World !! Completely Remodeled Thread !! - Treatise On The Topic Of Item Stealing (118 Supporters)

Mr_Philly · Feb 19, 2017

#MakeItHappen
#BringBackMyInferno

(+10000 supporters)

Blizzardgale · Feb 23, 2017

We're almost there everyone, so close to triple digits!

Blizzardgale · Mar 20, 2017

Maaagical thread revival
(Yes, I'm not letting this thread die lol, even if it is 2 days until necro)

StarchPlatinum · Apr 4, 2017

*bumping intensifies* Almost certain this is still a problem, not letting this thread fall into the necropost zone.

Blizzardgale · Apr 4, 2017

Potatoverse said: ↑

*bumping intensifies* Almost certain this is still a problem, not letting this thread fall into the necropost zone.
Click to expand...

Don't worry, I got reminders to update this thread every month until item locks or rules are implemented.
Thanks for the bump though!

kojirobin · Apr 4, 2017

Blizzardgale said: ↑

Congrats! You successfully finished a rant/ suggestion thread. If you completely and absolutely agree with everything I've said above, great! You're done. Please vote in the poll on your experiences, along with your support for this thread. But if you're still unsure, I'll be responding to criticisms and controversy to my ideas in the section below, as well as in the comment section.

1. Sorry, but Wynncraft has a strict no refund policy.

Response: Okay, I understand this policy wholeheartedly. Practically all of us have had accidents where we lost our items for good. The Wynncraft team can't magically bring our coveted items back from the dead, and it would be extremely easy to for players to lie about their lost items. However, taking this argument into the topic of item stealing is unacceptable. The item isn't gone, it's in another player's inventory! A more fitting phrase to describe this would be, "Finders keepers losers weepers," which has absolutely no correlation to a refund policy at all. Although you could argue that it mirrors real life losses, Wynncraft's rules have stated that the game is supposed to be geared towards a fun experience. This element is certainly not entertaining, and I would classify it as a scam, part of rule 8 of the Game/Forum rules.

=================================================================

2. People who dropped their items can say "you'll be banned" and start threatening the person that picked it up. This causes another problem of the person that dropped the item possibly getting out of hand and breaking rules themselves. It is just better to try to contact a mod for help, and mods will help out in these situations as they happen. If you wait for hours though there's not much we can really do. There's also no real way to verify who has the item.

Response: The problem with contacting mods is that many users do not know that one can request for help in these situations. It isn't listed in the rules at all, and the explanation of the scamming rule doesn't refer to items being stolen at all. The addition of this rule would allow more players to contact mods about these issues. Also, mods can be absent during a player's most desperate time of need. If a few hours elapse and mods just happen to not be on, then the player will have no hope of retrieving their items.

Concerning verification, I propose the idea of having screenshots of your equipment on you as proof of ownership. This was used by my friend in order to reclaim his mythic, and Moe_Ronickah accepted it as sufficient proof. It is certainly a bit tedious, but I'm sure many people would want to secure their more expensive items. If you're worried about people accusing each other after trading an item, mods could easily scroll back through chat logs to see who is the rightful owner.

=================================================================

3. It's just a poll, many Wynncraft players don't have a forum account and hardly anyone even loses their items to item stealing.

Response: A poll is representational of the Wynncraft community. I acknowledge that the current active Wynncraft playerbase consists of thousands of players, and forums users are part of the minority. However, you can't deny the fact that 26% of the users who voted have had to pay for their items! Fourteen people have even voted that they have had to pay for multiple items! Most of the forum users are high level players, but if the poll is accurate, it means that all the lower level players without a forum account will also encounter item stealing one day.

=================================================================

4. It was your own fault. If you drop an item and someone else picks it up, it's not yours anymore. They have the right to charge you for the item because it's now their item. If you didn't want to drop the item, you should have paid attention to your inventory. You didn't think anything was off when you looked in your inventory and found a full set of armor missing? If not, it was your fault. I have accidentally dropped valuable items before, and when I did, I just picked them back up after realizing that I had just dropped something that I wanted to keep. Pretty sure I would notice if I were missing two rows of hearts and my armor row, moving at a snail's pace, and dealing pitiful damage to mobs.

Response: While that is true, in highly tense situations this may not be the case. Let's say you are in a cramped area filled with a multitude of mobs, such as in Fantastic Voyage. Or perhaps grinding among players in a sea of un-identified items and emeralds. As you log back in, the accessory glitch activates and triggers the loss of a couple of skillpoints. This just happens to break the requirements for one of your valuable pieces of armor, which could also break the requirements of another piece. Now the questions is, do you rapidly search for the item among the masses or fight off all the remaining mobs?

