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Discord Moderators

Discussion in 'General Suggestions' started by WynnMilkman, Jul 30, 2020.

?

Should Discord Moderator be added?

  1. Yes!

  2. With a couple of modifications, I think it would work.

  3. Absolutely not. (Please say why)

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. WynnMilkman

    WynnMilkman Detlas AFK Gang HERO

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    As a person that's pretty active in the Wynn Discord, or at least used to be, it's pretty easy to see the general lack of moderation. Obviously, mods can't be online 24/7 since they have personal lives, have to moderate in-game, and also need some time to actually play the game for themselves.
    This brings us to the topic of this suggestion: discord exclusive moderators!
    Use Spoilers below to navigate.

    The idea of this position is simple. Their main purpose is to moderate the discord exclusively so that rules are actually enforced.
    Obviously, it's up to admins and staff on whether to accept this and how to implement this position if it does get added, but here are just some suggestions.
    Implementing:
    One example I would like to look back at is the role "Community-Helper" found in the Wynn Discord. Objectively, it failed. People didn't utilize it very much, and the one time they did it was mostly for jokes when the role was first released. Although one could argue it was because it was in trial-phase, announcing the role actually existed in the description of roles in the discord or something like that could've seen it more widely used.
    So, if the discord moderator role were to be added, I think slightly editing the normal Moderator position description to emphasize in-game moderation as well as add a discord moderator position that emphasizes discord moderation would be important. It would also be crucial that the moderators would be active and generally just use the discord even when not moderating. (i.e. just people that are online a lot)

    Applications:
    I don't really have much experience with how moderator applications work, besides the questions that appear on the application. Below I'll post some sample questions that I think could work, but are obviously not refined or perfect. (also a lot of these are based on original mod app questions rofl)
    1. Do you have any moderating experience?
    2. Have you ever been muted/banned on the discord?
    3. How active are you on the Wynn Discord? (I wanted to ask messages but people can easily message farm so)
    Of course, age, ign, timezone, email, discord and the other basics would also be included. I personally don't believe discord mods should get an in-game rank, but that would really only be an issue if the person were applying for the rank for recognition.
    Also regarding the existing ping-able Moderator rank, if this was implemented there would still be a use for it, just slightly altered. Since the ping-able Moderator was on a volunteer-basis and served as a way for players to notify mods for discord moderation, discord moderators would mandatorily have to have that role.
    Just to clarify, the people that I had in mind for discord moderators while making this post are people that normally use the Wynncraft discord frequently anyway, and therefore should still see some issues even without being pinged.
    I would also like to address existing Moderators on the Wynncraft discord. I think some of the Moderators spend enough time on the Wynncraft discord and therefore should also get the Discord Moderator role. However, I do think Moderators should have to apply as well.
    This was one of the main reasons I was pretty hesitant to post this thread. At first I thought that there would be a lot of overlap in work, especially dealing with bans, since they have to deal with each player individually, and players have a discord and in-game account.
    So, what happens to a player on the discord when they get banned in-game?
    Well, nothing. And I say that with personal experience. Citing FREAKCROW's HIT SONG Nirvana at 1 minute and 41 seconds, "If you're name is Christofu, then you're probably banned."
    I blame my lack of knowledge on how moderator stuff works on this point and any kind of sharing on how the two positions overlap more would be appreciated. However, from what I now, bans are separate, mutes are separate, and one of the only things that I can think of in-common are ranks.
    This ties into the section above. As quoted from Toy in the thread in the credits below, the proper usage of the ping-able moderator role is for players, and now, discord bots.
    Discord Moderators should have permissions to deal with the discord bots, and also the player reports section of the forums exists, but I almost never see it used ever. I think if discord issues are dealt with my discord moderators, and in-game issues are primarily dealt with in the player reports section of the forum, there shouldn't be any extensive communication necessary between in-game and discord mods.

    Just some thoughts after writing this:
    I would consider myself a pretty active person on the Wynn discord, and although I don't have as high message count as some people, I do think that I have some credibility and qualification to write this. This also has been a pretty popular suggestion in general but I haven't really seen a proper thread on it, so here it is.
    Even if this doesn't get added, which I honestly see little chance of this being added, I hope this just brings the issue that it feels like Mods have too many responsibilities to be moderating the discord 24/7, and that quite frankly the discord lacks moderation.
    And it honestly sucks to see the whole "Moderator" position as a whole get shit on on the discord server by people complaining about how Mods aren't doing anything without recognizing the fact that Moderators are also humans and players that enjoy the game themselves.
    Anyway, that's honestly all, if you have any suggestions please leave and thanks for reading this far.

