Game Mechanics Remove Soul Points (v2)

I guess the issue is that your death penalty is probably more punishing than what we already have and while I'm sure it can be balanced, the whole point of removing soul point of removing or reworking soulpoints is to be less discouraging, not more.

Imagine how much it would suck if you died and for the next 40 min you were walking slower and dealing less damage because of it, instead of making you not want to die again because if you die too many more times you'll need to stop playing it would just skip to the part where you don't want to play because the game which you're already struggling with just got harder. Dark Souls does that with the bonfires but I don't think making Wynn more like souls is a good idea.

I promise I'm not trying to flame you, it's fine (good, even) to suggest stuff, it adds a lot to the conversation and gets people thinking, you should keep doing it, but I'm also going to be real with you. Debuffs are so, so much worse than the risk of losing items, no matter how minimal the debuff is. There isn't a nice balance for stuff like that, if it's too minimal then what's the point and if it's not barely noticeable then it's just a pain.

 

Nooo we need soul points to make it as a functional gacha game!! We already have:
Useless energy system that prevents you from playing (lol only if you're "bad" though) - Soul Points
Gacha to spend all of your money on with limited events!!! - Crates
A flock of youtubers, rushing to make guides for new content before everyone else
Lots and lots of community drama regarding what's "meta"
Cute waifu and hot husbando characters - Insert Bob/Siegfried and Lari/Ava
Players have even started playing Wynncraft on mobile devices!!!

In all seriousness, I do think that we'd need to address some sorta penalty for death, along with a cost for scrolls and skill resets. Resetting your skills could easily cost emeralds instead, but yeah I dunno. Even something small like -10% xp, -10%spell/melee damage, -10%loot, and maybe some other stats for a few minute period of time after you die, possibly even stacking (at least the debuff, time wouldn't stack) with each death. It makes it so that you'd still prefer to avoid dying, but isn't like preventing you from playing the game or causing you to lose your items and such. I don't really think that losing emeralds and whatnot is too problematic on death, but losing all of your gear is really poor design. I will say, I'm also extremely tired of losing half my ingredients/materials at 15 soul points, I have no idea why that's not 10 and below like everything else. You're not even able to store materials in the ingredient pouch to keep them safe

My thoughts, at least

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Losing all of your items due to a glitch that causes multiple deaths to trigger or just losing your items in general feels way worse than having a small temporary debuff applied. One makes people quit the game (as experienced many times throughout the community). The other barely matters, but still gives a reason to be somewhat careful. A debuff lasting 40 minutes is absolutely too much, and I don't know if that's a time length that you thought of, but yeah. Definitely would not advocate for something that atrocious

 

It's funny you replied to me since I was in the middle of writing a reply to you so I'll do that first then get to your reply.

That first paragraph is an actual mine field and while I consider myself to be a brave keyboard warrior, not even I have the balls to go near that... The one thing I want to point out is that for the longest time resetting skill points did cost emeralds, it still technically does, it's just comically expensive (especially now since it's technically free) and requires you going to a specific place which is relatively hard to get to (again, considering the alternative). If you're going to make it cost emeralds, at least make all scroll shops sell SP reset scrolls so you don't need to walk back to the tower to re-buy it every time. Or make it cost emeralds in the UI and remove the scrolls. Or make it free, because what's the point in making it cost anything? Players should be encouraged to try new things, not punished for it and it's not like this game needs more emerald sinks.

As for the point of losing items due to a glitch, that is literally the only case where it would be worse. If you die in normal gameplay getting a debuff just makes normal gameplay worse which should not only not be a priority, it should be a priority to do the exact opposite. You want to encourage people to try again, not quit. The risk of losing items sucks, but you know what? You can avoid it by banking frequently and even then the cost doesn't really kick in until you've died quite a few times. If I died even once and was slapped with a debuff I'm either leaving that class or just calling it a day because if I can't beat something without debuffs why on Gods green Earth would I try again when I'm in worse shape?

If you want to debuff the player, give them positive XP buffs to start like what LuckyLuuk suggested and slowly take them away so if you're doing poorly you get held back instead of just getting nerfed with damage decreases. Also, I hate to be that guy but if you're repeatedly being forced to /kill because of game breaking glitches that sounds less like a soul point problem and more like a problem with the game.

 

Yeah i understand, but right now, deaths only penalty is losing items. Temporary debuffs should be way better than losing gear, no? This can also slightly fix hunted where untradeables is the meta, makes no sense that you can just keep going in untradeables at no expense.
Remember, if they've died like 10 times in a row [which is near the point of where you get heavy debuffs], they should prob chill and think what theyre doing through.

 

I agree that right now the only penalty is losing items but I disagree that there needs to be a penalty in the first place since the only purpose a death penalty serves is to kick the player while they're already down which is the opposite of what the game should be doing. If this game was competitive in any way I would agree there should be a cost to death but it's not so before you can make a case for what the punishment for death should be you really need to start with an argument for why death should have a cost at all.

 

I disagree with this.

But I also disagree on why it's bad.

