Progression Remove the ID system (among other things).

At some point, overanalyzing every part of the game just to see what technically doesn't make sense/isn't optimal isn't useful. At the end of the day, what is the most enjoyable is what matters most, and professions are considered by most (including me) to be grindy and not particularly rewarding, and quests are a highlight of the game for many people (including me). One of Wynncraft's strength's is its diversity in gameplay. Beyond what is arguably the main content (quests), there are other activities like exploring/secret discoveries, loot running, dungeons/raids, and professions. You can not do something you don't enjoy doing, but do everything related to your favorite activities. So, one person can mostly just do quests until level 103 and stop playing, while someone else can be level 106 trying to get as many stacks of LE as possible, and another person still can grind professions until all of them are level 110. Those are all things Wynncraft lets you do, and a change that forced the quest players to grind mobs or profs would seriously hurt the game.

 

I would write some response that analyzes everything horribly wrong with this but you guys did that for me so I'll just state the obvious;

nah we're not doing this lol

 

Let me put it this way. Leveling up gathering professions +10 levels right now takes about 30 minutes each early game and can easily take hours endgame. I’m not even including the time need to get good ingredients. Right now getting usable gear for the next 10 levels takes 20 ish minutes max by killing mobs or looting chests; if you get gear while doing other things 5 mins. People don’t want to have to spend hours of their time grinding for gear that they will have to replace after 5ish hours of doing quests and leveling up. You are telling people to spend more time grinding for the gear required to do actual content then doing the content itself.

 

oh my god.

 

Hypixel skyblock players when they play a game that they don't need to devote their life to:

 

this is one of the troll posts of all time

 

i need like 10 tldrs for this slab of a thread

 

I didn't read all of it. but no, forcing craftsman on everyone is a big nope.

 

have you ever heard of craftsman mode

 

Sadly this thread is not easily made into a copypasta because it really is just asking for it.

 

My apologies for the previous post, I realize now that I was being kind of a jerk and overly aggressive

5) Crafting is not "most of the game". Crafting is a small, highly-flawed aspect of the game. This would not be "incentivizing" breaking the game loop, this would be "forcing the player" to break the game loop.
However.
If the crafting system were "fixed" (this would be a highly complicated process and idek how one would go about doing that), then I wouldn't be against incentivizing the player to craft.
Not forcing them to - I'd certainly want to keep the ID system, but perhaps making more common crafted items more powerful or something along those lines would be ideal.
I agree with your goals, but not your execution.

4) The issue here is the lack of other things that give experience (other than, of course grinding). If that were fixed (perhaps more quests were added, or maybe more dungeons, or some other form of content that gives experience (keep in mind, it can't be too effective, or else people would grind it)), then this idea might actually work.
I actually think that keeping grinding in might be a good idea, because it would allow for there to be a "skip" button in Wynncraft and if someone really wanted a level 100 class to test out builds or something then they could get that without having to spend large amounts of time.
Once again, I'm finding myself agreeing with your goals, but the idea itself is flawed given the current context.

3) I just personally think that this would allot for even more powerful crafteds than already exist (plus, if this were implemented alongside your first idea, it would affect all players), and that honestly a better idea might be something like being able to "split" crafteds so that you get more slots at the cost of less power (I'm just throwing things at the wall here, this isn't really a well-fleshed-out idea). This time I think I do disagree with the concept, but not that strongly.

1) . . . I see.
I once again find myself aligning with your goals, but disagreeing with your methods.
You make a very good point (I call others hypocrites when being one myself - that's like, hypocritical^2) in saying that I claim to be an RNG hater and yet I'm happy with the current ID system.
Here, however, is why I like it . . . to an extent.

Rarely, when walking around just killing mobs and opening chests that you find on the road, will you get good loot (well, maybe not "rarely", but definitely not "frequently"). The current system incentivizes going out of your way to find caves with chests in them - it incentivizes exploring, and that's something that this game definitely benefits from. The fact that there are caves that are off the beaten path with good loot in them is, in my eyes, a good thing (until the lootrunners come along, but that's a whole different issue), because, outside of that, players wouldn't have any reason to go into those caves.

Let me take a short detour to talk about the RNG aspect of things.
For most items (and this is why I dislike such items as The Specialist and Pure), the rolls of the item don't entirely determine the strength of said item (they still do more than I'd like them to, but I can live with the system as is). The RNG aspect of the items themselves I'm fine with, however finding the items is a different story.

Personally, I feel like the range that comes out of these chests (from 2 emeralds to, like, a mythic or something) is way too broad. Perhaps there's something I'm missing, but it seems like the chests just "roll a couple dice" to decide what's in them.
My idea would be something closer to a "set chest" - not that the chests have the same items in them every time, but that they have, generally speaking, similar amounts of loot in them.

