Revert Str / Dex Change

That's not quite how balancing works in games. Depending on the game dealing twice the damage can make you way over powered or have an extra 10% damage reduction can be a game changer while 10% more damage isn't all that much. To balance a game correctly you don't always just have to slap equal numbers on things, if that's how it worked we would have a lot more perfectly balanced games and next to no games that are insanely unbalanced.

 

The item team had agreed to the change four days before it was implemented. Balances will come soon. Dex and str stacking should stay, it would cause some very weird discrepancies if it was limited like people are suggesting. It is not the sole reason why things are doing stupid damage, imagine how broken def and agi would be if all armor health bonuses were made to fit a flat health bonus that would be given by skill points and it was suddenly change. Give it time, this will probably make sense in the (hopefully) near future. A temporary revert may actually be necessary however, as I can’t see the item team balancing items in only 4 days

 

These changes are way too big to be a small footnote in a minor patch so yeah, they should be reverted, especially since there's less then one version per year, I think it's fair to assume if this stays the meta is going to be stupid for a long, long time. If they wanted to make this change they should have launched it during the beta and let people test it and figure out how to balance it, not just throw it out there and figure it out later.

________________________________

But why push a change if the rest of the game isn't ready for it? It's fine that they want to make the change, but could it not have waited for 1.21 or even 1.20.1? Why was such a massive change randomly dropped in as a footnote for a minor patch? The fact that the item team got a 4 day head start is kind of irrelevant if the item rebalances don't launch at the same time.

 

Well surely you can at least agree that str and dex weren't ok before, and the game was massively imbalanced before #6 as well, favoring def and agi. I think this patch is relatively balanced, because now it can be possible to do boss fights or raids without being a supertank.

________________________________

meaning that all elements are now somewhat equally viable in endgame builds.

 

shouldve been the players agreeing and not the item team. sure, the item team are good with balaning, but what was stopping them from showing it to the item team and then moving it on to the players?

 

I highly disagree, this hotfix wasnt balanced at all and here are some pictures of what ur able to do [Quake assassin] and Gma no rage [arrow bomb]

 

I'm not saying it was good before, it wasn't, but what I will say is that this pushed it way too far in the other direction to where the only builds you'll see are et(insert third element here). Should builds with str and dex deal more damage? Yes. Should their damage be increased 2 to 3 times that of builds with only one element at best? No, that's too far.

 

This is not an example of a failure of this new system, it is the result of a failure of coordination across the staff team. Because the item nerfs did not come at exactly the same time as the calculation change, it resulted in very weird damage numbers. Just think about how much people ridiculed the ETW build before. "you'll just die" or "the damage trade-off is terrible". This is the right move, especially in the long term.

I 100% agree with this, it was way to early to release this when there are so many bigger projects going on. At least a temporary revert would have been nice...

 

Okay, changing most of the items will just make a large part of the community hella upset as most of their builds will likely be ruined for "fix" a problem that had nothing to do with items, could be fixed without changing items, and is unlikely to be fixed by changing items as it'll just be lowering damage for most builds and not just for builds with both str and dex causing them to be the only usable ones and nothing else will deal enough damage to be usable.

 

That's kind of a mistake I see people making. WFA is no longer viable because it no longer does damage but that was similar to the position ETW was a couple days ago, except ETW was even worse. Its just that so many people were used to the fact that ETW was bad, so they got used to it, and now since the tables have turned it feels weird from a community standpoint. I agree with the fact that it will be painful change for the community, however to leave it unbalanced would have worse long term effects, especially with plans that the content team may have concerning the 5 elements in true endgame. Better to get it over with while we plausibly can, before the item pool gets so deep that it becomes impossible to change.

Another misconception is that damage>hp. They are equally viable, and some may say that hp may be even better as it carries the notion of support with it, and with the implementation of raids and 4 person dungeons its importance only goes up.

Also, one last note: before the hotfix, which mythics were the worst (discounting the lower level ones?) Grimtrap? Gaia? Aftershock? Grandmother? Alkatraz? Do those have anything in common?

For the purpose of this argument please discount inferno lmao.

 

I never said I wanted etw to be nerfed into the ground or for this to stay unbalanced. In fact, I've said the exact opposite.

 

Before this hotfix, I did 1-12k Damage with the Nothing through Meteors.
Now I do 10-40k. That's as good as what Glazer did with his build causing 8-40k damage with Fatal and Meteor Spells.

This is pretty busted, and basically punishes anyone who does not care for their Strength and Dexterity that much.

Edit: Ran EO again today, and I did 30-70k with The Nothing using Meteor Spells with Skill Pots, being able to 1-shot Deathknell Wretches easily

 

Posted in the Wynn discord but I’ll also post it here:

Disregarding whether this is a good or bad change, I’m shocked that the decision to revert this temporarily until proper balance changes have happened has not been made. The content team has been suddenly thrust into what’s essentially crunch time to balance the game around this change. The amount of stress that some of them are dealing with because of this is unacceptable pressure to put on anyone, let alone volunteers. When so many people in both the community and content team are for a simple reversion until the proper changes are made, the decision to revert seems simple to me.

 

This is kind of why I wish the nerfs and buffs were released at the same time, right now all people see is super high damage numbers and think that this is unbalanced when the balances have not come yet, and on top of that it is much harder to see the stacking of A and F than E and T.

Oh sorry if I misinterpreted that. I'm getting kind of heated rn.

 

That's perfectly understandable. I just don't want people misunderstanding what I'm pushing for.

________________________________

I can diffidently agree to this. And if the attempts to balance it makes things worse I would like to add, CT will not be at fault for it. They don't have time to be careful with how they balance things at the moment. (Last bit is more towards everyone in general)

 

Suggestion was implemented