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World Gathering Tool Powder Slots

Discussion in 'General Suggestions' started by Sg_Voltage, Feb 29, 2020.

?

Should this be added?

  1. Yes

  2. Needs some change (Please explain)

  3. No

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Sg_Voltage

    Sg_Voltage For Legal Reasons, My Last Custom Title Was a Joke HERO

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    Minecraft:
    The elemental system is the core to the entire game. Essentially every element of the game is built around the idea of elemental strengths and weaknesses, except for the gathering system, which is completely unrelated. As the title says, my suggestion is to add powder slots to gathering tools. There are two main parts to this idea; What the powders do and how the slots are allocated. I'll start with the more interesting part;

    Gathering Tool T11 Powder.jpg
    Example of how a T11 Pickaxe would look with powder slots
    What would Powders do?
    As of now, powders are used on weapons and armor to increase elemental damage and defense. Since tools don't have a need for elemental buffs, I figured the next best thing would be to add elemental based gathering buffs. For example, air is associated with speed, so air powder would give you faster gathering or thunder which is associated with luck, so thunder powder gives a higher chance of getting 3* resources. For fire and earth some choices needed to be made to have balance make sense, but otherwise each other element makes perfect sense.

    Screenshot_2020-02-29 Wynncraft - Elemental Gathering Tools - Google Docs.png
    Elements and their associated abilities and drawbacks

    Refining Chance - Increases the chance of a gathered resource being refined. Every time a resource is gathered, a roll is done to determine if a good should be gathered. With this stat at 85%, there would be an 85% chance of an additional roll and if either is successful, the resource is gathered.
    Good for gathering Mats for profession leveling, bad for the impatient. This is balanced so the increased refining leads to more resources even with the slowdown.

    Gathering Speed - Increases the speed of gathering. With a 50% boost, you harvest 50% faster and with a 100% boost it would be the same as double harvesting speed.
    Good for gathering mats and XP, takes a lot more scrap and trips to the blacksmith.

    Durability Use* - Decreases the chance of a durability point being used when gathering. This function could do one of two things (assume the stat is at 50%), 1) Do a roll every time a point would go down., every time the durability would go down there would be a 50% chance of it not changing. 2) Increasing the overall durability by 50%. I don't know if there is a way to change the durability so the first option is probably the most realistic.
    Good for grinding both gathering and profession levels, bad for getting high tier mats.

    3 Star Chance - Increases the chance of getting 3* drops when refining. Works off the base 1% at the expense of 1* resources. If the chance of getting a 1* is 95% and the chance of a 3* is 1%, with a 100% buff to 3* chance the new odds would be a 94% chance of 1* and a 2% chance of 3*. When this stat is negative and 100%, it wouldn't be impossible to get 3*, it would be half as likely per 100% chance, so with -200% there would be a 0.25% chance of a 3*.
    Good for gathering high tier mats, really bad for grinding profession levels.

    Gathering XP - Acts as a direct buff to XP gain from gathering. Works the same way as hunted mode or double gathering XP bombs.
    Good for grinding gathering levels, bad for grinding profession levels.

    Like the existing element system, when a powder is used, it reduces the power of the element weak to it (Thunder reduces water damage, fire reduces air damage, ect.). For this reason, I've added drawbacks which reduce the benefits of the powders. This makes it a system of trade-offs, where if you want more XP, you can't get as many resources or if you want to refine faster, you need to make more trips to the blacksmith. Like with the current powder system, multiple powders of different elements can be combined to allow for the trade-off to be changed, so by using a fire, water and a thunder powder, you could have an increased chance of getting 3*'s with a slower gathering speed.

    Below you can see the exact numbers I think would work, but of course these are subject to change;

    Screenshot_2020-02-29 Wynncraft - Elemental Gathering Tools - Google Docs(1).png

    Screenshot_2020-02-29 Wynncraft - Elemental Gathering Tools - Google Docs(2).png

    As I previously mentioned, I spent a while looking over the numbers to make sure they look good, but I'm only one dude, so if you think the numbers need some work, let me know and I'll see what I can do ;)

    Where do the powder slots come from?
    Okay, so now that I've explained why you would want powders on your tools, how do you do it? Same way as everything else, tools have powder slots and you use powders with the powder master to enhance your tools.