Back to the main concept.
Honestly, I think you're not entirely wrong here - just killing mobs that are right there on the road shouldn't grant you powerful items (same thing with "road chests"). I don't think removing the ID system is the right approach, though - merely nerfing the drop rates from items that you find on the path and maybe making powerful items drop more commonly from harder to find (or beat) mobs (chest drop rates in caves are fine right now, except for the issue mentioned above).

Honestly?
This guy has some good ideas.
Personally, I think that the execution of them is too extreme, but the core concepts are ones I agree with.

...maybe I should start arguing against other people in this thread.

 

You're assuming crafting is intended as something most players do, it's not, if the game forced everyone to craft most players would hate it unless the crafting system was drastically changed.
Secondly, not only has there been a pretty big grind-spot-nerfing campaign by the CT over the last few updates in order to get people to do quests and dungeons more especially in the mid and late game; but also killing zombies is fun, well maybe not zombies specifically, but for the most part killing mobs especially in endgame areas but lower level areas too, is fun because you're engaging with the combat system, resource gathering and crafting is just pressing buttons and waiting for long periods of time and that's not very fun for most people, and it's way grindier than any other kind of content you can do (running dungeons, raids, doing quests, going through caves, even just grinding zombies is at least somewhat active).

So you're saying here that their point about optional content being optional isn't relevant because you know what optional content is and he didn't say anything everybody didn't already know; well sorry but you my friend have complained quite a lot about how players aren't expected to or given a reason to do optional content, it was the opening of your original post. Once again, the optional content is content that you don't have to do, that you only do because you want to, and generally content that you won't be punished for not doing in any required content; if you like doing it, do it, but don't force other people to do it because that'd completely defeat the point of it being optional. Also if you're leveling up too fast, turn on guild xp and you'll level up slower, if you don't have a guild make your own just for the purpose of guild xp that's a thing you can do, sure it's a little janky but there is a way to literally just type a command that'll make you level up slower.

1: I think you're forgetting to mention what you actually do at that new part of the map, and also you are straight up lying in your claim that you'd only spend a few minutes. Currently if you want to get a piece of good armor you'll have to spend about half an hour getting enough 2 and 3 starred ingredients to actually use, probably more, especially if you want to put ingredients in your armor since this makes everything more random (if players are not very, very strongly coerced into putting ingreds with IDs in all of their items the game will cease to have a build system or variation between setups on the same archetype at all, which would ruin half the game's fun for most people), and that's for one or two pieces of equipment, of which you need 9 pieces for a fully working build; so no you'd be going to some area of the map you haven't seen before and then right clicking on little rocks that take forever to respawn, getting attacked by nearby mobs you can't get rid of, watching your inventory fill up with junk you don't want but can't throw out because you have to keep spending your time grinding at this one location (inventory management is already an almost unmanageable problem for me, if I was having to do profs I'd probably just have to stop playing for this reason alone), and then after a while going to another grind spot to do the same thing again, for hours on end. That's not "fun".
2: "what you have on hand" is going to be a bunch of tier 1 ingredients and no mats, I'm sure you'll make a functioning build from that. As for buying stuff from the market, as someone who until recently had 30 emerald blocks to my name (I'm level 105 on my main) I have to make some objections to that; also isn't all the stuff on the market going to be crafted items since in your system only untradable stuff from boss altars and dungeons exists aside from crafteds and the occasional merchant item? I'm sure completely redoing the whole item pool will be very easy for the CT and very easy for players to get adjusted to.
I don't think you realize that this is a game mostly centered around combat, if you were going to make a suggestion like this you could make it center around dungeons or boss altars or raids and I might be more sympathetic. Profs are a decidedly and intentionally optional feature, and for a reason, that reason being that the game would instantly die if people were actually forced to do them (look at the pushback against 2 quests in 1.20 having prof level requirements; and there's good reason for that reason, profs right now are kind of awful to do (people would all be doing them if they weren't, they already yield pretty good items, look at large lapis rings just as an example) and no one wants the roadblocks on the way to the better content while leveling up to be made both orders of magnitude more time consuming and more painful to do.

You kill enough mobs that there's basically a deterministic model for how many legendaries, rares, and uniques you'll get in any 10 given levels if you play the game the same way every time; it's not random at all for the most part, only fableds and mythics are random, which is en1gmatic's problem with the system.

 

The only guy on here to annoy me is Sg_Voltage. By comparison, everyone else is polite and coherent. Getting worked up over stupid things that don't matter is at least half the fun of posting on forums, no?

I didn't say it was "most of the game". I'm pretty clear it's just a small feature in the MMO. When I talk about "most of the game", I'm talking about chunks of the map, basically every merchant, large swathes of cool structures that litter the map, the boss altars, etc. Realistically, if you didn't just find things on the ground, you'd go out of your way to check out that cool altar at the top of the mountain, you'd check with merchants to see if they have anything good, you'd grind a dungeon for loot, or finally do that Time Trouble thing, etc.

