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Progression Silent Expanse Feedback

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by Novalescent, Dec 9, 2019.

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  1. Novalescent

    Novalescent Wynncraft Systematic Recreation Developer VIP+

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    So, the Silent Expanse came out. Overall, I'd say it was a good addition to the game. I'm going to focus my feedback specifically on the new region and quests and such. If I need to, I'll address the other things later, but this is the most important one to me.


    For this one, I'm gonna have to take the rose-tinted glasses off and focus on both the good and the bad of SE. I'll still keep my feedback constructive of course, as I know going on entire rage rants will help no one. I also know that some people may not agree with my opinions, and I am open to hearing other peoples thoughts about it.


    This is also a very long post, so I’ve split them all into respective pieces and done my best to add in respective spacing to make it much more readable. Hopefully you can find the section you want/need to read in all of these words.

    The Region

    The new Silent Expanse region itself is absolutely phenomenal. I love all of the terrain and the structures. A lot of love had to have went into making this. Everything has a horror sense to it, from the mobs to the buildings to even Lutho! The beginning region of SE felt a bit empty? But when I got further into the next areas, they seemed more alive.

    The Ruins that you enter in feel incredibly desolate, which I think they're supposed to feel that way. They feel just as an empty, ruined, ancient city should feel like and I love it all.
    The Eyeball forest is alright for the most part, not my favorite, but the theme of all of the watchful eyes watching you is unique. I wasn't exactly a fan of it but it was still fairly cool.
    The Toxic Wastes is probably my favorite. I am a big fan of the toxic-theme they went for this. And all of the mobs in there look incredible and challenging.
    The Void Valley was also sorta meh for me but I liked it in the end. The Void Holes were especially fun to play with.
    I wish the Portal to Dern had something more besides a quest. Maybe a boss altar? (Or did I miss one?)

    The mobs in the area were also challenging, and I loved that. It actually took me some effort for a few to knock them down. The mobs truly made the zones feel like endgame zones, as they were really challenging. Oh, and we can't forget the models for all of the armor stand mobs and how they look amazing.

    Overall, good job on the region, and good job on the music! It sounds really nice and I feel each zone's music was very unique. My favorite one was probably the Portal to Dern music, as when you were walking up to it for the first time I really felt like this was the end of the road.

    The Quests

    I haven't done Olmic Rune yet, so I'll probably post on it later.

    All of the Silent Expanse quests I've done are awesome. I'll go over them individually.

    • The "A Journey Further" questline is probably the most horrific questline in terms of story I've seen in Wynncraft. For most of Wynncraft, quests usually had a happy or a somewhat fair ending to them. But this took me in for a straight curveball. With literally EVERYONE in the party besides you dying, the first two deaths being actually terrifying from my point of view, it was quite surprising. It was also really fun travelling with Aledar throughout Silent Expanse and seeing all of these cool regions with him. While he was alive of course... Rest in peace Aledar... Where the hell were you Tasim?
      I've been hearing a few things about the Escort parts being bad. For me, the escorts went fairly smoothly and I was able to understand most of where I was supposed to go.
      The only weird parts for me in A Journey Further was the beginning when I had to fight that first miniboss to get into SE. The first time I fought it (The time when you can't harm it), I was solely confused at first, and the room overall was cramped so it wasn't really fun. It took me a while to figure out why I couldn't harm it. It was also in the stomach of the worm. The quest kind of bugged out for me and the lava didn't lower anymore. And when I switched servers, the lava didn't even rise.

    • The "A Point of No Return" was the most UNIQUE and probably now my favorite quest ever in Wynncraft. The mechanics of it were also super unique, having to switch places with your soul and such. I can't really think of much to say about this quest besides "it was super cool" as I can't find the words to describe how good it was.
      For confusing parts, I'd say when I got to the parkour sections, it took me awhile to figure out what was going on. And when I was trying to leave peaceful Lutho, the first time I got knocked back I thought I missed something. When I kept trying I realized that I just had to keep going. I'd say maybe try to make that a bit more obvious?