Either way, there is a extremely high chance of death when you are on half of your maximum hp whilst being surrounded by a plethora of mobs. Now upon dying, another player in the vicinity picks up your lost gear and asks for a fee. Is that still rightfully finders keepers? You lost your items to a glitch, and you did not have the ability to casually pick up your dropped items. Although you can claim that you would accept your fate if the event ever arose, I doubt you would be complacent if you lost something that you spent stacks of le on, only to have it be resold to you for more than you bought it for.

Additionally, there is no way you can notice that you dropped one of your accessories unless the skill points are tied with your armor. A small drop in stats such as -3 intelligence, -1/4 mana regen, -70 water defense, will not make you suddenly realize that you just lost an accessory. Also don't argue that accessories are worthless and only for small bonuses, a maxed prism is worth 1.5 stacks!

=================================================================

5. If you have anymore points or criticisms against my idea that I have not addressed, please post a detailed reply and I will hopefully offer a prompt response.
Click to expand...

dis place isnt dark theme friendsly

Blizzardgale · Apr 4, 2017

Meister Stung said: ↑

dis place isnt dark theme friendsly
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come visit light land buddy

Turtlebomb · Apr 4, 2017

Blizzardgale said: ↑

I realize that this thread is extremely long since it aims at discussing all aspects of the suggestion. However, if you don't have time to read the whole thread simply read the section labeled: Suggestion. If you don't agree with it, then look at the Question and Responses section, where I cover almost all inquiries. (Yours will most likely be there) It would mean so much to me if you could vote in the poll as well. The poll runs on a double vote system. First you vote on support or no support, then you vote on your own experiences with item stealing.

Thank you for your time,
Blizzardgale

Alright, I am currently in quite an enraged state of mind, so my writing may be a bit biased and crude. A couple minutes ago I was equipping my experience armor for the DXP weekend. Unbeknownst to me, I had dropped my actual armor to make room for inventory space.

Another player happened to pass by and collected some of the items I had thrown, two of which were a 41 SP 2/4 stardust and a highly well-rounded Libra. Additionally, both had two Tier 5 Water powders on them. As you can imagine, I was ecstatic and the player said that we could meet at the Rodoroc bank for my items. However, in the midst of the trade, they stopped in the final check mark and exited out. I originally thought it was a misclick, but then they replied with, "It'll cost you." 11 le was the given price, and they then proceeded to sell it to me multiple times.

Now, some of you have probably formed opinions already; most likely, "blizzardgale shouldn't have dropped their items in the first place!" Now, I concede that it is partially my own fault, but I personally feel that I shouldn't be charged for my own item that I worked to acquire with my own time! Honestly, I can anticipate already that plenty of you will respond to this thread, "No Refund Policy." But please, take a second to imagine a similar event happening to you, and people only responding with, "It's your own fault." If you can put your mind into this perspective, surely you can see how the dilemma of item stealing needs to be addressed.

11 le wasn't too much in my case, but I was definitely not giving that hypocrite the satisfaction of having picked up someone's items and selling them back. A similar occurrence had happened to my friend about a month ago, where he dropped his thrundacrack. A player picked it up and demanded several stacks of le in order for the owner to receive the item back. Luckily, a mod was able to help in that instance, @Moe_Ronickah , which I felt did an exemplary job in dealing with that task. I offer my complements to you.

However, others are not so fortunate, including me. If you looked through the full conversation, you'll see that I chatted with a friend (the one with the thrundacrack) about reporting item stealing. Just as he had suspected, item stealing was not against the game rules. This is simply ludicrous in my opinion! Wynncraft rules directly state: "To make sure everyone has a great time in Wynncraft, every member of the community must follow these rules." A player losing their items and being forced to pay for them in order to retrieve it? That only causes misery, anger, and hatred upon the Wynncraft rules and community.

Additionally, imagine if a new player who joined the server was charged an le for a coveted legendary they dropped. Most likely, the player would be angry and confused at how such an act is tolerable on the server, in addition to not being able to pay for it. This paints a negative image on the community and makes many players who encounter item stealing leave within the first week, even though they've only seen a small minority of the entire server. Modifying the rules will significantly help the server and keep a more loyal fanbase. It's not only new players who are leaving the game, older ones are now leaving too after losing an item, since they can can carry an astronomical amount of value.