The two standout examples in my mind are Half Moon Island and the mask merchant in the Pigman Ravine. Half moon island is a major location with its own port! The mobs are interesting, the area's actually fully developed, and the drops are good. Except there's no time or reason for you to actually go there because it's just this big, inefficient detour from the usual "Kill>Loot>Identify" loop.

And the mask merchant? He actually sells masks. He's not just there for the lone creeper mask; the others are actually items you can buy. To get them, you need to find specific items in the ravine and bring them back to him. Are the masks good for the level? Couldn't tell you, because while I'm looking for the items I need, I usually find some rare or legendary equipment that obviates the whole process. At that point I can either keep going stubbornly just to get the mask and let it sit around in my bank, or I can move on. The search for these items itself would take you to a barley farm around Time Valley, a hidden fishing spot, expose you to possibly your first boss altar, and a grinding spot to boot!

If you can think of a different way to encourage people to explore places like that without stat creep, I'd genuinely love to hear it.

I suspect there's more than people really give credit for. Between all the content that gets overlooked, there's always the option of XP-boosting equipment and consumables. Maybe ingredients with the XP bonuses could be more common, more effective, and/or more varied if it's really that hard to level up. In Minecraft you can technically get most of your digging done with a stone pickaxe. But most people decide it's too tedious, so they make something better. I don't see why it should be all that different here. Would it be that much of a stretch to just make a grinding set?

I'm not married to the idea of infinite ingredients here. In my mind, letting people over-tune low-level items would be counter-balanced by the fact that they can't use very good ingredients. At the same time, once one hits the late game, you're inherently less able to over-level the crafting recipe (I mean, think about it: At level 50, you're 5000% over a level 1 recipe, but only 25% over a level 40 recipe) and even "standard" broken crafts have a probability of failure.

But yeah, splitting sounds decent too. Maybe just some flat reduction in power, and you get more slots the more you over-level the recipe (Still married to over-levelling. Sorry).

That sound perfectly fine by me. When I say "dungeon", I know there are the obvious named dungeons, but I also imagine caves and the like; really anything that's not directly on roads.

Yeah, I'll frequently see Tier III and IV chests that are either basically empty, to choked full of loot I can't carry, and I suspect these loot runners have something to do with that. Some kind of consistency would be nice with these.

Another guy suggested basically the same thing, except he'd rather only more powerful mobs drop the rarer items. I prefer that to just making them more common. Any incentive to just farm waves of mooks will have people just farm waves of mooks and tell the world how tedious the game is.

 

No I'm not.

I've given the example of armor on a mountain. If I tell you it's your level, you probably won't do it. If I tell you it's weaker, you definitely won't do it. If you can get something better by turning around and hitting some mobs on the road you were already travelling, you haven't been offered "optional content". Let me put it another way with collectibles: You know the old trope about audio logs in those open world adventure games. If you want the audio logs, you have to go look for them. They're optional content, usually, since the game isn't affected by whether you have any. If the game then also gave you the option to loot the audio logs off your enemies, the search is redundant. If these lootable audio logs turned out to be extended cuts of the ones you have to look for, you no longer have "optional content". It's not content, it's objectively inferior "extra" for you to ignore.

Right. And if you're not all that jazzed about making all this stuff, you have the option of just... not... doing that.

That's what the few minutes of grinding are for. You go to a new part of the map, and you can get materials, or you can do any of the other things in the area for equipment.

There's barely any demand for ingredients as it is, and even I sell off mats and ingredients I don't want/need. I don't see why the market would sell crafted items exclusively.

Sounds like something to work on.

Seems pretty not-cool to try speaking for other people.

 

(On that note - strike is mostly right, but there are some really powerful Rare/Unique items . . .
the system is kinda messed up right now)

 

well i think its not cool your trying to speak for the entire base of whoever you are trying to speak for, i have made this mistake before and i suggest you dont try to assume what everybody wants or needs.

i feel that if this system was implemented it would be no more than a glorified, slightly more customizable version of hypixel skyblocks progression system, you grind other skills to get materials and recipes, you craft cool items albiet in your system with wynncrafts current crafting system there would be much more customizability with ingredients HOWEVER this can still be compared to skyblock through their reforging system. finally you can sell these crafted items or the ingredients for them on the trade market similar to skyblock in which there is a bazaar and auction house. one of wynncrafts biggest features that people love about it, is that its DIFFERENT from skyblock, the current item system is exactly that.

________________________________

this reminds me of the "buff cataclysm thread"

 

Same, so far I think it is "no".

 

I have no idea what you're talking about.

TL;DR: Having common mobs dropping good loot stops you from doing other cool stuff for loot. Stop mobs from dropping loot so people go do other cool stuff. Crafting sucks, so let people make stronger stuff, except you risk losing your stuff if you add too much.

 

i mean dont speak for everyone

 

Not sure when I tried to. Maybe I forgot.