World Complete Rework Of Bob's Lore

Also I just wanna ask: What pushed you to replace Baab and Mooington? They were fine as they were, they didn't need to be replaced by a wolf and an ocelot

 

It wasn't my choice (and I don't remember when it was decided), but it seems that it's just because they aren't normal pet animals and the wolf and ocelot represent the snow forest and the jungle, both important parts of Bob's journey. (Also, since Baab was being moved from Maro Peaks anyways, it would've been even weirder to keep it as a sheep.) Also, it does seem a bit unrealistic that Bob would actually name his pets that, while Cluckles, Ocey, and Duke are, in my opinion, a bit more realistic for pet names.

 

Pretty sure Bob was originally a joke character, his pets also being jokes. Plus, his pets are iconic to him. Sometimes it's better to pay homage than it is to stay completely consistent.

 

Well, you could say that, but that's pretty solidly not the point of reworking all the outdated stuff. If this is implemented, it's up to the CT if they want to keep the old pet names, but we're going to prioritize consistency over nostalgia when revamping Bob's lore for consistency.
Also, Bob may have been a joke character at first, but he's now (and has been for years) one of the most important characters in the game, perhaps the single most important one in the player's home continent. Besides, seeing as Cluckles is staying almost completely untouched, Bob the zombie can remain purely as a joke mob in Ragni, etc., I don't really see the problem with changing the other two pets if they don't make sense.

 

What's stopping you from working around the fact that they don't make sense and instead giving them logical explanations? I know you're mostly working around what we know instead of making new stuff up, but would it really be that bad to just say ''bob met baab outside detlas and mooington at durum island''

Yes, I know Bob never really went on the seas, but Durum isn't that far and he could've stopped there on the way to Dead Island. He probably went to Detlas at some point.

 

Tell me, do you consider a cow and a sheep good pets?

A COW?

 

Yes, but there's still really no reason to. Just because it's possible that Bob would have taken a random sheep from Detlas and a random cow from Durum Isles or wherever, and named them "Baab" and "Mooington", doesn't make it at all likely, and if it weren't for nostalgia, we'd all be saying that sounds dumb. On the other hand, I can definitely see Bob taking a baby cockatrice, a wolf, and a jungle cat as pets.

But also, I don't really see much point in arguing this further. We both understand the other person's position, and neither of us is going to change our minds about it.

 

@Bunnylord what would you change?

 

Cows are holy animals in wynncraft so Mooington could serve as some kind of good luck charm

 

or maybe it was just salted jerking himself off lmao

 

I do actually also want to get in the discord, since I've been unable to find a link even with a prodigious amount of search function abuse and I would like to learn more of the lore.
I also consider it very rude to clog up threads with arguments between two people, even if both sides want to keep it civil, since it's pretty annoying for others.
Anyways, I already have a fair amount of things I want to add onto matteo's statements above, so if you're up for hearing my takes go for it.

 

That is because we can't post discord links on forums. All your chances would be my (almost unknown) website or just asking anyone :)
I will start a convo with you

1) How would be a cow useful?
2) Cows are big. This brings a lot of problens like transport, feeding etc.

 

As the person who suggested Skien be used here in the first place, I'll try and explain why he was chosen and what this means for his role.

Firstly, you make an assumption that Skien has been racist towards villagers forever, which is incorrect. The first reason I say this is because before 900 AP, he wouldn't of even known what villagers were, much less had a reason to hate them (though I assume this was just a formatting thing for you, I'll still mention it, sorry if it is unnecessary). The more important part though is the WHY for Skien's hatred of the villagers. See what Skien hates about them is their magic, as is evident from what he tells the player in The Altar of Sanctification. The reason he hates them and their magic is because the villagers essentially sold an easy solution to defending Wynn when Skien himself spent all that effort ultimately for nothing. It is not just mindless hatred, Skien's not liking villagers is based on his experiences with them. That being said it is important to look at the timeline for how in this Bob rewrite Skien becomes involved.

When Bob arrives in Troms it is directly after Skien's failure to defend the city (see Skien's Island basement signs, as well as the item lore for Locrian which presents it in a more readable way). In the current lore, Skien spends 20 years doing literally nothing after his failure to defend Troms, which hardly makes sense as only after 900 AP would the people of Troms get rid of him. This is somewhat of an issue, as it means that somehow over time people hated Skien more rather than less which while possible doesn't make much sense. What I mean by this is: imagine your house was just burned down and you family killed by corrupteds because Skien wasn't there to protect you. Would you wait 20+ years to do something to him? No, you'd want him dead right then and there because you'd be most angry at the moment catastrophe struck.

So Skien in the current timeline spends 20 years before people finally punish him by sending him off to a remote island, and that doesn't really make sense. By having Bob save him, and then be trained by the general solves several problems, including the aforementioned time and anger issue. Because Bob has been going around and helping people in Troms, they aren't likely to want to fight him too with Skien, but additionally Bob is an outsider so he would not have the great anger towards Skien that most people would after the general's failure. Because of this Bob saving Skien is a perfect way to explain how Skien was able to not be punished by the people of Troms for so long, as Bob would eventually save them from another corrupted attack, so why would they go kill / exile the person Bob has been working with and being taught by for so long?