    • Finally, "A Hunter's Calling" felt like ??? part 2. Obviously, I was too lazy to do the clues myself and looked up a guide for 60% of the quest (Sorry...), but when I got to the locations they made sense. A Hunter's Calling in my opinion felt like the true means to an end. It felt like the final quest of Silent Expanse and end game to every level. It had you travelling around the world, revisiting old locations and spots, allowing you to relive the old memories. It felt sorta nostalgic.
      Probably the biggest twist on the quest was doing the viewpoint of the bad guy, which was very interesting to see all of these events should they have come to pass. And the final fight was actually very challenging, and I had to bring out all of the stocks for it. I did feel kind of bad for killing Tasim and Aledar though…
      I say that this felt like a true endgame quest because not only does it give a pretty good DPS armor piece that you can put onto any set, it unlocks "Hunted Mode" which does feel like endgame content in a sense. I probably won't use it though as I don't really want to risk losing items. I'd say maybe having some sort of toggle mode where you can fight other players safely without losing gear. It'd definitely make me want to try it out.
      Only had two problems with this quest: Firstly was the Corkus part, where you had to get a battery and a rock. At first, I thought you had to start the catapult via your own electromagic, but I had to read the questbook to know that there was a battery around here somewhere. And even then, it took me a while to find it. I'd recommend having the dialogue mention a battery or something, because I don’t believe it did.
      And also, the Detlas cutscene start is literally in some random spot in the barracks. It makes no sense... Please change this to be maybe like the center of Detlas and not just some random spot. If I had not used a guide, I would've never guessed it.
    Of course, I'll get around to judging the Olmic Rune later.


    The Dungeon (Eldritch Outlook)

    So up to this point, I was enjoying Silent Expanse for the most part. Everything had been fun and refreshing to do, and invoked a challenge of some sort that is worthy of endgame. Unfortunately, this is where Silent Expanse faltered a bit.

    I'm gonna be honest: Eldritch Outlook was alright. The Eye was interesting, but the sections before that were probably the best parts of the entire dungeon. I want to touch the two most important areas of the dungeon that I feel need to be taken a look at again.

    • The Parkour. Now personally for me, the parkour was fine and I understood it well. But, some people just have trouble with depth perception and therefore missed the jumps a lot. And it gets harder because the light gets further the more you progress. The first time I did EO we had to wait a very long time for 2 people because they couldn't handle the parkour. They mainly got mad because they felt like they were gonna hit it but in reality they missed, and since it's barrier parkour you don't know exactly where you messed up. Now, I wouldn't say to make it normal parkour, but rather make it so the light remains fairly close to you while doing the parkour. That way you have much better depth perception and don't have to judge from 50 blocks below you.

    • The Mob Path. Just Horse run I guess. Should this be changed though? I don’t know, I think it’s fine.

    • The Boss. The boss was without a doubt is the most interesting boss in Wynncraft. Most of the fight I do actually enjoy, BUT there's a few crushing factors that lower the quality of it. I’ll start with the bad, and end with the good.

      • The lag of the fight was quite bad for me. It was mainly due to all of the particles going off from everyone's spell. And the Eye's laser was also an FPS killer for me. Even though a /particles command exists and I did use it, I still lagged pretty badly. Also, there were so many spells going off on both sides I couldn't tell what was going on due to the particle blindness. I plan to address particles later in a much more formal post.

      • The layout of the boss room is kind of weird. There's only one solid pathway to fight the boss, and literally everything the boss casts comes right down that pathway. It's incredibly narrow and wouldn't be a problem if I could see when a spell is about to be casted.

      • The fight was a bit too chaotic. From what I saw, there was lasers, circles exploding, holes opening, the eye eating people, Wretches. From my standpoint, the telegraphing of the abilities weren't that good. I was in F5 most of the time so I could see the laser, but others couldn't see it and therefore got wiped. I think widening the laser's line and/or adding a sound to it, if not added yet, would help. There were also these circle explosions that occurred that I never even noticed until I did it with a three man group. They weren't really telegraphed well either in my opinion. The big gaping hole I didn't even see its telegraphing. All of these things, mixed together with the mesh of spells from other players, and I couldn't tell what was happening. And from what I could tell, there was never a global cool down on any of these. As far as I know these 4 things could all happen at once, which is a bit hectic. And of course, right now it scales in rate of spell casts the more players there are. Now obviously a party would need to strategize a bit more, but it's hard to see what's going on with the spell spam.

