Make War Pvp Based! [59% Support]

Dr Zed · Nov 24, 2018

WynnChairman said: ↑

well actually they gave gold coins in the nether so...
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oh, but you know what I mean, especially after the EULA update...

WynnChairman · Nov 24, 2018

Dr Zed said: ↑

oh, but you know what I mean, especially after the EULA update...
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ye after that it was useless lmao

Theeef · Dec 17, 2018

Gonna bump this... was very controversial, but majority wanted this even though my thread itself is bad.

Mac N Cheese Man · Dec 17, 2018

Theeef said: ↑

Please don't judge super hard or just say "this is stupid, and won't work"... I accept that I'm stupid 90% of the time and I don't always think before posting, so if this is a bad idea please explain to me why, thanks <3

So, on to the idea... I currently think war is not immersive at all, overall requires little strategy, and is just plain boring. I think a lovely way to spice it up would be by actually making war based on PvP. Now there's a lot of arguments against this idea, so I'll explain how it would work first, and address arguments afterwards...

How it works:
You start an attack with /guild attack. If sufficient funds aren’t in the bank (set amount to declare war) then it won’t let them attack. When the war itself begins, the bank will be charged an amount per player in the territory. The cost to attack per player is based on the ratio of captains in the guild to players in the attack. The larger the difference between regular players and captains, the more money the war will cost. So when the attack command is run it will start down a timer for the war to begin. The more captains that are in the attacking guild, the longer it will take to start the war. Players can leave the territory, switch classes, etc. while waiting. Multiple wars can be waged at a time by one guild, but each captain may only do one attack at a time and has to wait for one to finish to declare another. They can do /guild retreat to cancel their current war. Once the war starts, funds are removed from the bank of both guilds and players are teleported to the war world. If there aren’t enough, some players will be left behind. If there aren’t any players from the defending guild in the territory, the attacker’s automatically win. If there are, everyone is teleported to the war world and have to fight until only one guild is remaining. Potions and consumables will now actually be used up in war servers. If no one is killed after a certain amount of time (like someone hiding just to waste the other guilds time), then locations of players will be revealed via compass trackers, or some other way of ending the fight will occur like a sudden-death situation. After fighting, the winning team will then own the territory and get some emeralds back. They can earn up to 75% back, starting at 10% and increasing by 5% for every player more the enemy has on their team. The amount of that percentage that is earned back is based on how long it takes for the war to finish, with quicker speeds resulting in more emeralds back. After that, the territory cannot be attacked again for a time, based on the difference between captains in the attacking guild and defending guild. If there are many more captains in the defending, then there will be a longer cooldown, with opposite conditions for a shorter cooldown. READ THE ARGUMENTS BELOW BEFORE CRITICIZING

Notable Commands:
/guild attack - Starts the attack timer for the territory the user is in. Each captain can only attack 1 territory at a time, and the attack timer is based on the total # of captains in the guild.
/guild retreat - Cancels the attack timer for the territory... This allows a captain to attack a different territory, and the war in that one will not occur.
>> Note: Rank of players cannot be changed while that player is in war <<

Argument 1: It will be harder to war, because players will have to be on
Response:

How is this a bad thing? Oh no, your players will have to be more active and actively participate in the game to make sure that you don't lose territories... additionally this will encourage the production of guilds having members in multiple time zones (assuming your goal is to hold the territory permanently), allowing for more diversity and overall a better balance of players in guilds.

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Argument 2: Larger guilds will have an advantage since it's now PvP.
Response:

Larger guilds will have an advantage in some ways yes... In guild vs. guild offenses they will likely dominate simply by sheer force of manpower. They will also be able to start more attacks at a time than other guilds (as long as they have enough captains), although note that now since it's based on PvP, they could end up in a 1v10 if they spread their forces too thin... Now the reason that this is alright is because of what I mentioned earlier... the more captains your guild has, the longer you have to wait before the battle starts. If they have a lot of people fighting and few captains, they will be able to attack quickly, but it will cost them significantly more to attack. If they have more captains, as larger guilds usually do, it takes longer to attack while having balanced costs. Now in a small guild, majority of the time they’re going to have few attackers and few captains. This keeps prices balanced while allowing for very quick attack timers. This gives defending guilds significantly less time to prepare items and making it to the territory. If they don't have scrolls, they might not even be able to make it to the territory in time, resulting in a them losing by default. This will result in the defending guild possibly being low on potions, not having enough people cause not everyone could make it there in time, etc. This would result in the smaller guilds having an additional advantage, so it all balances out in my opinion

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Argument 3: I realized this one as I was writing this... who the hell wants to wait 10-20 minutes for a war to start if you're in a big guild?
Response:

No one does... this creates a sort of equilibrium for guild size now, doesn't it? Besides the fact that you can go to other locations, switch classes, servers, start more attacks, etc. while waiting for a war to begin, this will help prevent guilds from ending up TOO powerful in war, because it will take freaking forever for war to start (cap at 30 minute wait time? Again values would be adjusted), so people won't make huge war guilds with tons of captains that result in player imbalances and overall being overpowered. They can choose between smaller guilds if that's their preference, which will have the advantage of time, a moderate size guild if they like war, and are willing to wait a bit longer for the advantage of more players, or they can recruit lots of players, have a shit ton of force, but have to wait a long time for battle, preventing them from the advantage of surprise, etc. Also they can focus more on community, not promoting as many captains or chiefs for war. Perhaps a new rank that doesn’t have warring permissions but can kick lower members would be useful? Overall this just adds a lot more strategy in my opinion, and encourage many guilds rather than enormous guilds that rule without competition.

