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Game Mechanics Improving even 2 MORE Controversial "Ultimate Abilities"

Discussion in 'General Suggestions' started by ChrisWildfire, Oct 13, 2023.

?

Which ones would you like to see added to the game?

  1. Solar Aegis

    27 vote(s)
    93.1%
  2. Flames of Resurrection

    23 vote(s)
    79.3%
  3. Divine Intervention

    25 vote(s)
    86.2%
  4. Hymn of Panic

    22 vote(s)
    75.9%
  5. Frog Dance (new)

    22 vote(s)
    75.9%
  6. None of the above

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. ChrisWildfire

    ChrisWildfire Aspiring Airbender

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    mario

    First, I want to thank @Elysium_ for providing feedback to these node suggestions! Elysium is great at paying attention to details I tend to miss, which ensures that the abilities I'm designing are fun, thematically coherent, and balanced! Elysium my man you are very very awesome and I hope your music career blows up before you know it

    Hey, suggestions people! I'm back for the third time with even more red nodes! In this post, I'll be talking about paladin's Second Chance, and ritualist's Mask of the Coward! These two abilities have been a part of their respective archetypes for a while now, and I believe they have a place in their ability trees! However they tend to be underutilized by their archetypes.

    Second Chance is a strong ability that turns paladin into the ultimate tank archetype, but is overall a passive ability with a long cooldown that doesn't tend to be impactful in most situations. While Martyr makes Second Chance give a powerful buff to allies, its long cooldown and... questionable way of triggering... makes both abilities lack influence overall.

    Meanwhile, Mask of the Coward is heavily overshadowed by ritualist's other Masks, especially with Mask of the Fanatic's new Totemic Shatter ability. While its good walk speed bonus and the Seeking Totem ability allows ritualists to kite their targets, the Mask of the Coward still lacks a clear and unique purpose that makes staying on the Mask a good option in combat. The ability Frog Dance is also underutilized due to its inconsistency, and doesn't successfully promote making use of Mask of the Coward's reduction to Haul's cost.

    With these issues in mind, I've designed new nodes for paladin and ritualist that would give these abilities a new and clearer purpose, while still keeping the aspects that makes them iconic!

    Second Chance and Martyr are good defensive abilities that fits paladin's design as the tank archetype. While useful in clutch situations, they ultimately act as a passive safety net. While it can be exciting to see the ability trigger for the first time, one tends to realize that these abilities are unimpactful in the grand scheme of things.

    Red nodes are the nodes that defines an archetype. They should be impactful in a way that is seamlessly weaved into the archetype's gameplay. Instead of working with Second Chance's design, I instead reimagined Martyr's concept into an ability worthy of being paladin's ultimate ability, and turned the revive mechanic into a lesser side-upgrade node that would support this new ability. Burn yourself away for the cause, knowing that you can endure the heat.

    solar aegis.png
    (gonna be including the little details that come with ability tree nodes in-game from now on)

    flames of resurrection.png

    martyr.png

    second chance.png

    How do they work?
    While you have at least 60% Holy Power from Sacred Surge, casting Shift + War Scream, in addition to its usual effects, will consume 60% Holy Power to envelop you in holy Flames. The Flames would always surround you, would be circle-shaped with a radius of 8 blocks, and would last for 30s. While Solar Aegis is active, casting War Scream would not trigger Solar Aegis again regardless of the amount of Holy Power you have from Sacred Surge. However, casting War Scream while holding shift will end the ability early.

    You and allies inside the Flames would be granted a 20% Resistance Bonus that would stack with other similar effects. When allies leave the Flames' area, they would instantly lose this buff.

    Every 1 second, you and enemies inside the Flames' area would take damage. The damage enemies would take would have a different DPS scaling than the damage you would take: enemies would take 300% of your weapon's DPS per second, while you would take 5% of your weapon's DPS per second. Both of these damages would be calculated as spell damage.

    The damage you would take from the Flames would be able to trigger your abilities, including but not limited to: Mantle of the Bovemists, Manachism, Sacred Surge, Rejuvenating Skin, and the Endurance powder special. This damage can be mitigated by base resistance, resistance bonuses, and elemental defenses.

