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World What I Think Gavel's Biggest Issues Are

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by Aya, Jun 13, 2020.

?

Did you also get lost in a linear-designed province?

  1. Yeah

    15 vote(s)
    34.1%
  2. No

    16 vote(s)
    36.4%
  3. Yeah but I used Wynntils/minimap mods that helped me figure out where I am and where I should go

    13 vote(s)
    29.5%
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  1. Aya

    Aya Very Serious Gensokyo Journalist HERO

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    Note: Guys I fucked up, the third option in the pool is supposed to say "No but", not "Yeah but"

    Ok so after a new playthrough in which I did most of Gavel's quests and spent a fair time on it, I think I figured out why I don't like the level 40-80 section of Gavel a lot.
    This province is super disorienting, you can get lost very easily.
    Most of the quests rely on exploring a certain area to find specific points yet you aren't given actual information on where they are so you have to explore. The issue is that most of the time the points you have to visit are pretty hard to localize.
    For example the ogre camps for Clearing the Camps and Green Skinned Trouble are very similar and it is troublesome because you enter a camp and think "Ok this must be the right one wait where is the enemy I have to kill? Is this the right camp?"
    Another example is whatever the hell happened to Eye of the Storm's guiding capacities. When I did the quest I saw why people hate this quest, but the issue isn't exactly the storyline or anything but rather how badly it guides the player. I got lost like twice after the red ball puzzle because I didn't know where to go, then I checked the wiki and then noticed... maybe I could have skipped this part of the quest. After that I kind of knew what to do but the big issue with this quest is how absurdly bad it guides the player.

    Also another issue is how empty the areas feel honestly, yeah there are trees and that's basically it, there aren't many outstanding locations that you can use to say "Alright so now I'm here... that means Gelibord is over there" I think the important locations and caves should be a bit more visually outstanding, that will help orienting yourself. Also the pre-Cinfras areas feel really empty in terms of exploration, there barely are caves as far as I can recall, while on Wynn there is a new cave to explore every five seconds.
    I also believe the lack of a major town through these areas is also troublesome. I get that Gelibord, Olux and Lexdale are supposed to be in a similar situation to Nesaak, but Nesaak feels like an actual main city, while Gelibord, Olux and Lexdale feel more like Lusuco, Elkurn and stuff, towns that are there but don't really add much to the game other than being small safe havens.

    Also I may mention the fact there is also pretty much no reason to go to the elven towns. I can't recall having any reason to visit Aldorei and Eltom other than to do the quests. In fact I think I didn't even set foot on Efilim at any point of the playthrough. I get that elves don't like greed but I doubt they dislike people wanting the bare minimum to survive.

    So to sum up:
    Gavel's design is messy, it is very disorienting and some areas feel pointless to explore when Wynn has all the stuff Gavel lacks and way more.
    I think it is time for Gavel to get the remake treatment. Wynn is in a great status right now, but I can't say the same for that section of Gavel. Levels 80-100 are fine though.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2020
    NotFunny, YoshisWorld, Zelli and 6 others like this.
  2. That_Chudley

    That_Chudley Wynncraft Addict HERO

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    I agree with this.
    I also believe that a problem Gavel has is the over-abundance of quests in the level 70's.
    Too many of them are small, filler quests with low xp and aren't very fun, or sometimes they're just dead boring or anticlimactic (RoL).
    Each section of 10 levels (1-10, 11-20 etc.) generally has between 8-12 quests so that progressing through it is balanced. However, level 70-80 has over 20 quests.

    Let's look at a handful of quests from this region:

    Finding the light: Run back and forth endlessly. No puzzles. No combat. No bosses. No interesting mechanics.

    Eye of the Storm: Random lore comes out of nowhere, never to be mentioned again. Difficult to navigate the area. Lexdale is pointless. Out of place puzzle (although it's a cool puzzle).

    Acquiring Credentials: The ultimate 'meh' quest. If it wasn't in game, no-one would care. It's boring, involves running around constantly and causes over-saturation of level 74 quests.

    The Realm of Light: *Sighs... Taproot is intriguing and sets up this mini storyline. Finding the Light is boring, but ends with giving the player access to this cool realm, then finally, the final quest in this saga... Grind some mobs. Get another pointless, space-wasting quest helmet. Fight a boss. Done. No cutscenes. An empty realm. Boring and disappointing.

