1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
Dismiss Notice
Wynncraft, the Minecraft MMORPG. Play it now on your Minecraft client at (IP): play.wynncraft.com. No mods required! Click here for more info...
Dismiss Notice
Have some great ideas for Wynncraft? Join the official CT (content team) and help us make quests, builds, cinematics and much more!

Game Design Comparing Loot Bonus Builds. Possible Changing?

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by Trickster1399, Feb 1, 2019.

?

Do you like the Suggested Changes? (Please do not answer if you did not fully read!)

  1. Yes! They're great!

  2. They're okay, but I have a better idea!

  3. I don't think it should change at all!

  4. This is too good and should never be accessible in game!

Results are only viewable after voting.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Trickster1399

    Trickster1399 The Giver HERO

    Messages:
    119
    Likes Received:
    246
    Trophy Points:
    59
    Guild:
    Minecraft:
    Introduction!

    Alright, buckle in everyone. As you would probably expect from be by now, this is going to be a lengthy and detailed thread.

    Over the past week or so, I've been doing a lot of theory crafting of loot bonus builds, now that crafted items are in the game. I'm going to be listing four builds here, and talking about each of them and why I think they should or shouldn't be changed, in regards to the stats that they provide, while also listing possible changes that I think would be fair. To make this easier, I will be listing the max identifications possible, but I will list all of the ingredients for the crafted items, that way you can get an idea on the ranges for those.

    So why do I care so much about this, or why would anyone? Who is going to spend so many emeralds for just a little bit extra loot bonus? Probably not many people, except for me because I'm crazy. So why suggest this? Because I think it needs changing in some regards, even if I love it.

    Builds!

    For every build, I will be using Scrooge for 33% Loot Bonus, and Gale's Force for 39% Walk Speed. Worth noting that Scrooge also has -150 Health Regen. I will also set the Base Health of the crafted Boots and Helmets to be 4,000.

    Okay, so here's the standard loot build I use currently.
    Pelier
    Diamond Dust
    Jera
    Almuj Walkers
    Kaze
    Kaze
    Knucklebones
    Emerald Pendant
    Scrooge
    Gale's Force

    Total Health: 4140
    Total Loot Bonus: 235%
    Total Chest Loot Bonus: 81%
    Total Walk Speed: 88%

    This is also a build using only identified items, but uses a Mythic item. This was basically the best before 1.18, loot bonus wise, unless you were to use Old Keeper's Ring.
    Pelier
    Discoverer
    Jera
    Almuj Walkers
    Kaze
    Kaze
    Knucklebones
    Pendant of Prosperity
    Scrooge
    Gale's Force

    Total Health: 1695
    Total Loot Bonus: 392%
    Total Chest Loot Bonus 112%
    Total Walk Speed: 88%

    The biggest downside to this build was Discoverer's 0 Health. This forced you to give up Loot Bonus to keep you alive, by replacing your other items. Some people just used Discoverer and a normal build, but in those situations, it's basically just the same as the previous build above, when it comes to Loot Bonus.

    Here's where things get amazing. With the new update came lots of flexibility. My goal was to create a build that made use of Discoverer, while providing Health without giving up any Walk Speed or Loot Bonus.
    Discoverer
    Jera
    Knucklebones
    Pendant of Prosperity
    Scrooge
    Gale's Force

    Here are the crafted items used for this build, along with the ingredients.

    Helmet: -190 Durability from Total
    1/4 Mana Regen
    22% Loot Bonus
    31% Walk Speed
    84 Agility Req.
    Ingredients: 2x Borange Fluff, 1x Incremental Mapping Module, 3x Gold

    Boots: -195 Durability from Total
    1/4 Mana Regen
    25% Loot Bonus
    31% Walk Speed
    84 Agility Req.
    Ingredients: 2x Borange Fluff, 1x Incremental Mapping Module, 3x Poorly Made Pouch

    Ring 1: -135 Durability from Total
    12% Loot Bonus
    12% Walk Speed
    Ingredients: 3x Feather of Grace, 3x Gold Bar

    Ring 2: -189 Durability from Total
    12% Walk Speed
    12% Health Regen
    150 Health Regen
    Ingredients: 3x Feather of Grace, 3x Ivory Tusk

    Total Health: 8935
    Total Loot Bonus: 398%
    Total Chest Loot Bonus 114%
    Total Walk Speed: 105%
    Total Mana Regen 2/4
    Total Health Regen 12% + 150 Raw

    This build counters the negative Health Regen from Scrooge, while providing about 8,000 total life with the new level 90 Boots and Helmet, countering the Discoverer's 0 life. It does this efficiently without any loss of Loot Bonus from the previous build. I think it's honestly quite fair.

