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Guide Raw Spell Conversion Ratios

Discussion in 'Wynncraft' started by Druser, Aug 13, 2019.

  1. Druser

    Druser ele defs don't matter VIP

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    Any classbuilder worth their salt knows on some level that raw spell is more effective on Mage, and less effective on Archer. The question is, how much more effective? To answer that, we need to be able to convert raw spell values to percent damage values, and vice versa.

    This turns out to be pretty simple actually. If we look at Motoki's Damage Calculation Guide (note this doesn't have some of the more recent fixes, such as the defense changes and the corrected raw spell display), in Section 6, we can see that raw spell and base damage are both multiplicative with the spell multiplier, so this can be cancelled. ID Boosts are all additive with each other so we can simply compare spell damage percent boosts and raw spell damage by using the base spell damage - that is, post-powder weapon base damage times the natural attack speed multiplier. Everything else has no effect on the relative efficacy of raw spell to spell percent.

    * Note that this doesn't take into account class defense/Warscream, not that this is likely to matter since those don't apply in PvE. It also doesn't take into account elemental defense, but we don't really have good knowledge of elemental defense values for mobs - no one makes builds with exact elemental defense data in mind, usually we're just estimating those effects anyway.

    Calculating a Raw Spell to Spell Percent Ratio

    For example, consider Infused Hive Bow:
    [​IMG]
    This weapon has 360-430 base neutral damage, and no elemental damage - by mousing over each damage value on Wynndata (only one, in this case), I can see the average base damage. Note that some weapons may have decimal average damage, in which case Wynndata will display a rounded value - keep that in mind when doing these types of calculations.

    Infused Hive Bow has 5 powder slots - suppose we use exclusively Tier 6 Thunder powders. The only relevant factor here is the base damage addition, which for thunder powders is 5-45 thunder damage (average = 22.5 thunder damage). We can simply add these values to the base damage to get the post-powder damage.

    395 + 5*22.5 = 507.5

    Now we take this and multiply by the appropriate natural attack speed multiplier. Remember that +tier and -tier IDs don't have any effect on which multiplier is used.
    Super Fast: 4.3
    Very Fast: 3.1
    Fast: 2.5
    Normal: 2.05
    Slow: 1.5
    Very Slow: 0.83
    Super Slow: 0.51

    507.5*2.5 = 1268.75

    Effectively, what this means is that +100% spell damage is equivalent to +1268.75 raw spell damage for this particular weapon and powdering. Of course, that's not exactly the most useful way to think about this. I prefer to express the values in 100 raw spell equivalents - e.g. for full T6 thunder Hive Bow, +100 raw spell damage is equivalent to +7.88% spell damage. So, you can easily look at, say, Soul Signal, and see that its 300 raw spell (post-revamp) gives the equivalent of 23.4% damage boost on full T6 thunder Hive Bow.

    You can run this calculation for yourself pretty easily, allowing for a more concrete way of determining just how effective raw spell damage is for a particular weapon.

    * There is one edge case where this breaks down - if you have a net ID boost below -100%, obviously adding more % boost isn't going to do anything until your ID boost goes above -100%. The most obvious example is with Centipede, which effectively brings your raw spell to spell percent ratio to infinity, since your spell percent isn't going to do anything until it counters the -1000% spell damage on Centipede (which is almost always impossible). This can also apply to elemental damages with weapons like Return to Ether, which brings thunder damage below -100% - although, since ID boosts are additive, you'll still end up having above-zero ID boost on thunder damage on many typical builds.

    Graph

    Below, you can see a graph of 100 raw spell equivalents for a selection of major spell-oriented legendaries for each class, alongside (relevant) spell-oriented mythics. I also added a couple of illustrative Rare weapons. It's obvious from the graph that base damage, while important, doesn't automatically make a weapon good (e.g. Fog of Creation). The increasing difference as we go from bows to wands is to be expected, since a linear difference would quickly end up being a decreasing difference in practice due to raw spell.

    Warning - this graph uses damage data from the now-canceled Elemental Revamp

    [​IMG]

    Coming SoonTM, some interesting findings on EWF vs. TWA and how the characteristics of these archetypes could explain certain classbuilding phenomena.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2019
    creature, Crokee, LarzLapiz and 15 others like this.
  2. NicBOMB

    NicBOMB Maker of Builds | Lurks on Forums | 1 Mythic Found HERO

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    Nice TED talk.
    That's something intuitive I haven't seen explained so perfectly before. I should make a calculator for that.
     
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  3. hora6112/gaidg

    hora6112/gaidg hora6112 HERO

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    Wow. Thank you for making this guide, this clears up a ton of stuff for me. Just as a clarification to make sure I understand what this is saying; the freedom I bought has very low spell damage raw (143 under maximum), but Freedom with thunder powders is affected by raw spell less than any other bow in the game? So it doesn't matter as much as Spell damage raw would on a Morrowind (as an example)?
     
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  4. NicBOMB

    NicBOMB Maker of Builds | Lurks on Forums | 1 Mythic Found HERO

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    Freedom has a lot of elemental damage, so Neutral % is more effective at amplifying all of them than on other bows. Adding 100 raw spell is less efficient than using neutral spell % on freedom. Basically, neutral spell % increases all your elemental and neutral spell damage. Neutral raw just adds a flat amount. Weapons with very high base elemental damage and/or diverse elemental damages benefit from neutral % more than raw spell. Weapons with very low base damage benefit from adding flat damage to their attacks.
     
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  5. Druser

    Druser ele defs don't matter VIP

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    Exactly. That 143 raw spell is relatively inconsequential on Freedom.

    Edit: That said, it's more useful as a comparison for, say, the % spell versus raw spell on Singu or something, or for comparing different armors for a particular weapon.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
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  6. NicBOMB

    NicBOMB Maker of Builds | Lurks on Forums | 1 Mythic Found HERO

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    Unless you need raw spell to pierce.
     
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  7. Epicness937

    Epicness937 Thesead water god. HERO

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    I'm sad I missed when this was posted
    10/10
     
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  8. Jirayut

    Jirayut Travelled Adventurer VIP+

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    so i don't have to care bout raw spell while building cata right?
     
  9. Druser

    Druser ele defs don't matter VIP

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    I wouldn't go quite so far as to say you don't have to care, but it's a lot less important that percent damages.
     
  10. Fwap a Durp

    Fwap a Durp Stuck at home -.- HERO

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    desperado between bonder and peaceful rest, very funny...
    it's base damage is even higher than that of fatal, why so low?
     
  11. Druser

    Druser ele defs don't matter VIP

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    The beta weapon had the wrong data. Somewhere, the real weapon data is floating around (Major posted it somewhere, possibly on classbuilds Discord).
     
  12. Fwap a Durp

    Fwap a Durp Stuck at home -.- HERO

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    https://www.wynndata.tk/ci/149838579
    found it
    muuuuuch more balanced
     
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  13. Epicness937

    Epicness937 Thesead water god. HERO

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    I'm back here cause i was wondering how you made that graph...i wanna make a bigger one :P
     
  14. Druser

    Druser ele defs don't matter VIP

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    Heh... manually in Paint. Took me 2 hours or so.
     
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  15. MikAsk123

    MikAsk123 Travelled Adventurer

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    I finally understand which ones is better spell raw or spell %
     
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