Therefore, I would like to propose an ammendment to the Game/forum Rules section of the Rules and Information, for the purpose of ensuring a better play experience for players.

16. Item Stealing
(Although players are held accountable for losing their own items, other players must return those items if they happen to collect them. Sufficient evidence must be provided in order for an item to be returned. Lost items without anyone finding them aren't able to be returned.)

Congrats! You successfully finished a rant/ suggestion thread. If you completely and absolutely agree with everything I've said above, great! You're done. Please vote in the poll on your experiences, along with your support for this thread. But if you're still unsure, I'll be responding to criticisms and controversy to my ideas in the section below, as well as in the comment section.

1. Sorry, but Wynncraft has a strict no refund policy.

Response: Okay, I understand this policy wholeheartedly. Practically all of us have had accidents where we lost our items for good. The Wynncraft team can't magically bring our coveted items back from the dead, and it would be extremely easy to for players to lie about their lost items. However, taking this argument into the topic of item stealing is unacceptable. The item isn't gone, it's in another player's inventory! A more fitting phrase to describe this would be, "Finders keepers losers weepers," which has absolutely no correlation to a refund policy at all. Although you could argue that it mirrors real life losses, Wynncraft's rules have stated that the game is supposed to be geared towards a fun experience. This element is certainly not entertaining, and I would classify it as a scam, part of rule 8 of the Game/Forum rules.

=================================================================

2. People who dropped their items can say "you'll be banned" and start threatening the person that picked it up. This causes another problem of the person that dropped the item possibly getting out of hand and breaking rules themselves. It is just better to try to contact a mod for help, and mods will help out in these situations as they happen. If you wait for hours though there's not much we can really do. There's also no real way to verify who has the item.

Response: The problem with contacting mods is that many users do not know that one can request for help in these situations. It isn't listed in the rules at all, and the explanation of the scamming rule doesn't refer to items being stolen at all. The addition of this rule would allow more players to contact mods about these issues. Also, mods can be absent during a player's most desperate time of need. If a few hours elapse and mods just happen to not be on, then the player will have no hope of retrieving their items.

Concerning verification, I propose the idea of having screenshots of your equipment on you as proof of ownership. This was used by my friend in order to reclaim his mythic, and Moe_Ronickah accepted it as sufficient proof. It is certainly a bit tedious, but I'm sure many people would want to secure their more expensive items. If you're worried about people accusing each other after trading an item, mods could easily scroll back through chat logs to see who is the rightful owner.

=================================================================

3. It's just a poll, many Wynncraft players don't have a forum account and hardly anyone even loses their items to item stealing.

Response: A poll is representational of the Wynncraft community. I acknowledge that the current active Wynncraft playerbase consists of thousands of players, and forums users are part of the minority. However, you can't deny the fact that 26% of the users who voted have had to pay for their items! Fourteen people have even voted that they have had to pay for multiple items! Most of the forum users are high level players, but if the poll is accurate, it means that all the lower level players without a forum account will also encounter item stealing one day.

=================================================================

4. It was your own fault. If you drop an item and someone else picks it up, it's not yours anymore. They have the right to charge you for the item because it's now their item. If you didn't want to drop the item, you should have paid attention to your inventory. You didn't think anything was off when you looked in your inventory and found a full set of armor missing? If not, it was your fault. I have accidentally dropped valuable items before, and when I did, I just picked them back up after realizing that I had just dropped something that I wanted to keep. Pretty sure I would notice if I were missing two rows of hearts and my armor row, moving at a snail's pace, and dealing pitiful damage to mobs.

Response: While that is true, in highly tense situations this may not be the case. Let's say you are in a cramped area filled with a multitude of mobs, such as in Fantastic Voyage. Or perhaps grinding among players in a sea of un-identified items and emeralds. As you log back in, the accessory glitch activates and triggers the loss of a couple of skillpoints. This just happens to break the requirements for one of your valuable pieces of armor, which could also break the requirements of another piece. Now the questions is, do you rapidly search for the item among the masses or fight off all the remaining mobs?

Either way, there is a extremely high chance of death when you are on half of your maximum hp whilst being surrounded by a plethora of mobs. Now upon dying, another player in the vicinity picks up your lost gear and asks for a fee. Is that still rightfully finders keepers? You lost your items to a glitch, and you did not have the ability to casually pick up your dropped items. Although you can claim that you would accept your fate if the event ever arose, I doubt you would be complacent if you lost something that you spent stacks of le on, only to have it be resold to you for more than you bought it for.