    Okay, here's my favorite thing ever, but I do think something needs to change a bit. I'll give a run down of the build first, though.
    Discoverer
    Jera
    Knucklebones
    Pendant of Prosperity

    Now for the crafted items

    Helmet: -165 Durability from Total
    42% Loot Bonus
    36% Walk Speed
    Ingredients: 2x Borange Fluff, 4x Glimmering Coin

    Boots: -165 Durability from Total
    42% Loot Bonus
    36% Walk Speed
    Ingredients 2x Borange Fluff, 4x Glimmering Coin

    I use the same two rings for this build as I do above in the previous build.

    Total Health: 8935
    Total Loot Bonus: 435%
    Total Chest Loot Bonus: 121%
    Total Walk Speed: 115%
    Total Health Regen: 12% +150 Raw

    Ingredient Listings

    Borange Fluff:Tier 3
    +30 Durability
    +15% Effectiveness to all other items

    Incremental Mapping Module: Tier 3
    -125 Durability
    +1/4 Mana Regen
    +20-24% Walk Speed
    +60 Agility Req.

    Gold: Tier 0
    -26 Durability
    +4-5% Loot Bonus

    Poorly Made Pouch: Tier 0
    -25 Durability
    +4-6% Loot Bonus

    Gold Bar: Tier 1
    -22 Durability
    +3-4% Loot Bonus

    Ivory Tusk: Tier 1
    -40 Durability
    +3-4% Health Regen
    +40-50 Health Regen

    Glimmering Coin: Tier 3
    -45 Durability
    +4-5% Walk Speed
    +4-7% Loot Bonus

    Getting Into Things!

    Most of the information is shown already just in these builds. You're probably thinking "Now, build 4 is so insane compared to build 3!" and you're correct, but I do want to remind you that Glimmering Coins are a Tier 3 ingredient, while Gold and Poorly Made Pouches are both Tier 0. Please keep that in mind.

    Why Do I Believe Build 4 to be Good Design?

    Let's start off comparing Build 2 and 3. In Build 3, I replace a level 40 item and a level 30 two level 90 items, that are also crafted with expensive and difficult to get materials. What do I net in return? A very very small boost to my stats, and 8000 Health. I think this is terrible design. As nice as it is, having the ability to use Discoverer, I do not think that the only difference between a level 30-40 item and a Level 90 crafted item should be the Health bonus. That is outright absurd. There needs to be some other direct benefit within the item itself for this to be worth it. The only reason I believe this to be okay is because of it's synergies with Discoverer. The extra 1/4 Mana Regen just does not cut it. Crafted items are things you go above and beyond to get, whether you spend crazy amounts of money to buy the resources, or spend hours and hours getting them, along with days to get to the level needed to craft the items.

    So why do I like Build 4 better from a design perspective? Firstly, comparing Build 3 and Build 4, one is clearly superior. I like this a lot. The main reason being, Every item used for the Boots and the Helmet in Build 4 is Tier 3. Comparing that to Build 3, where half of the ingredients used are Tier 0, I 100% believe that Build 4 deserves to stand out significantly. I love the fact that a trade from Build 2's level 30-40 armor yields more than just a Health bonus. This is good design, and I believe that these ingredients should stay superior.

    So Why Do I Think Build 4 is Poor Design?

    Well, look at it for a second. Maybe just a little closer.... Alright, perfect! Can see it clearly now. The durability is a huge culprit in Build 4, but what causes this? Borange Fluff causes this. A lot of people believe that Borange Fluff is a joke, and not powerful at all. Even one of the mods claimed it to be a joke-type ingredient. This IS the case, when paired with a lot of late game ingredients that eat up a lot of durability. When paired with early-mid game ingredients that don't spend too much durability, it's reward is unbelievable.

    Each Borange Fluff nets about 34.5 Durability, 3% Walk Speed, and 4.2% Loot Bonus. This is just a little less than what Glimmering Coin has to offer, but with only -6 Durability, as oppose to -45. In this case, I could probably get away just fine with One Borange Fluff, although it wouldn't net any more than 30 Durability, that's perfectly fine, since the overall durability deduction is great already.

    What to Change?

    With durability being the largest problem, regarding the balance of this build, I have a couple ideas on how to change that in mind.

    Idea 1: Change Borange Fluff so that it's maybe 10-15 Durability. The item is already very bad in combination with items that deduct a large amount of durability. It's insane with Items that don't deduct too much. Why not balance it so it's just good with those items, since it will never have major implications with heavier items?