      • The last thing I want to talk about are the Wretches. From what I've read on the HERO Beta Feedback, it was the most controversial mechanic in the fight, and for good reason. I think I can comfortably say that mechanics wise, the fight is simple to understand and simple to master given practice. But probably the main reason why it can't be soloed are the Wretches, as they are a solid DPS barrier. If you don't kill them within 7 seconds, about 90% of your max HP is drained, which for most means an instakill. There is really nothing else you can do to prevent it besides "kill it quickly!" Those who don't have good gear won't be able to kill the Wretches in time before the 7 seconds. And since there's no indicator of when they're about to spawn, you can't really prepare for it. And assuming that most players will take at most .75 seconds to react and .5 to begin attacking, that's already more than one second lost.
        For me, it's a feelsbadmoment. I feel like it isn't fair that the only reason I can't solo it is not because of skill level, it's because of DPS level. I don't even care that alone, killing the boss would take a long freaking time to do, but I feel like that adding a DPS barrier to the fight doesn't feel good. And yes, I get it that you're supposed to do it with a group, and I support this concept. In fact, I’ve been wanting true group endgame content for a long time and I was excited to finally see it. However, I feel the Wretches are the wrong step in this direction.
        I’ve worked on a ton of bosses for Minecraft. In my time doing these bosses, I’ve learned that the blatant truth about any Minecraft boss fight is that it can be soloed unless you add some solid player lock onto the fight. I'm sure if I had high enough stats I could solo it, and others could probably say the same. I'd say the best way to make a boss "unsoloable" is to make it require high amounts of skill. Of course, most likely it will still be soloed, but at least then you feel like you won because of skill and not because of stats, and it will still open the door to players who dare try to do it solo too instead of purely locking off the idea of doing it.

      • Now that I’ve covered my concerns and negatives, I can end off on some high notes :D. Firstly, the phase transitions are really cool. I like the laser phase and the falling eyes phase transitions a lot. I feel the falling eyes can be a bit harder though. Maybe a faster rate of falling eyes? I usually stand in one spot and don't move much at all unless there's an eye about to fall on me.

      • The abilities themselves, besides the Wretches, are also really neat. I love the laser idea, though I wish it wasn’t a magma cube blob. There are a multitude of things to look out for and prepare. Even though the fight may be super chaotic with a ton of players, I think in a smaller group of 5 players or such, the fight is much more fun and much more manageable.

      • I also like, how I said, that the fight basically requires a group. I’ve always wanted to see group endgame content and now we finally have it. I feel with time, groups of people who do EO will have much more communication and preparation. Designating people to fight the boss, assigning positions, putting people on duties such as watching out for and killing the Wretches, I think it’ll be fantastic given time. I do feel the boss is hard for a lot of players right now (It’s hard for me only due to LAG), but players will adapt and the fight will be mastered to the last mechanic.
    So that's it for the dungeon itself. The last thing I want to talk about the dungeon is the rewards and unlocking the Portal to Dern. From my standpoint, EO is a one-and-done deal. It feels like another Fallen Factory in the sense of you only do it for the dungeon merchant. I don't feel like the XP reward you get from EO feels either. I got about 1.4M from my first run, which is alright I guess. I think it’d feel better if for your first completion of EO you got a huge amount of XP, maybe like 5M, then the rest of your completion runs you get your 1.4M. I also can't find a lot of use for the dungeon items...? These things make me feel like the dungeon itself doesn't exactly reward you enough in terms of gear. Now lorewise, beating the Eye is pretty darn awesome and I like that a lot. But the rewards don't exactly make me want to do the dungeon again. For the accumulation of the endgame journey and having gone through everything, for leveling up from level 1 to 102 or so and doing most if not all of the most challenging content in the entire game and doing this one final challenge with a large group, I really hoped that the Dungeon would reward me for finally making it to the end of my journey. But for me, it really didn't. Personally, none of the items suit me and even if they did, I have to put together a large group to do the dungeon every time, at least 4 times. 12 times just to get all of the T12 tools, which by itself is absurd. I feel like it would have been more satisfying to be able to buy absolutely unique items. Possibly the first and only way to get T7 powders, or maybe even the very first Darkness items. For me, the only reason I'd ever do it again is to unlock the Portal to Dern to do a Hunter's Calling which yields a much more desirable reward, or if a friend needed help.