    Once Solar Aegis ends, you would heal for a certain amount of health based on how long Solar Aegis lasted. For every second Solar Aegis has lasted, you would have +2% of your health back: if Solar Aegis lasted for 10s, then you would heal for 20% of your max health; while if Solar Aegis lasted for 20s, then you would heal for 40% of your max health. The ability would also be put on a 15s cooldown during which casting War Scream would not trigger Solar Aegis again regardless of the amount of Holy Power you have from Sacred Surge.


    If you have the ability Flames of Resurrection, then taking a fatal hit while Solar Aegis is active would not kill you. However, Solar Aegis would end immediately. Your health would be set to a certain amount based on how long Solar Aegis lasted before you took the hit. For every second Solar Aegis has lasted, you would have +2% of your health back: if Solar Aegis lasted for 10s, then your health would be set to 20% full; while if Solar Aegis lasted for 20s, then your health would be set to 40% full.

    This ability would not trigger if Solar Aegis is not active.

    When Flames of Resurrection triggers, the ability would be put on a 10m cooldown during which you would not be protected from a fatal hit even while Solar Aegis is active.

    linebreaklinebreaklinebreaklinebreaklinebreaklinebreaklinebreak

    Why are they designed this way?
    Instead of keeping paladin's final red node as a passive ability with a long cooldown, I turned it into an active ability that takes inspiration from Martyr's self-sacrificing design. Paladin is notoriously boring, and could use more active abilities like Sacred Surge. This way, paladins would not be limited by how well they can respond to a situation, and would have the power to proactively influence the fight whenever they choose.

    The most unique aspect of this ability is it's constant and unavoidable self-damage. While this can be a threat to a lot of archetypes, paladins are designed not only to mitigate damage, but to use it to their advantage. Sacred Surge was a good addition to the archetype, and can turn Solar Aegis' self-damage into a strength that paladins can make use of. Not only would this ability allow paladins to deal damage more efficiently, but it would also make them feel like a powerful and undying tank that can actively put themselves in harm's way to achieve their goals.


    Now let's talk about Flames of Resurrection, which is the reworked Second Chance. The reason why the health it would restore is dynamic is because I want Solar Aegis' self-sacrificing design to be worth using, especially with the amount of risk it can put paladins on. In times where paladins couldn't take the heat, they would still be protected based on how willing they were to put their survivability on the line. This design would also prevent paladins to only use this ability to sneakily cheat death, and would reassure paladins that the divine would have their backs when it matters most.

    I also designed an upgrade node for Flames of Resurrection that would further tie this ability into the paladin's kit.

    divine intervention.png

    Divine Intervention would make Flames of Resurrection's revive mechanic feel more like a part of paladin's abilities that players would be able to actively rely on, instead of a passive ability that would only serve as a safety net. This way, players are invited to adapt a more active and fearless playstyle that would allow them to appreciate paladin's tanky nature a lot more.

    linebreaklinebreaklinebreaklinebreaklinebreaklinebreaklinebreak

    How would these abilities help the archetype?
    Solar Aegis can turn paladin into a more exciting tank archetype with a more engaging and unique gameplay, while Flames of Resurrection and Divine Intervention would allow paladins to safely make use of their abilities to reach their full potential. With all of these abilities combined, the paladin archetype would have a more solid and iconic identity that paladins and non-paladins alike would recognize and appreciate.

    Ritualist is a unique stance-change archetype that allows players to change up their playstyle in the middle of combat. Mask of the Lunatic turns you into a glassy control mage capable of mass destruction and crowd control with strong and cheap auras, while Mask of the Fanatic turns you into a fighter-like mage that can deal with enemies up-close with the Mask's resistance bonus and Totemic Shatter's damage and sustain. Mask of the Coward, however, isn't as widely recognized as the other two Masks, and does not offer a clear purpose and gameplay pattern that makes use of its powerful walk speed bonus and reduced Haul cost.

