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Guilds Rural Player Discrimination Aka How To Fix Sniping

Discussion in 'General Suggestions' started by Ascended Kitten, Jun 30, 2020.

  1. hora6112/gaidg

    hora6112/gaidg hora6112 HERO

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    Also, would it be possible for a mod to delete the spam responses on this thread? I feel like we can have a genuinely healthy discussion, regardless of allegiance (although that does allow us to have different perspectives), but the spam drowns out our serious discussion
     
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  2. Pontosaurus

    Pontosaurus aledar cart manufacturer HERO

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    what guild made you dislike "sweaty guilds" so much lmao

    edit: i thought id be actually helpful, i think the people you have experienced in the guild community is an extreme minority and not all of us are so focused on "using you to take other territories"
    if you'd take the time to get to know people in the guild community and not just disregard us as toxic sweaty pricks who only care about territories and money, i think you'd maybe find a lot of people you'd enjoy.
     
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  3. DeathLucifer

    DeathLucifer Well-Known Adventurer HERO

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    Yea yea sure you do :flushed:
     
  4. AlphaVaithex

    AlphaVaithex Leader of Bellum Axioma, fighting hate since 2019

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    There couldn't be a better fix to that issue than this statement here, folks. And not only would this idea as a whole be tailored towards the guilds owning territories at this moment, but it wouldn't give guilds any time whatsoever to defend their newly claimed territory, even if they managed to claim it. Therefore, that system is not fair.

    Look, I get where you're coming from with this. It really does suck that the current system is bugged and biased towards those with good connection or special buttons. There will come a day when this is fixed, but removing this timer would destroy the system entirely.

    ... think about how much of a stress it would be to reclaim your own territory after another guild took it, if you don't have time to put down defenses. I'm only asking you to think.
     
    TheNotoriousTNG and DeathLucifer like this.
  5. XeraAndromeda

    XeraAndromeda Xera von Nemract, 1st Empress of Nemract VIP

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    get me out please
     
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  6. AmbassadorArt

    AmbassadorArt Protesting bad changes since 2019 VIP+

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    I'm not arguing that subguilds ruin any progress midraid. But if and only if this suggestion goes thru, it will allow the landholding guild to patch up the damage within a couple of minutes. THEN they would ruin progress midraid
     
  7. Kitcalibur

    Kitcalibur Tactically Dumbfounding VIP+

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    "ping doesnt mean much"

    yall havent played league or overwatch then lmao. ping matters more than skill when theres such an extreme difference in some cases, including my own. the difference between 100 ping and 10 is absurd.

    and bro like ;;;;; idk what to tell you but i snipe better than most / pho bc i use the raw power of hot pockets
     
  8. WithTheFish

    WithTheFish Moderator Staff Member Moderator HERO

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    Alright, let's all stay civil here, okay? Discussing guilds and improvements to them is perfectly fine, but being rude to other people isn't, so let's try to stay calm here.

    I've cleaned up this thread a bit too from useless responses, and moved it to the general suggestions section if that's alright, as it is a suggestion. (but I can move it back if I somehow misread the point of this thread)
     
  9. Carrie

    Carrie Well-Known Adventurer HERO

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    Alex makes a great point when he mentions Wynn is all about numbers. Every single alliance that had ever thrived had more numbers. Luna had some tough guilds even towards the end, but Terra out numbered us. Terra fell because everyone LEFT IT. They lost their numbers. I think Coa2.0 has more guilds than Artemis right now or a similar amount, but we have more players and have access to more subguild oppertunities.... But you guys can use subguilds too... And you do. And if you really wanted to you probably could do a decent amount if damage with your numbers, but instead its hard to do without the numbers PURELY because of sniping. You guys have the advantage in raids because
    1.) Wars are on our territories are on your terms, not ours
    2.) You can snipe territories being fed wasting both defending guilds time
    3.) You can use subguilds and multiple guilds in general against one guild and have a SEVERE advantage should their alliance not reaponse quickly
    4.) You could wipe a guild purely because they have no captains on

    Basically we need a fix to balance it. I think its an alright temporary solution... Unless they wanna yaknow revamp guilds as a whole??? Hahaha jk... Unless?
     
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  10. hora6112/gaidg

    hora6112/gaidg hora6112 HERO

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    I don't think this is the case. Let's say the attackers gave up counter-sniping all together, (which wouldn't even have to be the case because it would be possible to trick the alliance that is defending. If you notice that they are taking the territories out of cooldown immediately, you can respond to that by sending counter-snipers to that guild first, since you know it's going to be claimable quickly after it's taken. Maybe we'll even end up right back where we are, but a change is worth trying).

    However, after that tangent, if the attackers give up sniping all together, that means they can devote 100% of their players to the offense. Defenders not only will be late to respond (since the attackers control when the attacks start), but once they do respond they have to wait until the cooldown from enemy guilds is through before they can start to attack.

    Additionally, defenders have to allocate at least 5-10 players to snipe from their allies, while the attackers can keep 100% of their players on the offense, chewing through territories, blitzkrieg style. This change will make it harder to wipe individual guilds that you target, yes, but it won't make it harder to wipe the alliance itself.

    If the attackers are able to outpace the defenders throughout the map, the attackers will win over time. However, like I said previously, this is only possible when the attackers have more players. There is no RNG, there is no location, it's all about timing, staying organized, and numbers.