    [​IMG]

    Me
    Everyone in Wynn Discord with Discord Mod Suggestions
    THIS THREAD: https://forums.wynncraft.com/threads/something-about-discord-and-moderation.251383/
    specifically to @ActualDaywalker and @Toy__ (sorry pinging both of y'all but had to give credit)
    Drew a lot of the main ideas from it, and specifically this quote from toy.
    "For the time that the user is in the cool down for joining the server, if there is one, have them only see one specific channel that explains everything that they need to do, such as reading pinned messages, rules, using channels properly, not tagging mods when they are stuck in blocks etc. This can most likely be done via bots that automatically assigns a role after x minutes have passed."
     
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  2. Kahsol

    Kahsol Local Serial Liker VIP+

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    I’m not active on the discord, but if what u say it’s true this sounds like a pretty good and seemingly simple idea
     
  3. _Dazzle

    _Dazzle HTTP 401: Unauthorized VIP

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    While Discord Moderators would sound great on paper, keep in mind that Moderators themselves are more or less capable of handling most every issue you see, most of the time.

    This would indeed diversify the Staff team... but I'm not sure how would that work.
     
  4. WynnMilkman

    WynnMilkman Detlas AFK Gang HERO

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    There's a significant difference between capable and available. Of course I dont doubt the competence of the mod team but rather if they would have the time to devote doing all their assigned tasks. Also there have been multiple incidents where mods have not been able to show up on time, and just the fact that I have gotten away with posting so much off topic stuff in #wynncraft kind of shows it.
     
  5. Fleega

    Fleega what do i put here, oh wait this is good

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    Before someone else goes to make the joke, the various times people have said this:
    mod lol.png
     
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  6. WynnMilkman

    WynnMilkman Detlas AFK Gang HERO

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    sry fleega best mod
     
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  7. _Dazzle

    _Dazzle HTTP 401: Unauthorized VIP

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    I've read the posts in the OP, and... well, it kind of shows why. Argument withdrawn.
     
  8. Dwicey

    Dwicey I don't know, I just build a lot now VIP+ Builder

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    I want to say no and say that this is a pretty unnecessary addition, but sometimes the Discord is honestly terribly moderated

    Quoting my own Discord thread from 2017...
    "There's gonna be people like that on every server, however, in most cases, they're dealt with within a relatively short amount of time, but not in the Wynn Discord. Even if moderators are tagged and look through chat they just usually say "yo kiddos don't do that stuff over here" and leave without giving any real warning or making a real effort at actually moderating, meaning people are just gonna continue posting their annoying shit and making people use other text channels for actual conversations, which mods just have to pick up on and tell them "y0 kiddos go general". What I am trying to say is that rules aren't enforced enough, which leads to breaking even more rules."
    Though since then, Discord has become much less of a clusterfuck and is overall pretty good now
     
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  9. Saya

    Saya yeah don't mislead newbies thanks VIP+

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    Summary: Maybe name the pingable discord mod role "Discord Mod" instead of the current "Moderator" and "Moderators"
    I want to say no and say that this is a pretty unnecessary addition, but sometimes basically all the time, the Discord is honestly terribly moderated not moderated at all

    In all seriousness, it would be great if banning DM bots was the only moderation necessary. And obviously, it isn't. There's already pingable and unpingable moderators anyway, why not have some people be discord mods exclusively, so the game moderators can do game moderator things?

    Mod pings for simple questions and getting unstuck:
    Hey look, it's the community helper paradox.
    The role isn't told to new members because community helper is such a small program, but the program can't grow because there's very few people pinging the role... because no one's told about it and pings mods instead!


    TL;DR:
    Discord moderators would take stress off of everyone. The general role of "moderator(s)" only hurts transparency and makes it seem like most of the mods aren't doing anything, because there's really nothing being done on the discord.


    Anyway
    upload_2020-7-31_6-16-16.png
    It's about time for some discord moderation instead of people having to self-moderate, yeah?
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2020
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  10. Yraw

    Yraw Water Fountain

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    yes very cool idea worthwhile and cool +1
     
  11. oinuk

    oinuk volcano spell :relaxed:

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    yeah i discord moderators are definitely needed
    not much for me to say here except for a couple thoughts on the subject

    -personally, i would really love it if there was an actual fucking way to report on discord. like, why have an entire channel dedicated to #bug_and_player_reports which just redirects you to the forums, where people may not have an account or other complications preventing them from using the forums to report. if i see someone doing questionable shit on discord, i would not go all the way to the forums just to report them. that's frankly too much effort to deal with when i could just block them and not have to deal with their shit anymore. if there was a way to report in discord, i feel like a lot more people would be motivated to actually report, and help keep the discord a cleaner and more welcoming place. this could be a topic for a new thread somewhere but this thread is close enough to at least put the thoughts on that here.

    -i believe that i have seen a moderator refer to discord moderation as a "long-term solution." great. but.... the wynncraft discord has 45,000 members. it has existed for years. i think. that maybe. just maybe. it might be time to implement a long-term solution.