    Each tool has 1, 2 or 3 slots which would be set based on the tier of the tools. All the gold tools would have 1 slot, all the iron tools would get 2 slots and the diamond tools get 3 slots. Simple as that. By slowly allowing for more powder slots, the player would be able to slowly control more of their gathering experience until they eventually have the ability to either focus on one aspect of gathering (speed, gathering 3*, ect) or re balance their downsides allowing players to mix elements to get different trade-offs.

    Powder Manual Vol 4
    Finally, powder masters have manuals in their buildings which give a tutorial on powders. With a change like this, a new volume would be needed to explain powdered tools and I would place them in all Gavel towns after Olux (Gelibord, Cinfras, ect) and maybe in Lutho.

    Conclusion
    Thanks for reading, make sure to vote and let me know if you have any suggestions or feedback (If you think it's bad, please elaborate so I can actually do something about it, don't worry, I can take harsh feedback).

    Changes
    Changed harvesting speed to a fixed speed boost rather than be based on chance. Thanks Druser!
     
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2020
  2. Druser

    Druser ele defs don't matter HERO

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    Looks pretty nice. I think the gathering speed change should be just a multiplier to the tool speed, because random tick chances would just make it really frustrating to gather.
     
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  3. Sg_Voltage

    Sg_Voltage For Legal Reasons, My Last Custom Title Was a Joke HERO

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    I can't believe I never thought of that. I don't know how the harvesting speed works, but that's a fantastic idea!
     
  4. Lost Skylaar

    Lost Skylaar Sometimes people just want to be left alone

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    This is an interesting idea, but I dont really think it will work in the end
    ________________________________
    (I'm using "could use somee changes" as "I'm on neither side")
     
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  5. btdmaster

    btdmaster Famous Adventurer

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    I actually really like this. May need some minor fine-tuning if it was added, but actually really nice idea. Would spice up profs a little more and make more people buy powders
    Also, dura use reduction could use a buff imo- 30% really isn't very good when you could be getting stuff like 50% more gathering xp
    Also also is this per powder? Cause that's a little op imo. If not, seems pretty fine
     
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  6. Epicness937

    Epicness937 Thesead water god. HERO

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    I like this idea alot
    I do think the drawbacks for earth and water should be swapped personally.

    As for power slots what would be the point of using more than one t6 fire? Or can I also combine it with other powders then? Sorry if I mentioned that and I just missed it. But yeah very nice suggestion I think we really could use this.
     
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  7. Sg_Voltage

    Sg_Voltage For Legal Reasons, My Last Custom Title Was a Joke HERO

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    The idea is that it would be per powder. As for the XP being OP, the idea is that you could get at most 200% with 3 t6 waters, but you would also have a 0% refining chance so you wouldn't be able to level any professions, so if the goal was to get your level up before gathering, it wouldn't really be faster. I do agree though that the XP values are way too high, so I'll give it some more though. Maybe I'll cap it out at 33% per t6 instead of 50%.

    I'm torn on increasing the durability perk too much more. Since the drawback to durability is only 3* chance, you get a fairly good buff with very little drawback if your goal is to gather resources for crafting since nobody mainly uses 3* for leveling crafting anyways.

    Anyways, that's some good feedback. I'll make sure to give those stats a look over, so thanks!
    ________________________________
    The way fire works is like a dice, so even though it's +100% chance, you don't actually have a 100% chance of refining. The best analogy I can think of is say every time you gather a dice is rolled, and if a even number is rolled, you get a mat, if an odd number is rolled you fail. by having a +100%, instead of rolling one dice, you roll two and if either is even, you get a mat. It could in theory go up to +300%, so with 3 t6 fires you would basically get 4 dice to roll. You can never quite get to a 100% chance, but you can get very, very close.