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Argument 4: You could declare multiple wars at a time, and go from one war to the next to avoid the wait timer ~ from @WynnChairman (Resulted in mechanics edit)
Response:

Since each captain can only declare one attack at a time, it would take a lot of captains to declare a significant amount of attacks at a time, which would drive up the time it takes to wait for the first war, overall removing the effectiveness of the strategy in the first place.. If for some reason a way was found to make it faster, it would drive the emerald cost of war up by a lot since there would be more captains, which means more emeralds needed per player.

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Argument 5: This encourages feeder guilds, since smaller guilds take less time to attack ~ from @WynnChairman (Resulted in mechanics edit)
Response:

If smaller sub-guilds are attacking territories with few players in their guild, then the overall time-effectiveness would go down... Here's why... Since the snipe timer is based on the size of the attacking and defending guilds, it would result in the snipe timer being long enough to make the decreased wait time to attack insignificant. There's 2 scenarios in which this could happen... Your smaller guild is attacking a larger guild. This larger guild has more players, so you're likely to lose. In the event that you do win, the snipe timer will be much longer since there is a large difference between guild populations. If you attack a guild with similar player count to you, then you may or may not win, and either way the snipe timer for having equal player counts would result in it being ineffective. Further discouraging this is the fact that having a small guild that attacks multiple territories for sniping would require a larger amount of captains, which would overall increase the price of warring, as opposed to simply fighting with the central guild.

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Argument 6: This could discourage community guilds from warring since it takes them longer to war ~ from @WynnChairman (Resulted in mechanics edit)
Response:

This would not discourage community guilds from warring, because the wait duration is based on the number of captains in the guild. They could simply choose to not promote a large amount of captains. If they wanted to do a lot of war, then they're mostly a war guild, not a community guild, no?

Those are the main arguments that I can thing of, but free free to (politely) prove me wrong in the comments... Now, time for pros and cons

Pros:
- Encourages many guilds, rather than large overpowered guilds
- Encourages both smaller and moderate sized guilds
- Allows for war to be much more strategic, with guild size, attacks at a time, resources, etc. coming into play
- Would overall be much more engaging and require more team work (as pvp does) rather than just killing mobs and hoping you survive
- Would encourage time-zone variety in guilds, so that they don't lose too many territories if they all go to sleep...
- Would emphasize the importance of builds and items, since your opponent can always try and get better than you in some way
Cons:
- Some people might be annoyed by longer wait times, but I discussed that
- Would require more focus on balancing PvP and that takes time, but it needs to get done eventually anyways...

If you agree please show some love in the poll and the comments, if you disagree vote in the poll and discuss with myself and others in the comments how / why this should be changed. Thanks for reading!

TL;DR - Read the bolded parts under "How it works", then glance over the arguments.

Thread Edits:

11/23/2018 - Creation

11/23/2018 - Mechanics Change, added arguments 4-6

11/24/2018 - Added "sudden death" mechanic

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No, I find PvP to be dumb and not very fun

Theeef · Dec 17, 2018

Mac N Cheese Man said: ↑

No, I find PvP to be dumb and not very fun
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Alright, that's your opinion and I respect that ;)

Sar · Dec 18, 2018

yea this and party duels party needs to be added, it would make some great games to organize

Slynnder · Dec 18, 2018

i love the idea! they might want to nerf multihit gods and op dmg warriors, maybe there could be the option of PVP if enough players are on for both guilds, if not, then the mobs. there is the nether, but cmon who even goes there anymore? and guild pvp? much better

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dreamer101 said: ↑

It renders level 0-70 people useless in war. Also I think that big guilds would divide into a lot of smaller sub-guilds popping up to keep the total players from the original guild while having the ability to attack more often.

This might be biased a little because I am garbage at duels.
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low level people already get destroyed by the mobs anyways

SaltyKing · Dec 19, 2018

Let me tell you a story.
Once upon a time there was a time zone called Oce
This time zone of around 8 hours of range bit longer.
Australia (A country where there are like 50 wynn players very few are active and even less are in the guild community)
New zealand (Same as Australia)
And a bunch of countries where english is not a 1st language and as such there is a low rate of them in wynn and again lower in the guild community.
This means. When I war at my prime time. There are THREE other people that are warring (Generally sometimes I'm the only person from the guild area)

Now I am in Fox, A guild with 29 Captains and Chief aswell as 1 owner (30 in total)
So I am waiting what. 30minutes or so to not even fight everything. EVER SINGLE WAR.
your also telling me. That I could get on my private guild with only me in it. Have a 1 min timer and not have to kill any mobs and CLEAN the map in roughly 3 hours as long as I avoided the very few people who were online.

Also if your guild was being 3V1ed by other guilds 2 of the guilds would be able to wipe territories whilst the guild with the most captains would just stall you in a single war.

But it could hold some promise of an Idea if it was optional that you could chose. Like say you are being attacked in [Cinfras] you could type /guild defend Cinfras and you would be able to join the war in cinfras (Suggesting that players can cover really long distances in short time is stupid) and defend instead of the mobs that were placed to defend the territory.

Maybe someone already said this stuff idk I didn't see anyone say it.
Sorry if this doesn't make any sense at all xD

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Make War Pvp Based! [59% Support]

Is this a good idea?

Yes, all of your arguments are valid I love this (+1 Supporter)

Yeah, one of your arguments wasnt correct, but I still want this (+1 Supporter)

Your arguments are wrong, but I still want this (+1 Supporter)

I appreciate the effort, but I don't really want this... (Please tell me why in comments)

Dr Zed Famous Adventurer HERO

WynnChairman Chairman of Wynn HERO

Theeef Owner of The Crossroads CHAMPION

Mac N Cheese Man First Official Member Of The Mac N Cheese Club

Theeef Owner of The Crossroads CHAMPION

Sar The Fire Archer CHAMPION

Slynnder idk lol

SaltyKing Banana CHAMPION