I think the biggest issue with both this and the current system is that it encourages people to AFK for 20 minutes instead of playing the game.
Fundamentally I'm not sure it's the best idea for the game to encourage people not to play the game. The game currently says "Oh you died bud? ok well, don't play on the server for an hour." What it should say is, "You died bud? well get out there and try again, or maybe do something else to get stronger and then come back."

I don't really care if the game does this in the form of punishment (Like requiring you to kill the enemy that killed you in order to get back some sort of bonus) Or if it's just rewarding a player for doing something different after they died. I really don't care what it is, but what it needs to do is encourage the player to play the game instead of coming back in an hour.

 

I get that perspective and mostly agree with it but I think if we're talking about the XP bonus system you could balance it to be reasonably helpful while also not encouraging players to go AFK, at least not unless they die a whole bunch of times and even then it's only an issue if they're grinding for XP.

Let's say for every soul point you have you gain +1% combat and gathering XP bonus. At max (15% iirc) that's a fairly good bonus, if you're trying to get from 99 to 100, that 15% is awesome. If you die, you're still at 13%, I don't think anybody reasonable is going AFK or quit for the day because they lost a 2% bonus because if you just played you would still be far better off, it's just a slight reduction. The added bonus to it only reducing XP is it wouldn't punish you for losing to bosses (which are probably the main cause of death if we're being honest), there would be almost no cost to losing to something like LI or the Qira which would allow you to keep trying no matter how many times you fail with only a minor loss if you chose to give up and immediately grind.

That system would also have the added benefit of giving the increase in soul points as you level more meaning. Right now, it's borderline useless but with a system like this it's basically an XP boost which would help level off the extreme XP curve naturally as you level. If it were up to me, I would also take the opportunity to redistribute the ceiling increases too but I would need to give the exact distribution more thought. Best bet would be to start low and give a big bump at 60, 85 and 95 but again, I would need to give it more thought.

All that said, even if they added a system like this, I think having a more active way to regen skill points would also be a good addition, maybe a skill point scroll you can spend dungeon tokens on, some sort of shrine somewhere or something like an inn where you can pay to regain soul points. I'm not sure what the best way to actively regen soul points is, that would probably be a good thing to discuss as well.

 

Whilst I do believe that there needs to be a "penalty" for death, I think that teleporting to the nearest spawn location and losing some time going back is enough of a penalty. So I simply voted "yes" here.

The reason for death to be a mechanic is, in my eyes, to add difficulty to certain challenges and make sure that people have to get past those challenges before going to other challenges. Someone fights a mob (challenge) and loses, they have to re-do that challenge to get further than that challenge. (or, since wynn is open-word, find another way.)
A mechanic that makes someone lose items / gain debuffs from dying is counterintuitive in my eyes. They lost a challenge, so you give them a handicap meaning that next time the challenge will be more difficult.

I don't think people teleporting using /kill is an issue at all. In order to succesfully do this, they need to be close to wherever they want to teleport anyway. Also, doing /kill and ending up where you wanted to end up feels good. Might not be intended, but like rocket jumping in tf2, it's more fun than walking and as such does not need to be removed.
(Until walking through areas you already know inside-out is made more fun than teleporting through those same areas, that is.)

 

Ah, personally I don't mind either option, with either dying giving a penalty or not just sent out a recommendation if they really want a penalty, and it doesn't have to be combat related nerfs.
At the end of the day, it all depends on their dev and ct team, and giving them more ideas to choose from is my goal.

 

I agree /kill isn't really too much of an issue since TP scrolls exist and by streamlining them it's easy to make them better options than /kill. The main reason to try and avoid scrolls right now is because of soul points, the high cost and them taking up an inventory slot but with soul points out of the question through some change and maybe a price reduction on the higher level area ones I think people would just chose to buy more scrolls and carry them on their person. They could even let you put scrolls in the ingredient pouch which I personally think would be huge and would give players a lot more mobility which is always nice.

It would also be nice if TP scrolls were craftable with scribing, maybe do that instead of dropping the prices, but that's a little off topic.

 

Hello future people, I am bumping this

 

Cela peut aider au démarrage mais à haut niveau ce n'est plus trop dérangeant sauf avec la remise à zéro des points de compétence

 

bump
still very cool

 

I constantly found myself switching and recustomizing builds back when I used to play. I absolutely agree with the arguments stated against keeping SP. The current system punishes players for trying to change up their build, and the amount of items in the game which have entirely different Skills you have to build your character around make limiting how many times you can change your build a problem.

In fact, we could just make SP more of a nice thing to have, as opposed to making players lose items on death, such as boosting EXP gain for having SP, or even making players lose up to 50% EXP gain or so on 0 SP, but the item loss needs to go. Losing an item feels horrendous, and just screams at players who fall victim to an item loss to rage quit or stay unreasonably on edge for as long as they keep playing.

Tying some amount of EXP gain to SP is fine, but we need to keep Items out of this.

 

The XP gain doesn’t sound too bad either. As long as it’s capped at 30% to 50% percent.

 

Soul points my beloved.... NOT!

 

sure thing please remove em theyre so anoying and great suggestion btw.

 

I think soul points should not be removed, however there should be a better way to regenerate them than just waiting?

 

Soul points yeah for sure because I absolutely when soul points and you yep it sucks just be gone.

 

remove wynncraft