    If a guild has the coordination, resources, players, and devotion to pull out 3 subguilds while they're being attacked, they should be able to reclaim their land. If the guild attacking them has more than 4 players warring, then they should use subguilds as well. If not, they shouldn't be able to win.

    Having more players, and managing those players accordingly, is the key to guild wars, and that isn't even what we're arguing to change here
     
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  11. Haisay

    Haisay The Black Reaper HERO

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    You say we're advocating for this because it helps our cute sub guilds, but you're advocating against it because it doesn't help you guys, the difference between the two sides is one relies on communication and strategy and one relies on being closer to the server host. This also probably won't change much, it'll just make territory sniping a bit more balanced, not perfect, but it's better than what we have now and I have yet to see a better solution. I also feel like going after defended terrs is better than taking feeder terrs for a raid anyways since if it becomes overwhelming there are other things artemis can do to keep the situation under control like defending high or something and coming back to the territory after the raid. Just my opinion tho, I don't know much about being on the offensive.
     
  12. AmbassadorArt

    AmbassadorArt Protesting bad changes since 2019 VIP+

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    I'm not being rude. I'm just being very strongly opinionated and challenging other peoples opinions. I'm not insulting anyone, or calling names. Though I am getting annoyed becuase of things like

    this. I never said Ping doesnt mean much. I'm saying its an issue that affects each side, everyone, in every online competitive game and therefore is not the trump-all factor. Coordination and recources wins, to an extent, but not with a lopsided advantage this change would cause
     
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  13. Photor

    Photor Marchionesss of the Foxes HERO

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    Ah I understand now, I apologize. But I would still have to disagree.
    I agree in the sense that this will give an advantage to the defender. I wont hide that. Its just it would put overall less strain on the server, and still allows for competition.
    Theres a million strategies I can think of that an attacker can use to garner an advantage, and all of this is at the expense of the defender having a disadvantage. I think this is a new way to introduce strategy in coordinating your members. Its already hard enough coordinating who is where in what guild so you can be efficient, now imagine trying to coordinate snipers even more with subguilds on top of trying to predict the enemies moves. Thats strategy to me.

    Also, I'm entirely open to having a nice discussion about this on discord so we dont need to deal with the off topic stuff on here, but thats completely up to you, I just want to understand an attacker's perspective better, as well as giving you insight into a defender's.
     
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  14. Asthae

    Asthae ... HERO

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    stop sweating guys smh my head
     
  15. AmbassadorArt

    AmbassadorArt Protesting bad changes since 2019 VIP+

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    I'm not advocating against it because it won't help us. It would eviscerate us. I was also giving a respectible technical explanation that this suggestion would quicken the pace of territories being taken, which this server can barely handle anyways. Maybe y'all shouldnt be clicking 68 times per second just to get a territory back.

    @Photor No amount of coordination will be able to combat the consequence of this suggestion going through. The landholding guild, without a cooldown period, could instantly take back the terriroties before Motobot or the Warmaps could pick it up. There would be near zero time for us to react. It would take away a strategy actually; watching the warlogs to see what subguild takes where and send a sniper force to them. By the time we get there, the landholding guild would have it back and there would be nothing we could do. I wish i had thought of these examples earlier, perhaps my point is clearer now.
     
  16. DeathLucifer

    DeathLucifer Well-Known Adventurer HERO

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    Alex this breaks it, So what if they can pull 3 guilds attacking all of them then turning all cds on it makes it so the attacker can't even stop it at least rn if a terr is sniped the attacker can tell allies to cover or even finish the war and move to cover themselves. it makes no sense to make it so a guild can reclaim instantly
     
  17. hora6112/gaidg

    hora6112/gaidg hora6112 HERO

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    What? You misunderstood the suggestion.

    When a guild takes a territory from another guild, that territory is put into a 180 second cooldown, where no other guild can attack it.

    The cooldown is in place so that you have time to actually defend your territory + not just get instantly attacked the moment you took it.

    This command is only able to be used by the guild that took the territory, no other guild. Under any other circumstance, it would just put your guild at a disadvantage, because you could just have that territory be attacked again.

    I'm not suggesting that the cooldown be removed, just that a guild has the option to control how long the cooldown is.

    A captain would never cede the territory if they wanted to actually keep the land, it would purely be if they wanted to give it up to someone else
     
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  18. Haisay

    Haisay The Black Reaper HERO

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    "I'm not advocating against it because it won't help us. It would eviscerate us." same difference "Maybe y'all shouldnt be clicking 68 times per second just to get a territory back." you guys are doing the same thing, see Mr Merchant
     
  19. AmbassadorArt

    AmbassadorArt Protesting bad changes since 2019 VIP+

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    But you dont see us making the ping excuse when we lose a snipe battle. you dont see us proposing a suggestion or citing ping for our failures, even though your side is the one citing ping and you're not even a failure. you're a strong alliance, who would be the only one benefitting from this

    Also it's not the same difference; if it was a suggestion that perhaps added a challenge to us, i wouldn't be opposiing it so avidly. But I think y'all are severely underscoring the kinds of buffs this would give to defending guilds. It would be murderous for our ability to do lasting damage because then we couldnt even use motobot or the maps, because the land would be gone the instant it became available.
     
  20. DeathLucifer

    DeathLucifer Well-Known Adventurer HERO

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    Yea we do the same thing that is just how the system works rn and this won't fix it but make it worse to the point that 1 big guild can undo any try and removing them in easy 10 minutes