    -self-moderation. that's the only form of moderation in the discord as of now. you may say that the discord is... not very rule-adhering. however, i would not say that this is from lack of trying. i have seen multiple people (with higher morals than me) attempt to enforce the rules to people breaking them, or at least alert them to their breaking of the rules. however, since the people mini-modding have no actual authority, no one will listen to them, and thus, their efforts are largely ineffectual. i believe that part of the idea behind community-helper, along with having a pingable role for a specific purpose, was to give credibility to the help from them. in the case of community-helper, there were a ton of people answering questions, but not all of the answers were correct. generally, from what i've seen, community-helpers do a pretty ok job of giving accurate answers. having an actual "discord moderator" would give deserving people the authority needed to enforce rules, which is currently a major roadblock.

    -activity. making one of the requirements being actual activity in the discord is great. as of now, i'm sure that the mods are enabled to deal with the problems in the discord, if they had more numbers (or more time invested into moderation). however, even increasing the size of the team won't really do anything unless the moderators would be active in the wynncraft discord. as of now, i rarely see moderators actually being active in the discord. i'm sure that they occasionally lurk channels in case they can get a lucky find of someone breaking the rules, or so they can tell people to stay on topic, but having an active presence of a moderator would likely discourage a lot of the bull-shittery going on as of now. this isn't a slam against the mod team, i can fully see wanting to forsake the hellhole that wynncraft discord has become, but making sure that discord moderators would actually spend time in the discord, hopefully making their presence known, would assuredly increase the effectiveness of them.

    -don't pull the community-helper shit. please do not pull the community-helper shit. want to know about the community-helper shit? ok! pretty much, community-helper is fairly all right in concept, but the execution was fucking trash. like, abhorrent. atrocious. disgusting. garbage. repulsive. yeah. first of all, was it ever made known to anyone that the role existed? nope! no announcement, or even change to information sources that i'm aware of. if you saw the role, you probably had no idea what the fuck it was unless you had seen the thread or knew what the fuck was going on, which, i can tell you, was a very small amount of the discord. since no one knew what the hell the role was, why it existed, or what the fuck to do with it, no one ever used it for its intended purpose, and it is literally an obsolete role. i have literally seen people ping moderators about a question in the same channel as a community-helper actively discussing things. what. the. fuck? also, they added literally 3 community-helpers, and one of them was already qa. three people is not anywhere close to being able to fulfill the needs of what was needed. if discord moderators are implemented (which they 100% should be) then there definitely needs to be an announcement about them and a larger implementation group. and a consistently growing group, but i'm hoping the fact that actual applications exist for this will prevent the stagnation that happened with community-helper.

    yep, overall, a necessary idea. if this isn't implemented, the discord is going to continue becoming hell. i really hope that someone who can change something realizes that.
     
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  12. Bart (MC)

    Bart (MC) Ambivalence Cult VIP+

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    Fairly certain this got added within days after the Community Helper role was added, so no, not really. Kind of what happens when the people who don't read anything are the ones in need of help, though.

    Although you're being very unclear about what exactly you mean by this as you just name it, I'd just like to reiterate that no kind of ban or mute should have any overlap on Discord or in-game.

    The Discord is, although sometimes not always active enough, moderated well. No, the topic and useless content rules aren't always enforced, but genrally the only actually bad things I see on Discord are the rare "baiters" (people who just want to stir up some trouble, usually in #off_topic, usually with loads of moving gifs and/or emotes, usually tagging people often) and the occasional inappropriate meme that stays around for just a little while too long. That's it, really. You don't usually see mods helping with people who ping them because stuck on block or anything, because people in the Discord tend to be very heplful.


    what is this saying
    mods don't know the game well because game bad design?

    I hope you can spot the irony in this sentence. The Discord is indeed for decent parts moderated by people talking in it at that moment, which makes sense and definitely helps both new players with questions and older players talking about other things out. The mods are usually just needed for answering questions (only if that channel ends up inactive- which it definitely has not) and removing/banning inappropriate things. The latter of which is solved by a simple ping of the orange tag, and it's usually gone within minutes.

    It should definitely be added to the information post in #rules_and_information, but you can also DM mods with evidence. Through Discord.

    As stated previously, this minimodding is both a good thing and works wonders, unless you find someone who's specifically baiting and trying to ruin people's day- at which point they wouldn't be stopped by actual, enforcing moderators anyway.

    My opinion on this entire debate is that we don't especially needs Discord moderators. Yes, we already have Toy, who only is a Discord mod, but I don't see this enormous, destructive lack of moderators everyone else has been seeing. The only real fixable issue I have would be a specific time frame with very little mod activity (which would be fixed by trying to find one or two more European mods). Most of what people on this thread are talking about is massively exaggerated, really. Discord moderation could improve, maybe a bit more than you'd expect, but they're not screwing things up or anything.

