World Grimtrap

ok prove it

try getting over 40k spins with a grim k


without using specialist

 

ok well then that means you dont know anything

you dont even know what youre talking about

 

though pure needs buffs, level 65 wand or not. It still is useless for its level with Wands its level doing around its level dmg that are plenty times more cheap and aren't spell dmg based like Ohm's wishes against a 400% or so pure. Pure might need some reworkings, maybe make it have other uses?

 

cataclysm doesnt do 40k spins
i got like 80% thunder/spell damage and my max spin is 32k

 

ok sry

 

?

________________________________

it can with rems build

but yeh 5 hp u know

 

ik weet het maar wat je zegt is gwn


wat.

xd

 

ok lol

 

#BUFFGRIMTRAP

 

buff strati

 

yes and grimtrap

 

buff my money too pls

 

OK back on topic with this thread, I can agree that Grimtrap does need nerfs in identifications and may be damage. Grimtrap is able to strive in both PvE and PvP.

Let's take a quick summary of what Grimtrap has so far:
- Tall (okay - insane) ranges of life steal/4s
- Tall (okay - insane) ranges of thorns %
- Can have little negative mana steal
- Some strength
- Some poison
- Small positive walk speed %
- Small earth defense %


... or just take a look at this, you get the idea.



Now I am going to prove just how strong Grimtrap can be:

Spoiler: PvE

PvE

Hey for all of you that care attention to the forums just a month after Gavel's release, do you remember how people used life steal? Life steal used to be fulfilled 100% of the time whenever a sort of attack was used. Both melee and spell... that began the popularity of the Executioner Helmet.



Don't worry, this isn't the current Executioner Helmet. It was the one back then that was also nerfed days after... why? Salted responded with this:



If just 400 life steal is already considered insane in its own terms by Salted, what makes Grimtrap's average (+480/4s) life steal? Grimtrap's life steal is quite high and I feel it should be tweaked -- lower its maximum life steal. Even if it may be a Mythic-tier item! I know Grimtrap has low life steal as well, but it can range as high as a full-on life steal build. The worst part about this? Only assassins can wield this "life steal build". No other classes.

Getting slightly off-topic. Point is, Grimtrap's life steal is quite high even though it's a Mythic-tier item. Grimtrap's life steal needs a nerf.

"But then the idea of certain melee/spell life steal got nerfed."

Sure, life steal as a whole was tweaked after the nerfing of Executioner Helmet, just so it isn't that frequent at the same time it scales with your tier of attack speed, and only affects melee attacks. But imagine Grimtrap hitting a group of who knows, 10 mobs. Somewhere there that Grimtrap life steal is going to activate, and pretty much, Grimtrap users are probably not going to die while grinding, already making potions useless to them.

"But it's a Mythic-tier item! Mythics are supposed to bring wins at their level."

True, as well as with this life steal, it being a Grimtrap won't sound much like a "Grimtrap" without some grim reaper-type life steal. But we haven't even touched the other identifications yet, or the damage, or hadn't even compared it with other mythic daggers around that level. I mean, there exists some Mythic-tier items that already that got nerfed, like Az, because it just dealt too much damage. Just because it is a Mythic-tier item doesn't mean it can't be nerfed. Even with Grimtrap! Already with discussing its life steal, any more identifications can make Grimtrap sound a little overwhelming. We'll get into that soon.

"But Salted designed Mythic-tier items. Of course, he would know what he is doing when it comes to Grimtrap."



Sometimes even Salted does not know truly how much power a Mythic can hold. I know he's not being that serious in this picture, but really -- does Salted really know just how overpowered some Wynncraft features can be? Especially when it comes to Mythics. Like, considering all the possible builds you can make up, using the item system to your advantage... look at something like corrupted Lost Sanctuary rewards. There's just so many different types of in-game equipment that differ so much from each other. It's hard to keep track of all these hidden gameplay variables when you are busy being an administrator of Wynncraft.



Now let's take a look at Grimtrap's other identifications. I'm not going to lie, some of the other Grimtrap identifications are quite the expectation for a Mythic-tier dagger. The positive strength, the positive poison/3s, and the positive earth defense %.

Just in Grimtrap's thorns %, it can inflict Grimtrap's already-given poison if the thorns % succeeds. The thing about Grimtrap's thorns % is just like with its life steal/4s, it can range too high. And just like I suggested with life steal/4s, the maximum thorns % needs a large downgrade cause it should take at least some effort to get 100% thorns out of just Grimtrap itself. This matters because Grimtrap can not only inflict damage back at its enemies and poison them, but Grimtrap's life steal is enough to sustain the player. Grimtrap's leading identifications -- poison/3s, life steal/4s, thorns % -- is already enough to make a player live for an eternity while constantly dealing damage back.

The negative mana steal won't serve that much of a disadvantage because this earth dagger does not primarily go for melee hits but spell hits as well. This can also be easily countered in two ways: get a piece of equipment with at least +1/4s mana steal or get a Grimtrap without the negative mana steal. That way, using Grimtrap has no disadvantages. Grimtrap would be essentially more balanced if it were to have more negative identifications other than the mana steal/4s.

The positive walk speed is quite odd for an earth dagger, despite it being Mythic-tier. The typical earth dagger is considered "slow-hitting" and "heavy to carry". And Grimtrap is "slow-hitting" and "not too heavy to carry". I'm quite sure Grimtrap is supposed to lower walk speed to carry out its high damage.