    A concern I have is I feel once SE dies down, EO won't be ran as much anymore, and some players may be softlocked out of content, right now the content being A Hunter's Calling. I understand why this is the case, but locking content and future content behind what is essentially Wynncraft's first raid boss is kind of weird.

    Conclusion

    Although the dungeon had its flaws, Silent Expanse still turned out very good in the end. It felt like true endgame content which many people have been asking for for years now. I'm very happy with how most things turned out and I'm excited to see what the next big update will be. So keep it up Content Team!
     
  2. seeksery

    seeksery Wybel Photographer HERO

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    Eee it's 90% of your current hp
    It can't actually kill you unless you're below 10 hp
     
  3. Sg_Voltage

    Sg_Voltage For Legal Reasons, My Last Custom Title Was a Joke HERO

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    That's honestly my biggest problem with the dungeon. If it weren't required to do a hunters calling and get to the Dern portal, I would be alright with the boss, but I just can't get over the fact that beating a raid boss is a requirement for progression. Dungeons should come at the end of quests, not before.

    Also, if they want it to be a group dungeon they really need to make the parkour easier because right now there's a problem where people who are fast need to wait for the slower people and it sucks. All they need to do to fix the problem is add midway checkpoints for each quarter (or the fourth at the very least) but waiting for a party which you need to beat the boss sucks.

    Anyways, this is a really nice write up. I can't say I completely agree with you on everything (I don't really like the region that much) but it's always nice to see other peoples perspectives.
     
  4. Shots

    Shots A Masochist of the Jungle HERO

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    It's mostly because you can get back into the area via the same spot. Thus, if it were out in the open say, at the item identifier, your chances of accidentally waltzing into a boss fight are pretty high. However, I do agree that the spot in the barracks makes no sense. While it does make sense that it's in the barracks itself, it doesn't make that much sense to be in some random specific room that is never mentioned nor implied.
     
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  5. Sg_Voltage

    Sg_Voltage For Legal Reasons, My Last Custom Title Was a Joke HERO

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    If they changed the first stage to be talking to a poster put up by the crew like in 1000 meters under where it tells you to meet them in the barracks the start would make a lot more sense. Probably a easy fix too.

    Also, not completely related but the dark and light elements are really, really dumb. Dark should be the lack of elements and light should be something like the excess of every element. Also, the whole process of imbuing your character with light energy? (or maybe purging your dark energy) is way too easy. No suggestion on how to fix one though.
     
  6. Shots

    Shots A Masochist of the Jungle HERO

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    I was referring to A Hunter's Calling, but I guess that's a neat idea for A Journey Beyond to.
     
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  7. Sg_Voltage

    Sg_Voltage For Legal Reasons, My Last Custom Title Was a Joke HERO

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    Oh, lol. That's my bad. I haven't gotten that far yet but it's nice to know there's a boss once I go to Detlas.
     
  8. Cosomos

    Cosomos Well-Known Adventurer

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    That parkour does need a nerf there was some guy who said he tried for 4 hours...
    it is not really fun or something you can improve much at, you just get lucky sometimes...
    The Parkour has 4 Levels:
    First, one was kind of fun and entertaining
    Second, one was a bit more challenging, but still fun
    Third, was annoying and hard but do able and a good finisher
    Forth, is like that secret extra level that is there for the pro's and everyone else skips

    I was fine with everything until that level when I realised I was struggling on the forth jump...
    Please reduce the length of that forth level, if you don't want to reduce the difficulty.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
  9. Abstriction

    Abstriction Imperial bois OwO VIP+

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    I feel like most of the SE quests are contribed and boring, the first time, it wasn't surprising. But by the 5th time I've done it, I wanted to bang my head into the wall over and over again, almost none of the new Lv. 100 quests are "good" by any means, it's like they wanted nobody to read the dialogue, but made it unskippable so you have to force yourself to read it, maybe if there was a main storyline, I would give a fuck about the characters in the said quests?