Additionally, there is no way you can notice that you dropped one of your accessories unless the skill points are tied with your armor. A small drop in stats such as -3 intelligence, -1/4 mana regen, -70 water defense, will not make you suddenly realize that you just lost an accessory. Also don't argue that accessories are worthless and only for small bonuses, a maxed prism is worth 1.5 stacks!

=================================================================

5. If you have anymore points or criticisms against my idea that I have not addressed, please post a detailed reply and I will hopefully offer a prompt response.

=================================================================

Sources:
https://forums.wynncraft.com/threads/game-forum-rules.111874/
Click to expand...

Couldn't you just suggest items you drop can't be picked up by other players? Like how loot dropped by a mob you kill can't be picked up by another player. It would solve issues of false claims of item theft, and overall be much easier to implement and enforce, since it's literally a game mechanic and not a rule written down somewhere.

PikaLegend · Apr 5, 2017

Really, I just dislike people who uses that kind of power and abuse it against you.

It is somewhat sad how not everyone can follow what's right sometimes. But it does make it a bit more interesting, if not also frustrating.

Make sure to be honest about dropped items, everyone!

Blizzardgale · Apr 17, 2017

:re said: ↑

Couldn't you just suggest items you drop can't be picked up by other players? Like how loot dropped by a mob you kill can't be picked up by another player. It would solve issues of false claims of item theft, and overall be much easier to implement and enforce, since it's literally a game mechanic and not a rule written down somewhere.
Click to expand...

First, sorry for such a late response. But yes! That's another great idea.
However, I don't think it'll be too easy to implement. Look at item locks, a fantastic idea, and hopefully one of Jumla's priorities, but it still hasn't been implemented!

Most ideas that we think are quick and easy almost never get added immediately. But the rule I have in mind can allow for a temporary, better solution until item locks are finally completed in some couple months. (or years) maybe decades

Turtlebomb · Apr 17, 2017

Blizzardgale said: ↑

First, sorry for such a late response. But yes! That's another great idea.
However, I don't think it'll be too easy to implement. Look at item locks, a fantastic idea, and hopefully one of Jumla's priorities, but it still hasn't been implemented!

Most ideas that we think are quick and easy almost never get added immediately. But the rule I have in mind can allow for a temporary, better solution until item locks are finally completed in some couple months. (or years) maybe decades
Click to expand...

To be honest, I think it would cause more trouble than it's worth. I've seen some pretty pointless flamewars about items— it would be better to just tell people to leave space in their inventory and maybe unbind drop until it's added, assuming it is ever added.

Lexwomy · Apr 17, 2017

XavierEXE said: ↑

I dropped my tailwind a while ago in Detlas due to the skill point glitch, back when it affected armour. Someone picked it up and demanded 2 stacks of le for him to give it back, money which I didn't and still don't have. Luckily, and bunch of people I know were in Detlas at the time and everyone backed me up until we guilted him to give it back for free. Shows how selfish some people can be :/
Click to expand...

helps when u have friends ^_^
unlike me :(

________________________________

Tylow said: ↑

I think I found the guy on the forums... please don't witch-hunt, I'm doing this so that Blizzardgale can get in contact with him and actually converse with him about the incident. Also there's a chance it's not him but I'm pretty sure.
https://forums.wynncraft.com/members/teunh2406.73339/
Click to expand...

also that's a completely different guy

Saya · Apr 18, 2017

rip dank theme

IceCreamTruck · Apr 22, 2017

The same thing happened to me I dropped both of my mythics without knowing and even worse a level 7 guy in detlas item buyered them all

Saya · Apr 22, 2017

make it dark theme friendly please

Blizzardgale · Apr 22, 2017

#BlamePoke said: ↑

make it dark theme friendly please
Click to expand...

I've tried to change text color to none. It's not working for some reason.

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World !! Completely Remodeled Thread !! - Treatise On The Topic Of Item Stealing (118 Supporters)

Have you ever been charged a fee for the return of your dropped items? Support or No Support?

No, I have never dropped items

No, I have always had a kind return

Yes, but only once

Yes, several times (1-5)

Yes, a multitude of times (5+)

Support

No Support

Undecided

Mr_Philly hi there HERO

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StarchPlatinum Back with a starchy vengence

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kojirobin ♧ the local (broke) emerald dealer VIP

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Turtlebomb idk VIP+

PikaLegend Shocking VIP+

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Lexwomy Lexwomy HERO

Saya you win at uwynn HERO

IceCreamTruck Dead Adventurer

Saya you win at uwynn HERO

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