    The Ultimate Weapon: I could rant about this for years. The reward is WAAY too large. It's boring as hell, I mean, it's LITERALLY just grinding and nothing else. There's no puzzles,
    no unique bosses, no interesting lore, no interesting dialogue, no cool cutscenes, no challenge, no references to it later, NO POINT IN IT EXISTING. It also just adds to too many level 70's quests. I'm being 100% honest when I say it truly needs to be removed, deserves to be removed and blows my fricking mind that it is even in the game. Purge it from existence please.

    Aldorei's Secret Part I: Doing this quest the first time is kinda cool. But it has no replay-ability. It just comes across as bland and Aldorei isn't interesting in any way.


    Of course, there's always going to be weaker quests in a game - but I believe that most of the weakest ones are listed above. Plus, they are all in the same level region (in fact, within 6 level of each other!)

    As I previously mentioned, there are too many quests in this region, especially when you consider that Corrupted Dungeons appear at this time and give the player something else to do.

    This is by far the weakest section of the game and I hope 1.20 rectifies this :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2020
  3. Melkor

    Melkor The dark enemy of the world HERO

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    I think a large part of the problem is that all of the areas were made and released at the same time, so they often feel the same, as the dev team tried to make them all using the same brush. The fact that a lot of these areas contain no major landmarks, towns or quests leads to you getting turned around and lost. Olux is a great example, it's a massive swamp with virtually no landmarks outside of a small radius around the city itself. The only landmarks I can think of outside that radius don't really give an indication as to where the city is, or anything else. In the other direction, the forest of light suffers the same problem, but possibly even worse. Gelibord and Lexdale both suffer from what I would argue is a worse problem; they have a lot of landmarks that are more or less the same. I don't know which giant manor I'm outside of without going in and looking around. I don't know what weird gathering of structures I'm at, it's all just a bunch of trees as far as the eye can see.

    And that's another problem I think; all the areas were designed the same. Lots of trees, with an annoying number of rivers running through. The areas are only separated by the style of the trees and the color of the grass. In Wynn, there's a myriad of different features in each biome that generally gives you a really good idea of where you are and where the edge of it is. In areas that are similar, there are a lot of landmarks that tell you where stuff is, that all look very different. I don't think there's a single point in Wynn that you could drop me in that would take me more than a few moments to find a town. In Gavel I feel like I could wander for ages without any clue.
     
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  4. Aya

    Aya Very Serious Gensokyo Journalist HERO

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    I WANT TO DO AN IMPORTANT CORRECTION
    The town I never set foot on was Efilim, not Eltom, I did touch Eltom!
    The fact that I forgot about its name further proves how irrelevant the town is though
     
  5. Druser

    Druser ele defs don't matter HERO Featured Wynncraftian

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    Efilim has the best Gavel quest though...
     
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  6. Aya

    Aya Very Serious Gensokyo Journalist HERO

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    Well yeah but I keep forgetting about it
    Also during that run I skipped that quest
    Mostly because I didn't remember it being too good but yeah it is a good one
    Best Gavel quest however is heavily debatable when Dwarves & Doguns and Memory Paranoia are a thing

    The thing is, the quest isn't even that big of a deal (doesn't follow any big story such as WynnExcavation, Reincarnation, etc) and the town has pretty much nothing else to offer due to how bad most of the content in the Light Forest is
     
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  7. Druser

    Druser ele defs don't matter HERO Featured Wynncraftian

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    Eh, I think Memory Paranoia is overrated, but fair point about D&D.
     
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  8. Dr Zed

    Dr Zed Famous Adventurer HERO

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    The main issue with Gavel is that the main storyline is all over the place, doesn't even conclude, has lackluster gameplay, and the player has no real reason to be there.

    Unlike Gavel, the player has a real reason to be in Wynn; they're a solider tasked with fighting the corruption. Nice and simple. Though the reason why the player goes to Gavel is because... they wanted to get a pirate treasure that never gets brought up again or has any impact and they just flounder around from there doing fetch quest around fetch quest, and getting empty promises of a dungeon boss at the end of them at best. Then you finally learn about the Decay and the Realm of Light and how it's so SO important because it's also tied with the corruption. After more fetch quests, you finally get to the Realm of Light and guess what? More grinding and fetching and not just one, but TWO quest helmets to sit in your bank for eternity. Because you know, it's not like they've been trying to get rid of quest helmets in other quests or anything....