    The Mask of the Coward has recently received a new ability: Seeking Totem. This ability allows shamans to kite their enemies down and move more freely without worrying about losing Totem's damage or sustain. I believe this is a good start, so I worked with its current design and turned it into something that has potential to make staying on the Mask of the Coward a viable combat option. I also made changes to Frog Dance and turned it to a reliable Haul upgrade that ritualists can make use of while wearing the Mask. May the insidious teachings of fear and panic make the world slowly crumble.

    hymn of panic.png
    (rename Totemic Shatter to Hymn of Mania for that epic naming convention)

    frog dance.png

    seeking totem.png

    frog dance.png

    How do they work?
    If you have the ability Hymn of Panic, wearing the Mask of the Coward will make your Totem move towards you whenever you are outside of its area of effect. Hymn of Panic would also make your Totem's effects twice as fast: Totem would deal damage every 0.2s (0.1s with Furious Effigy), Regeneration would heal every 0.2s (0.1s with Furious Effigy), your Totem would summon Puppets every 1.5s (0.75s with Furious Effigy) with Puppet Master, and your Totem would siphon health every 0.2s (0.1s with Furious Effigy) with Sacrificial Shrine.

    Hymn of Panic's effects would not be applied to your Totem when you are not wearing the Mask of the Coward.


    If you have the ability Frog Dance, you may hold shift after casting Haul to quickly drop down. Once you land, you would create a Puddle on the ground that deals damage to enemies on it every 0.4s. The Puddle would be centered on where you landed, would be circle-shaped with a diameter of 4.5 blocks, and would last for 6s. You would also bounce upwards and forwards both with 12 launch power, and for the forwards launch taking yaw only into account (about the same launch power as a Totem throw but kinda different in terms of launch direction).

    Once you touch the ground, holding shift would not trigger Frog Dance's effects again; you must cast Haul and hold shift again in order to use the ability. You may use Frog Dance regardless of what Mask you are wearing, and regardless of whether you are wearing a Mask or not.

    Not holding shift after casting Haul would not trigger Frog Dance.

    linebreaklinebreaklinebreaklinebreaklinebreaklinebreaklinebreak

    Why are they designed this way?
    Each ritualist Mask provides a buff and a debuff that corresponds with what kind of playstyle they encourage: Mask of the Lunatic gives a damage boost at the cost of low resistance, which pushes you to burst enemies down while properly positioning yourself: like a mage; while Mask of the Fanatic gives a resistance boost at the cost of low walk speed, which pushes you to be up close to enemies but gives you enough survivability: like a fighter. Not only did I made use of Mask of the Coward's buffs and debuffs to design a specific playstyle, but I also designed the playstyle based on a third and different class trope: the marksman.

    Marksmen in games tend to deal less damage than melee classes, but they make up for it with their ability to deal damage consistently with their range, mobility, and fast attack rate. In a similar fashion, Mask of the Coward's Hymn of Panic would increase Totem's consistent damage, while the reduced Haul cost would allow players to make use of Frog Dance more often to deal damage while keeping their distance from enemies.


    I also designed the abilities based on ability design convention that is somewhat already established in the ritualist archetype: Hymns and Dances (alongside Chants). Hymns like Hymn of Hate and Hymn of Mania Totemic Shatter are Mask-exclusive buffs that makes a specific playstyle more effective or feasible. On the other hand, Dances like Rain Dance and Storm Dance are simple spell upgrades that, not only ritualists, but also the other archetypes, can make use of without having to use a Mask. I turned Seeking Totem to an ability worthy of being a purple node and Mask of the Coward's Hymn, while I turned Frog Dance into a simpler yellow node ability that other archetypes can pick up and utilize.

    I decided to take this opportunity to design the abilities in a way that would make it synergize with another archetype: the summoner. The ritualist and the acolyte archetypes have always had synergy with Mask of the Lunatic and Storm Dance, and I wanted to give ritualist a similar synergy with summoner that would open up a new and unique playstyle.

    With Hymn of Panic, summoners would be able to summon puppets at a faster rate which would be incredibly devastating with Exploding Puppets combined with a certain weapon's Major ID; while Frog Dance would synergize well with Nature's Jolt, Stagnation, and perhaps a more controllable Haul, to allow summoners to freeze enemies in place as they deal consistent heavy damage to them.

    By moving the Frog Dance node to a spot between Crimson Effigy and Mask of the Coward and by reducing Mask of the Coward's minimum ritualist archetype requirement, combined with summoner's easy access to Mask of the Coward (through Crimson Effigy) and Seeking Totem/Hymn of Panic (through Invigorating Wave), "MotC Summoner" could become a uniquely strong synergy that players can try out!