    An important part what people are not bringing up is that on Wynn, mods have high expectations from multiple sides, and as a result can't always be part of certain arguments, and especially not part of certain memery. Yes, active mods are always appreciated, but I feel like most people are forgetting that mods should first and foremost be moderators, and only then active. It's a really awkward balance of not being too involved but still being very active that I don't particularly see happening the way is described here. Best way is if some current mod follows Toys footsteps and goes from normal mod to Discord-only mod.

    I'm not against Discord-only mods, just don't think they're quite that necessary and not worth the time and effort needed for them.
     
  13. WynnMilkman

    WynnMilkman Detlas AFK Gang HERO

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    For your first point, I would like to say that at the very least an announcement could have been made. Also if you read the credits of OP you'll see toy's idea of having an information channel for newcomers when they arrive, which would solve almost every issue about being misinformed. Also, its generally agreed upon even by the community helpers themselves that the reason it failed is because it wasn't advertised at all. People are more likely to read rules and information or announcements then small text under a channel name, which for mobile users doesn't even pop up unless you press something else.

    For your second point, the reason I said that is because one of the main arguments against discord moderators is the assumption that there is a lot of overlapping work between in game and discord mods. Now, working with my limited knowledge I concluded that there really isnt that much overlap and that statement was me trying to emphasize that, but I can see that seeming unclear.

    Your next point brings up the fact that the discord is actually relatively well moderated. Rule 9 of the discord states "No trolling or baiting."
    One of example of this not being enforced whatsoever is the blue hats. Their intention was to obviously stir up trouble and it was super obvious. There is no disagreement that they were trolling/baiting. However, I can find at least 2 blue hats still in the Wynn Discord.
    This obviously isn't the only example and I don't want to bring up the message bots since I don't know enough about that situation yet, but its pretty obvious that the discord lacks moderation. Also the point of discord moderators isn't to answer help stuck in block questions.

    Not going to address the next point since I dont get that one either.

    It's not ironic. People try to self-moderate, and what happens is the trolls or rule breakers don't respect you unless you have some sort of authority over them. That's why we need rule enforcers in the first place.

    You say that people ruining peoples' days won't be stopped by a rule enforcer. But isnt that why mutes, warnings, and bans exist? I seriously don't get why a mod wouldn't warn or take some sort of action against a person for harassing another.

    You mention Toy, being a discord moderator. Well isn't it ironic that a discord moderator wants discord moderators? Like, you know you've got a problem if the discord only mod thinks that its bad enough to where more discord exclusive mods are needed.
    Additionally, the moderator code of conduct brings up the fact that some mods have specific roles. I think if they already have roles that delegate tasks, why not add a discord moderator role?
     
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  14. Saya

    Saya yeah don't mislead newbies thanks VIP+

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    Can't really disagree with your points TOO much, but this one bit stuck out to me.
    No one reads pins or channel descriptions. It's the first rule of discord.
     
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  15. Fleega

    Fleega what do i put here, oh wait this is good

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    Well, that's because of the actual interface of discord, those are at the top, yet new messages are down at the bottom, so most of the time, people aren't going to see them, since they're looking at the bottom of the screen to read what new messages there are.
    ... or just not reading anything, because they have their attention fully invested on the keyboard, and then they ask something that was literally answered two messages above them (and for extra points they might then tell you to tag them to give them the answer instead of waiting and keeping an eye on the thing to see if they get a response naturally. Geez)

    The pinned messages are a little more likely to be seen since it has the red indicator light on the icon. Meanwhile, the channel description has no indication that it has been changed if it has been updated, and then there's the fact that it's also incredibly easy to miss normally, since there's nothing to really make you want to look at the top middle of the screen. (I can't even remember if I noticed that they changed the questions' channel description to include the line about community helpers originally.)

    I have no knowledge on the mobile interface and how it looks, and if these issues are worse or aren't quite as bad, but from a computer-based experience, it's basically invisible.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2020
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  16. oinuk

    oinuk volcano spell :relaxed:

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    that's social interaction and i do not support this
    in theory, sure. it helps. but since they have no actual authority to do anything, and the rule-breakers know this, then the rule-breakers will continue. having people that actually have the ability to warn/mute/ban would.... help. this shouldn't have to be said because it's so damn obvious.
    i legitimately never knew this was here, and i'm sure 90% of the discord users didn't either. reason is obvious enough.
     
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  17. TrapinchO

    TrapinchO Free help with nearly everything! VIP+

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    Agree with the idea.

    Alternative:
    I think there could be something like Community Helper but moderator, picked by staff (which means no one can get in for malicious purposes) (they can still reject though). They could warn, mute etc. but not ban.
     
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