    And just like the rest, your grand prize is an empty promise of a boss and that absolutely nothing has changed. The Realm of Light nor the Decay is never brought up again and you fight a witch, some dwarves and doguns, and an eye that's actually the final boss. Memory Paranoia and other quests relating to the main lore could have been about Mr. Caritat eating gravel off the road and it would have still been as relevant and interesting. Don't even get me started on Eye of the Storm either. I know they've tweaked that quest, but that whole area doesn't deserve to even exist.

    All of this wouldn't be that bad if it wasn't for what I said earlier; they're just glorified fetch quests. There aren't any challenging bosses, because again, no dungeons, and the quest bosses are absolute jokes. The puzzles aren't interesting or require much thought (with the exception of ???). The Ultimate Dagger quest is the second biggest "fuck you" fetch quest of them all; the first being the Realm of Light because it has somehow more fetching and unlike the Ultimate Dagger, it's supposed to be actually IMPORTANT! I don't care if we get LE from it; it's just insulting, lazy game design. As for the other quests like Aldorei, they just go nowhere or aren't interesting.

    So overall, it feels like Gavel has no real reason to exist besides to set up a flimsy, overused "Light vs. Dark" premise that it couldn't even bother finishing nor was needed in the first place.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2020
  9. CountBurn

    CountBurn Hackysack? HERO

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    man I must be stupid or something because I just continued playing through gavel and didn't even notice how flawed it was
     
  10. Sg_Voltage

    Sg_Voltage 1.18 was the best update, don't @me CHAMPION

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    Bit of a hot take but I actually love the ultimate weapon. I used to play a MapleStory a lot so that's probably why but still...

    That aside, you're completely right about Gavel sucking, I know people defend the end game Gavel but even then it's still kinda sucks compared to Corkus or end game Wynn (Pre SE, SE is kinda boring since it's just a straight line). That being said I think the worst offender in all of Gavel is actually the city of Cinfras. It's super massive and also so empty, there's a massive airport which only takes you to one place, the guild hall is essentially pointless since it's just for making guilds and nothing else (At least add daily quests there ffs), there's a clock which just pisses me off every time I see it since I had to grind that shit like 8 times for the full set and on top of it all, it's also just kinda ugly and poorly designed. Also I still can't believe this game has any quest helmets at all, even the breathing helmet is kind of stupid, but at least it has some use.
     
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  11. Dr Zed

    Dr Zed Famous Adventurer HERO

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    Huh, Cinfras was my favorite town build-wise. It's actual content was just meh. That airport is huge though, I kept getting lost in there.
     
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  12. dr_carlos

    dr_carlos Morph Gang!

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    Without the Wynncraft map I think it would have taken me a entire month longer to complete gavel.
    The quest book has most locations in co-ordinates in it, but sometimes you need the wiki.
    I personally liked Eye of the Storm, but found it detached from the storyline like the rest of the Kander forest.
    Also, don't get me started on the Light Forest/Elven stuff.
    Apart from having Shattered Minds (amazing quest btw), it is completely useless.
    It looks nice and has a few quests, but lacks interesting content.
    For example, Aldorei has an entire quest to unlock it and then slaps you in the face with another quest about some Togak guy?
    Honestly I don't see the point, I only went back once to get some amulet that has lots of health regen.
    The only real thing in Aldorei is the Uth shrine, which is also in Corkus right where you kill the Golden Avias.
    Why cross the map to do it there when its so far away from the Forgery...
    Anyway, overall I liked gavel but found there is nothing to do apart from corrupted dungeons and mostly usesless quests.
     
  13. Samsam101

    Samsam101 There is nothing to really be Pissed off about... CHAMPION

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    might as well just make gavel into one gigantic hedge maze
     
  14. Emogla3

    Emogla3 az is bad 2: the movie VIP

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    Necroposting is against the rules, I believe this thread needs to be locked now.
     
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  15. dr_carlos

    dr_carlos Morph Gang!

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    Sorry, I didn't check the date of the thread - it needs to be locked.
     
  16. CountBurn

    CountBurn Hackysack? HERO

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    is exploring a bad thing?
     
  17. TrapinchO

    TrapinchO the observer of the wiki VIP+ Featured Wynncraftian

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    no
     
  18. Aya

    Aya Very Serious Gensokyo Journalist HERO

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    No
    However, getting less lost in an area called The Canyon of the LOST than in an area that is just a plain forest with multiple big structures is a bit of an issue
    Exploring is cool but when detaching from the path for 5 seconds makes you ask "Where am I?", it might have some issues
     
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