    Hey everyone!

    Here's a variation of the reworked Frog Dance.

    frog dance.png

    This version would work less like Boltslinger's Fierce Stomp where the ability would only trigger once you hold shift after casting Haul, and instead would trigger like Trickster's Bamboozle where holding shift while casting Haul would completely change how it would function.

    Here's what it would look like!


    This version would make Haul much more controllable both for ritualists and summoners without changing how Haul fundamentally works. Combined with Hymn of Panic's Totem follow mechanic, ritualists utilizing the Mask of the Coward would be free to launch themselves wherever they please without worrying about losing Totem's damage or utility.

    Like the first version of the reworked Frog Dance, this ability would not require you to wear the Mask of the Coward before using the ability. Since its movement is not tied to your Totem, this ability can be cast even while your Totem is not active.

    Which Frog Dance rework do you prefer?

    linebreaklinebreaklinebreaklinebreaklinebreaklinebreaklinebreak

    How would these abilities help the archetype?
    With Mask of the Coward combined with these ability changes, ritualists can kite enemies down with the Mask's mobility while allowing them to consistently and reliably deal damage with Totem and Frog Dance despite the Mask's reduction to your damage. This would open up a new viable playstyle for ritualists that would allow them to adapt a playstyle that focuses on mobility and steady damage output.

    The design of these abilities would also allow summoners to vary their playstyle by taking the Mask of the Coward and its corresponding abilities. While this is not enough to make summoner a more interesting archetype, I believe it is a good start in establishing a healthier ability tree design overall!

    Overall, the goal of these changes is to give these abilities a clearer purpose that is more relevant to their archetype's gameplay. This way, players will feel like fully investing on these archetypes are worth it, and that they can fully explore and expand their power and ability as whichever archetype they want to play.

    Thank you so much for reading! It has been a wonderful journey redesigning red nodes of different archetypes. I couldn't thank you all enough for all of your support and encouragement!

    Remember to like the post and vote in the poll, and feel free to leave constructive feedback in the replies!

    Part 1
    Part 2
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2023
  2. Elysium_

    Elysium_ Canyon Wanderer CHAMPION

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    I love all of these designs! I’m heavily biased, but I still think that these would help the archetypes become so much more interesting and viable. Right now, Paladin is just spamming spells and melee to build Sacred Surge for some extra damage. But with Solar Aegis, there would be something to tie it together. A gameplay loop.
    Not to mention the pure cool… ness of engulfing yourself in flames to protect your allies, like a true protector of the light. It’s also another way for Paladins to deal more damage, which is always good. It would make building into HP more rewarding than just being harder to kill.

    I like the new Frog Dance, although I don’t have as much experience with Ritualist as I do Paladin. It will make Shaman's mobility much better as a whole, though, as it won't require any specific mask, allowing the other archetypes to more freely hybrid into Frog Dance.
    I REALLY like the Hymn of Panic thing, though. It would make it like more of an aggressive playstyle, instead of just running away. That might be the biggest reason why it isn't used in combat as much as the other masks, because there's really nothing to help you besides extra speed and shit. With the new Hymn of Panic, however, it will be it's own unique playstyle that you can utilize in your own way.
    haul spam meta??
     
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  3. ChrisWildfire

    ChrisWildfire Aspiring Airbender

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    Edited Frog Dance's numbers and how I described how far you'd be thrown. Hopefully it makes sense for y'all! Idk how Wynncraft does their launch stuff so this is the best I came up with.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2023
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  4. ChrisWildfire

    ChrisWildfire Aspiring Airbender

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    Those are really good points! I agree with them, yeah!

    Thank you for your feedback as always, Elysium! I'm glad you like them!
     
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  5. Elytry

    Elytry Professional Amateur VIP

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    No seriously, the first time I thought the abilities would be ok, they were AMAZING. Then I thought for the second one, ok this is probably gonna be meh, they were AMAZING. And I thought the same thing this time, and yet again you and Elysium managed to create some awesome abilities. Now that that's out of the way, I have an issue.
    This feels like it would take the unique-ness out of Tachypsychia and Panic Zealot. Yes, it is less powerful, but one of my personal favorites is building crazy builds with crazy MIDs, but when shaman can do these things without either of these, I just don't know.