    Idea 2: Raise Glimmering Coin's durability to -50. You may think "ooh, a whole 5 durability" but this adds up. There's already -20 durability from four coins, and to top it off, another -15 from the two fluffs. You may even be able to go to -55, but it is an early game item, and you're unable to get amazing durability that early on, so completely demolishing it, isn't good for the design either.

    Now those are the two biggest complaints I have with this build. I believe it to be fair for the items to remain around 200 durability, as they're not completely busted in comparison to Build 3, just about 7% Chest Bonus and... The Walk Speed.

    Idea 3: Lower the Walk Speed of Glimmering Coin, holy cow. That adds up like crazy. It is nice to have these ingredients aimed towards loot runners, like myself, but we already have those tools in the game. I believe the CT hit it perfectly when choosing not to include really good Walk Speed Woodworking ingredients, as items for these play styles exist already in Mythic form. While there is no Mythic Helmet or Boots that provide good Loot Bonus and Walk Speed, there is Mythic Boots that provide good Loot Bonus, and this sort of overshadows that item. I believe that Crafted Items should certainly be better than Legendary Items, but not overshadow Mythic Items. I'm assuming this was the goal when coming up with new Ingredients.

    Idea 4: Give Glimmering Coin -Health or something so these items aren't too beefy, really. This is an edit and wasn't in the original thread, but I'm sitting here thinking about it, and this could also be helpful. My brain is too tired to write more, sadly, but you get the idea, I hope.

    I'm unsure of the implications of just a little bit extra Loot Bonus, regarding Loot Chests. I have yet to obtain a Discoverer, so I'm unable to have perfect results. 5% Loot Bonus goes a long way over time, but in short, it's not too effective. I hope I'm able to provide solid data, or someone else is able to, before any changes happen to the stats of these ingredients. It would be a shame if things were to change for no other reason than "they look good" as that would defeat the purpose of even crafting items in the first place.

    [Edit: Threw this in here, because I forgot to mention it, but thought it was pretty clear]
    I want to note that the only reason you would ever craft the items for Build 3 is if you own a Discoverer. The only thing it provides is Health, so it's not ever worth using the money and materials, as well as time, to craft these items without having a very specific item already. This is why I disagree with bringing down the power level of Build 4 to match Build 3. Build 4 is great because you have a reason to craft these items, even without owning a Discoverer, which is good design!

    Wrapping Things Up!

    I want to wrap this up in saying once again, I do believe that the stats of Build 4 are okay for the most part, despite the Walk speed being a little good. I personally feel as if Build 3 should've been able to provide more than just Health, when compared to Build 2. I do feel that Build 3 and Build 4 should have been similar in durability, however, even if Build 4 has a little better stats, which is why Build 4 should be checked out in that sense.

    One final word, it is VERY important to note that in order to have a good amount of Health and Durability, Tier 3 Materials are most effective, which are also expensive. It is also important to note that these ingredients are very hard to get, and very expensive to buy. This isn't your casual Loot Run build, which is why I believe it's okay to be a bit stronger than slapping on a couple Legendaries that are all over the Marketplace and some Rares, too. The materials I've gathered for the crafted items alone of Build 4 have costed over 5 Stacks of Liquid Emeralds, which is not cheap. I'm not saying that it doesn't deserve to be changed just because I spent the money, but what I am saying is to keep that in mind when thinking about the power level. Compare something like Spring and Torrential Tide. Spring is far superior, but costs stacks and stacks of Liquid Emeralds to purchase, or getting very lucky. Same thing applies to Build 4, as well as Build 3 even. Not to mention that a Discoverer also is very costly, and much harder to obtain in 1.18 with the removal of a lot of Tier 3 and Tier 4 Loot Chests.

    I want to thank everyone involved in the making of 1.18 again. Theory crafting and coming up with epic ways to maximize efficiency in any builds, or most things in general, is something I absolutely love to death! This is why it's hard for me to put on the same set of equipment that I've been using for years. These builds and the majority of the picky things I talk about in this thread aren't for everyone, and that's okay!

    Thank You for Reading! Feel Free to Give Feedback!
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2019
  2. arex

    arex I like peanut butter HERO

    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    88
    Trophy Points:
    49
    Minecraft:
    Now that's a lot of lb
     
    Trickster1399 likes this.
  3. Trickster1399

    Trickster1399 The Giver HERO

    Messages:
    119
    Likes Received:
    246
    Trophy Points:
    59
    Guild:
    Minecraft:
    Tiny addition at the bottom of "What to Change" that I forgot to mention while making the thread! Also an addition of a fourth idea! Brain is tired, not much explanation was given, but it's pretty straight forward
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2019
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.