    As for why water is XP, water is generally associated in Wynn with XP buffs. I wanted to keep the buffs to what they are on armor and weapons, so I still think XP should stay with water. I do agree the balance might be a little better if they were swapped, but I think the consistency is worth more than a small balance tweak which could be fixed by just changing values.
    ________________________________
    On its own I can fully support your view, it isn't really needed so I can totally agree, but if housing eventually gets added (check out this; https://forums.wynncraft.com/thread...housing-includes-demonstration-detail.263663/) and getting plot blocks requires harvesting resources from various low level sources I think a system like this would be much more relevant. That being said, thanks for actually taking the time to leave some feedback, it means a lot <3
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2020
  8. Epicness937

    Epicness937 Thesead water god. HERO

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    How is water associated with xp buffs??? anyways no i mean the debuffs should be swapped between water and earth not the buffs.

    as for the dice thing that's not how the code works at all to my knowledge, sounds like and utter nightmare to code, sounds extremely confusing, and is way more difficult than just "x% higher chance than before"
     
  9. Sg_Voltage

    Sg_Voltage For Legal Reasons, My Last Custom Title Was a Joke HERO

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    It isn't how the code works, but its how statistics works, which is why I called it an analogy. The point I was trying to make is that a +100% buff wouldn't be a guaranteed harvest. I guess if you want the actual data each 100% gain would cut the probability of failure in half so if there was a 70% success rate and you had a 100% buff it would increase to 85%.

    As for the XP gain being linked to water, the vast majority of XP buffing items are water or thunder (or both) and thunder was taken by a more luck based trait and the potion of wisdom. Basically, XP can only really be water or thunder and thunder was taken. Also, based on how the rock paper scissors system in Wynn works it doesn't make sense to change the drawbacks. The drawbacks need to be connected to the buffs, so if you change one, you need to change both.
     
  10. btdmaster

    btdmaster Famous Adventurer

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    Also, I don't know if you meant to do this, but the elements' debuffs are lined up in the way that powders work in general- buff to one ele, nerf to the next one over(except reversed order)
     
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  11. Sg_Voltage

    Sg_Voltage For Legal Reasons, My Last Custom Title Was a Joke HERO

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    Yeah, that was the intention. The goal was to try and mirror the way powders work on armor and tools (a powder adds more than it takes away for example) and keeping the rock paper scissors was important to having the idea make sense relative to the current game.
     
  12. Sg_Voltage

    Sg_Voltage For Legal Reasons, My Last Custom Title Was a Joke HERO

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    bumpppppppppp
     
  13. VeeeKoooN

    VeeeKoooN Demon Forge Master of WFa - http://cpc.cx/r1b VIP+

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    Free bump; good idea need more suggestions like this
     
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  14. EpicUsername

    EpicUsername Travelled Adventurer

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    Good siggestion Here's a bump for you
     
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  15. Sg_Voltage

    Sg_Voltage For Legal Reasons, My Last Custom Title Was a Joke HERO

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    necrobumperino
     
  16. Gigavern

    Gigavern Famous Adventurer VIP+

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    I think it's reasonable to say that gathering could also use some things to break up the monotony. Perhaps powder specials could be integrated into this as well.
     
  17. Señor TopHat

    Señor TopHat Professional Aledar Hater and The Wybel Doctor

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    This seems pretty interesting, i like it. although at the end may need some little fine toning and polishing but i'd love to see this in game.
     
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  18. Sg_Voltage

    Sg_Voltage For Legal Reasons, My Last Custom Title Was a Joke HERO

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    I'll need to give that some thought on what they would actually be, but that's a fantastic idea!

    Thanks! I've never been too good with balance so I totally agree it could use some polish but I appreciate the support!
     
  19. Sg_Voltage

    Sg_Voltage For Legal Reasons, My Last Custom Title Was a Joke HERO

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  20. DogeTennant

    DogeTennant Well-Known Adventurer HERO

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    looks really good, I would probably get into gathering more with these changes.
     
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