"Wait a second! Grimtrap is the only Mythic-tier dagger that does not have an increase in damage % to the other Mythic-tier daggers! The identifications that Grimtrap has solely makes up for its no damage %. See here!"

"Grimtrap's leading identifications -- poison/3s, life steal/4s, thorns % -- is already enough to make a player live for an eternity while constantly dealing damage back." - As I explained earlier. Sometimes you don't even notice that small increase of damage %, especially when it comes from a weapon like it was already pre-determined with the weapon's base damage. Except with Grimtrap's identifications, you can really see the difference. Grimtrap's identifications are very useful while in combat, while a portion of damage % is not as important. And in thorns %'s and poison/3s's current state, it's not that far from being abusable.



And we'll get into damage now. Grimtrap's base damage is super high for a dagger. I know it's a Mythic-tier item, so I am going to compare it with another Mythic-tier item of same attack speed tier and element. Let's compare it with something like Grandmother (I know Grimtrap (96) is a level higher than Grandmother (95) but Grimtrap has 10 less strength as the minimum strength for use than comparing to Grandmother. Grandmother also has an extra powder slot and supposedly has higher damage for its negative health regen.)

First things first before comparing a bow and a dagger, the bow has a higher base damage than the dagger because archer "melee" attacks can only hit one enemy at a single time, while a dagger can "slash" more than one enemy at a time.

Spoiler: Grimtrap & Grandmother

Spoiler: Average Damage Calculations

Grimtrap Average Damage:
Neutral: (320+370)/2 = 690/2 = 345
Earth: (455+590)/2 = 1045/2 = 522.5 = 523 (Rounded up)

OVERALL GRIMTRAP AVERAGE DAMAGE: 345 + 523 = 868

Grandmother Average Damage:
Neutral: (205+290)/2 = 495/2 = 247.5 = 248 (Rounded up)
Earth: (410+540)/2 = 950/2 = 475

OVERALL GRANDMOTHER AVERAGE DAMAGE: 248 + 475 = 723


OVERALL GRIMTRAP AVERAGE DAMAGE > OVERALL GRANDMOTHER AVERAGE DAMAGE

I probably missed small differences throughout my calculations (if there exist any), but to get a 145 damage difference between the two Mythic-tier slow, earth weapons, it's not hard to say that Grimtrap beats Grandmother in base damage when Grandmother is apparently supposed to beat Grimtrap in base damage.

Okay, enough with comparing because maybe it's not too fair to compare Mythic-tier items. From what I personally saw, Grimtrap offers 4k melee hits and 12k spin attacks without any earth powder specials, 20k spin attacks with earth powder specials when activated greatly. Excellent damage and with those identifications, it is a Mythic-tier dagger capable of much damage, super sustainability (life steal/4s), and utility (poison/3s, and thorns% the most.)

If Grimtrap falls along the path of melee and spell damage, I feel it would be best for Grimtrap's base damage to be nerfed, both in neutral and earth damage, to make up for that "super sustainability" and "utility", then have a trade of positive melee damage % and more negative spell damage % and a little strength to influence the use of Grimtrap melee. Maybe change that walk speed negative too, I still don't get why a slow earth dagger would have positive walk speed. Upgrade earth defense because typical earth users are quite tanky, but it would be strange for a Grimtrap user to not be that resistant against other earth users. Also, raise the strength requirement! All the Grimtrap users I had ever seen had some sort of tank in them, and with that sustain, everything is just too easy. Raising the strength minimum will require them to plan more ahead with going a tanky build.

Maybe I do not know any better, but this is what I somewhat expect Grimtrap to be like in the end:

Spoiler: Custom Grimtrap

Grimtrap

• Slots: 3
• Damage: 295-350
• ✤ Earth Damage: 440-510
• Attack Speed: Slow

• Lv. Min: 96
• Strength Min: 110

• Life Steal: +150/4s to +430/4s
• Mana Steal: 0/4s to -1/4s
• Spell Damage: -28% to -54%
• Melee Damage: +8% to +39%
• Strength: +4 to +21
• Thorns: +8% to +28%
• Speed: -2% to -14%
• Poison: +285/3s to +1235/3s
• ✤ Earth Defense: +6 to +21

Spoiler: PvP

PvP

Spoiler: Note

Only the players really care about PvP, so I made it simple with a few pictures.

For those who actually care to read, thorns % inflicts the damage back to the opponent first before the thorns % user actually takes damage. This makes it hard for people who actually win the duel because they don't actually win the duel since the other guy has thorns. And Grimtrap being the pinnacle of thorns %, there is not much chance to win against a Grimtrap user in a duel.






Maybe remove one of either: thorns or reflection. I feel like at least one of them just makes Wynncraft's system hard to understand. Oh yeah, probably nerf the left out one too. I'm being serious! If League of Legends were to have the same sort of thing, they would remove one of them. I know this isn't an MOBA but already, the WC system can really be hard to understand as it is not that straight-forward!

 

That's either a call to nerf the hell out of grimtrap, or buff the crap out of grandmother.

Honestly, though. Grandmother also needs a buff. I may seem a little repetitive about this, but not only does it do less damage, but have 0 thorns, 0 poison, 0 lifesteal, -259 to -400-something health regen, negative walk speed, and lower damage. With those kinds of IDs, Grandmother should have, at least, more dps than the bloody Hive Bow. Optimally, Gma would have the highest DPS of all bows to make up for its nosebleed IDs.

 

I thought thorns only affected melee...?

 

no it affects all

 

...

 

My grandma gives you nosebleed ? Ew. Jk dun hurt me.

 

Bumping this because this needs to be changed.