Now before I move on to Skien's role after teaching Bob, there are a few more things to bring up. Skien actually fills a unique position in relation to Bob's lore since his associated legendary weapon (helm splitter) shares a level with the three old Bob's master related weapons. For those who don't know, at level 70, there are 3 legendary items which use the name of an associated old teacher of Bob, those being Chakram, Ethereal, and Maelstrom. These weapons fill the roles for the master who taught Bob how to use a dagger, bow, and wand but the normal level 70 spear (Scythe) has no association with Bob's spear master Fier. However in this same level range, Helm Splitter, one of Skien's actual weapons is shown. Now here I should also bring up the lore for Helm Splitter, which states that it is "One of Skien's many deadly weapons." as this implies that Skien uses more types than just a spear. Because of this, it makes perfect sense that Skien could teach Bob how to use all the non-magical weaponry, such as dagger, bows, and spears. Going further, Skien was a brilliant general who was now essentially unemployed after his failure to defend Troms. This means that he would now actually have time to train Bob and more importantly due to his previous status, we know he was a master of combat and would train Bob far better than anyone else in the province. Now that all this is covered I'll move on to the later stuff.

Something you bring up here is that Skien has 'always been paranoid' which actually isn't true. We know from the lore of Locrian the exact moment that Skien's paranoia began, and this is only further backed up by his writing on the island. Before being sent off to his island base, Skien wouldn't have been insane yet, but he would have certainly not been doing well. One could argue that Bob would be able to prevent Skien's insanity because Skien was teaching him for so long but this doesn't quite hold up. Remember that while the people of Troms wouldn't outright kill him because of Bob, that wouldn't stop them from hating him. This would mean that even in his own home he would always be remembered as a failure, and that would last up until the point they just cast him out to be forgotten. In addition to these things, we know that Skien's paranoia is in part related to the spirit of the one who first betrayed him which would continue to follow him even past his death. With Troms hating him, and a spirit intent on torturing him, I see no reason how he wouldn't eventually go insane anyways, regardless of Bob.

The last thing to bring up is his having of one of Bob's pets, which actually is something important. For Bob, who wouldn't have gone to Skien's island himself due to its remote location, he wouldn't have likely realized the mental decline that Skien had had over the years, and so for him (and Martyn by extension), sending the pet to Skien would seem like a logical choice. On Skien's side however, it makes perfect sense why he would lock up the pet, since remember: Skien hates magic. After Bob was taught by Skien he would go off and learn magic, which for Skien, who wouldn't know about Martyn or Bob's relation to the Olm (or actually even that the Olm exist), Bob's magic would appear the same as that of the villagers. Because of this, it makes sense that by this time Skien wouldn't trust Bob anymore, but at the same time, he knew Bob personally, and because of this, he would neither kill nor keep the pet but instead put it in a prison (protecting it and others from it).

There are possibly a few other things I could bring up, but I think this does a good job explaining my reasoning for making Skien Bob's teacher.

 

Sorry, I clicked the wrong one kinda tired.

 

Well, you can change it if you want

 

I don't really see why Mooington and Baab need to be replaced by Ocey and Duke. I feel that having at least Mooington is important because of the role cows play throughout the game.
I also don't like the idea of Bob climbing the mountains to get into the Silent Expanse. The mountains aren't climbable by players, or any other NPC (that I can think of). In addition, the Silent Expanse is supposed to be sealed, if it open to the province like that, then I feel it wouldn't make sense with the first of A Journey Beyond.

 

The role cows play in the game is pretty much just a meme about Salted, I don't think we need to keep it as part of Bob's story. Besides that, Ocey and Duke are more important to his new story especially because they come from the jungle and tundra respectively, two important places to him.

About SE, I'm pretty sure the boss from Prison of Souls (https://wynncraft.gamepedia.com/Prison_of_Souls) came from SE over the mountains (I don't know exactly what proof there is for this, but I've heard it's true), so Bob could just have gone to SE however that thing got to the Twain area, most likely because Mael would have told him about it. Also, SE wasn't properly sealed, it was just blocked off. Even disregarding the Twains thing, there's this line from AJB showing that things can get to and from SE before we open it:

• Elphaba: Lately, creatures of darkness have been seeping through, and we think they are from the expanse.

The darkness itself can't really get out, but smaller creatures (such as Bob) could go in and out if they know the right path. Aledar and Elphaba, however, likely just didn't know about the mountain path because they were relying on the old maps, so we go through the mines instead.

 

You can also see some darkness creeping over at the Twain Graveyard, it's on the top of the mountains, so it could be that the mountains are magical barriers to the lore.

 

Tell me, would you have a pet and companion on adventures a sheep and a cow? I wouldn't want it too. Out of pure practicality if nothing else.

Apart from what Ditsario said we can't climb them out of pure gameplay reasons.

 

Really love this. I never was interested in Bob's lore because it was so confusing. This is wrote really well and should be added