    I never realized the thing about dances and Hymns, but now that I see this I want them all to be Hymns.

    Oh yea and better paladin need that in my life.
    Overall, I support the idea.
     
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  6. Elysium_

    Elysium_ Canyon Wanderer CHAMPION

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    It would take out some of the uniqueness, but imagine the even crazier builds you can make with that stuff. Hymn of Panic would stack with Furious Effigy, making Totem's effects 3x as fast. Panic Zealot with MotC might become a new Shaman meta!
    Obviously, I can't test it out in-game, but I think that Panic Zealot and Tachypsychia losing a bit of distinctiveness would be hella worth it for the huge possibilites of more unique builds and playstyles.
    haul spam meta??
     
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  7. Elytry

    Elytry Professional Amateur VIP

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    Actually, It would make it 4 times faster, seeing as the effects go from .4 seconds to .1.
    How does that have anything to do with Hymn of Panic?

    Actually, after reviewing this in my head, I'm less opposed realizing now (Sometimes my brain understands stuff but doesn't fully get it.) that this would only work with the -damage mask and require said mask, making a totemic shatter hymn of panic impossible.
     
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  8. Elysium_

    Elysium_ Canyon Wanderer CHAMPION

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    Oh yeah true. My mistake.
    It has to do with both Hymn of Panic and the new Frog Dance. You could theoretically spam Haul while holding shift to continuously drop down and deal damage, with the puddle that would be spawned from Frog Dance and maybe even Nature's Jolt. Hymn of Panic would make your totem deal more damage and follow you around, so you can have the crazy mobility from Frog Dance while still having your opponents' health being chipped away by your passive damage abilities.

    And yeah, Hymn of Panic is Coward mask exclusive.
     
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  9. ChrisWildfire

    ChrisWildfire Aspiring Airbender

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    I might need to clarify that a bit further.
    ________________________________
    But yes thank you for your feedback, my dude! Feel free to provide more constructive criticism, I'll hear you out!
     
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  10. ChrisWildfire

    ChrisWildfire Aspiring Airbender

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    made an edit and clarified that Hymn of Panic doesn't work while not wearing the Mask of the Coward
     
  11. ChrisWildfire

    ChrisWildfire Aspiring Airbender

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    further CLARIFICATION!!!!!!!
     
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  12. ineedhelp

    ineedhelp You need help?

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    beautiful once again
     
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  13. ChrisWildfire

    ChrisWildfire Aspiring Airbender

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    Thank you!!!
     
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  14. Lu1g0

    Lu1g0 Skilled Adventurer

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    As a paladin user, I agree to all of this
     
  15. ChrisWildfire

    ChrisWildfire Aspiring Airbender

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    I'm glad you like them!
     
  16. ChrisWildfire

    ChrisWildfire Aspiring Airbender

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    Hey everyone!

    Here's a variation of the reworked Frog Dance.

    frog dance 2.png

    This version would work less like Archer's Fierce Stomp where the ability would only trigger once you hold shift after casting Haul, and instead would trigger like Assassin's Bamboozle where holding shift while casting Haul would completely change how it would function.

    This version would make Haul much more controllable both for ritualists and summoners without changing how Haul fundamentally works. Combined with Hymn of Panic's Totem follow mechanic, ritualists utilizing the Mask of the Coward would be free to launch themselves wherever they please without worrying about losing Totem's damage or utility.

    Like the first version of the reworked Frog Dance, this ability would not require you to wear the Mask of the Coward before using the ability. Since its movement is not tied to your Totem, this ability can be cast even while your Totem is not active.

    Which Frog Dance rework do you prefer?
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2023
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  17. ElectricCurrent

    ElectricCurrent Using Hero incorrectly

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    Hey. It's the person who disagrees with everything again. Here to disagree, possibly under the guise of constructive feedback.

    ahem
    -
    Solar Aegis (and related)
    More dps options for Paladin is nice. At least I think so, given it functions for sake of tanking and buffs. Though it also does both of those things, so...
    The only thing I have to say is that it still feels too passive. You gain an AoE which constantly damages enemies. There is no required input, simply a field of hurt. I would have said to make it also charge sacred surge faster, but constant activation of most of your abilities already does that.
    Maybe stop it from breaking your mantle, that's better reserved for harder hits.

    -MoTC (and related)
    Ah. I do not think this is what being a coward means. You noted the fanatic mask being for burst dps at a range, and the fanatic mask as a closer range fighter class, leaving the coward mask without much purpose, but I really don't think that was their design philosophy.
    The masks serve just to improve your damaging, tanking, or moving abilities, with the cost reductions and penalties associated with such. Mask of The Coward is not meant for combat. It is for being a coward. That means being all slippery and leaving Places You Don't Want To Be. I suppose the reason it didn't see as much use is because there isn't much reason to run away as there is to heal past your problems.
    What I will say is that speeding up totem ticks for health regen is probably a reasonable change to the mask, maybe a system of debuffing nearby enemies could better support the idea of escaping danger...
    (On that note, just make Frog Dance reasonably controllable and it might be ok?)

    TLDR- Paladin is still too passive, Mask of The Coward is not a DPS option.
    Have a nice day, pretty please.
     
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  18. ChrisWildfire

    ChrisWildfire Aspiring Airbender

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    Hey, thank you for the feedback! As long as we're being constructive, there really isn't anything unproductive about disagreeing a lot, so feel free to disagree anytime!

    Solar Aegis does seem like a passive ability at first, but it's constant self-damage is what makes the ability exciting to use! Most of paladin's abilities trigger from taking damage. Solar Aegis would trigger abilities like Manachism and Rejuvenating Skin, which leads to triggering other abilities like Sparkling Hope, which leads to Sacred Surge charging way faster!

    I believe the reason why paladin feels very passive and boring is because most of its abilities are responses to taking hits, which something players can only do so much about. Solar Aegis adds this option of dealing damage directly to yourself for the sake of triggering these abilities, adding more player influence to paladin's kit to make the archetype more engaging to play overall!

    My intention behind Solar Aegis consuming mantle charges is to make Shield Strike trigger more often, however I can imagine it possibly doing more harm than good because of Mantle of the Bovemist's cooldown.

    Some players have mentioned that paladin should have a way to reduce Mantle of the Bovemist's cooldown, and I agree! Perhaps Divine Intervention should also reduce Mantle of the Bovemist's cooldown by -1s for every 1% Holy Power you gain from Sacred Surge, which would reward an active playstyle with more survivability and damage!

    That is... an interesting take.

    I don't see anything inherently wrong with making Mask of the Coward more viable for combat. Even so, one does not need to reduce the Mask's ability to get you out of sticky situations just to make the Mask more combat-oriented.

    Seeking Totem/Hymn of Panic gives ritualists more movement freedom by making the Totem adjust to the player's position. Hymn of Panic making Totem ticks faster makes it deal more damage, but it also makes Regeneration heal for much more like you said! Overall, this design of Mask of the Coward would make it the best Mask option for recovering from a bad situation, perhaps brought about by MotL's resistance reduction or MotF's low mobility. This would make MotC more helpful in combat in a way that fits with its original design of helping you escape from danger!

    I am actually currently working on a new post about ritualist which would deal with these problems in a more holistic way. Expect a new post soon!

    You should check out my second version of Frog Dance, which is in the replies!


    But yes thank you so much for your feedback! I hope you have a nice day as well!
    ________________________________
    I've also received more feedback about Solar Aegis from the Wynncraft discord.

    I'll be making small changes to both abilities soon! Thank you so much for the support and feedback y'all!!
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2023
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  19. ChrisWildfire

    ChrisWildfire Aspiring Airbender

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    I edited the post, y'all! Here's what I changed:
    -Solar Aegis now heals once it ends
    -Flames of Resurrection no longer sets your health to a certain amount when it triggers (Solar Aegis will do that for you now)
    -Hymn of Panic no longer reduces Regeneration's healing
    -added the different version of Frog Dance in the post

    Thank you so much for the feedback, everyone!
     
    Elysium_ likes this.
  20. Phanleanhkhoi

    Phanleanhkhoi Severely skill issued adventurer

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    A solid brick of text. Why did you not put a subway surfer next to it? I fell asleep after 2 minutes. I can't concentrate