Assassin Tweaks (thought About And Redone)

Okay two things I just wanna quickly mention

I feel like there aren't really many weapon options for assassin, who gets Inferno, Weathered, Grimtrap, Black, Alazarin (weak due to lack of powders), and I guess some rates. But then archer here has 6 good mythics, as well as Petrified Horrors (although no one really uses this) and Gales Forces. So naturally assassin would seem weak, there aren't really many options I feel.

Also 80% of all builds utilize +Tier IDs, but Assassins can't use this as well because most of their weapons are decently fast. Hopefully if these two things are fixed (heard +tier is bugged or something? even if it isn't it's kinda OP) Assassin might seem a bit better.

But I agree Assassin is the weakest of the four, there's just too much mana consumption for a class that last I checked isn't even supposed to be the worst in terms of spells.

A lot of the in game community seems to be caring about PVP from personal experience, I mean there are barely any PVE builds out there and the Hive/ToA are the only real things you would need one for, so some high-levels seem to focus on fighting other people.

 

That doesn't happen in my experience, and I have ~11/4 from my armor..

7x7 area on bomb arrow, massive arrow rain on arrow shield - those are among the largest AoE in the game
And personally I feel assassin should be more focused on single target damage, an assassin's job is normally to strike from the shadows and obliterate 1-2 targets before disappearing again, not DpS down large groups

 

I'm talking normal attacks, like, for archer, it's shooting arrows, for the others, it's either using magic, or hitting with something.

 

If I may comment...

As far as strategies go, I personally use spin attack to set up for a smoke bomb, multihit, then smoke bomb again. But then, I don't play in the nether.
Obviously you know how the combo works, but I'll explain it anyways:
Spin attack slows and blinds the enemy - setting them up for a smoke bomb (because smoke bomb is no use if the enemy just moves out of the way). After that I'll use multihit and move the enemy to a safe distance - right after that I cast smoke bomb and thow it in their general direction. Then repeat. Kinda noobish, yet simple and effective.

I understand why a ton of people make Buff Assassin threads, yet so few of them have nerfs included (or some of the nerfs make no sense, such as buffing vanish and nerfing smoke bomb - tbh rn smoke bomb is one of our most effective weapons). Yet as you said, "I do not want the old assassin in any shape or form" because it was op af. Yet it seems like many people long for that old assassin. This is not simply a buff & nerf thread but a Tweak thread - and while a lot of people may not agree with your standpoint, I do, to a degree.

However, CuddleDragonHoke I see your point. We get too many buff assassin threads, right?
"Multihit is what makes the Assassin able to actually assassinate."
That's why it's a combo attack - meant to be used in conjunction with other spells. But I don't understand why you said:

But maybe it's just me that doesn't understand.
Also, with the strength that you get while vanished, that disappears as soon as you start attacking (melee) or even do a right-click. What's the use of strength if you can't use it on spells? While you could just go all in and melee, you only get 1 hit in - dealing that weapon's neutral/elemental damage (But tbh I don't see why you would use melee unless to get enough mana so you can execute a combo or maybe a little lifesteal [but lifesteal was nerfed so much]).

Also, sorry if I come off as salty. Or maybe you think that this post isn't important. I'm just trying to express my opinion here pls no hate ;-;

 

The Strength affects one hit, as in, if you punch while vanished, it will do the damage of a normal hit, plus the strength boost, the attack lands before the vanish spell goes away.

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I had never accused you of wanting the old Assassin, I was saying that there are too many threads that ask for assassin to be tweaked, where spells that used to be the most powerful, are buffed again, even after the nerf they received was clearly a viable nerf, Assassin never really changed much.

Also, if a mob is far away, then really, why worry about it? Especially if, like you said in the original post, Assassin is a "Melee class" Not only that, but Vanish is just fine. You get enough speed to go a little bit of distance, and that's really all you need when it comes to using assassin effectively, you need to be HEAVILY active, micromanage your mana, and you gotta be on your toes constantly. I am not calling you out on being bad, and I'm certainly not calling you bad in anyway, I only said "Lets base this on the perspective, that I am a pro at assassin" Which, I am, I may not do a lot of Nether stuff, but I do know how assassin works to a T, and I understand every single class design choice. Assassin was made the right way in this update, and really, just try to use the things that I mentioned, I can even show you a video, where you can watch my mana, as I do these things that I am preaching about, I have proof that what I do does work, and whether you believe it or not, it's all up to you.

And, really, I barely even try to be good at assassin, hell, I really don't even care that I am good at assassin, because it just feels like second nature to me, the class works 100% fine, with no issues with me, and it just might be the case that you might have to move on to another class.

But, hey, that's just my opinion, and you don't really have to agree with my opinion, but I do know that what I say works, and whether you chose to take my advice on it, or not, that's up to you.

~Hoke

 

It is bugged, it does the exact opposite of what it's supposed to do: Increase the DPS of melee weapons to compete with spell damage builds, it's not supposed to change the attack speed spell multiplier of a weapon, only the DPS, which is why most items with +tier attack speed are Air/Thunder, they make DPS faster for people who use Air/Thunder melee builds, but those builds are rarely used due to the current state of +tier attack speed.

I feel that the fixing of +tier attack speed will be a "buff" of sorts to Assassin, with the other classes no longer being able to do 20,000+ damage with super slow weapons + bugged tier attack speed.
And, honestly, is it just me, or does Assassin have the potential to have REALLY good melee-only builds, it may even be better at Warrior at melee despite the low defense, seriously, I find rounding up mobs and just hit them the best method of grinding for my level 23 Ninja.

.....
Hmm, as of typing this post, I've developed a theory on why so many people find Assassin to be lacking in power:
A good chunk of Assassin's power is not it's spells, but rather, being able to deal high amounts of damage at a fast pace with melee, this makes sense because Assassin is all about is getting close in your enemy's face, and that's what melee damage is all about, the lifesteal and mana steal ID also helps this theory, since one could start stealing HP/Mana from an enemy, vanish, leaving the enemy confused, then go in for more lifesteal/mana steal once the vanish is gone ,the spells mainly serve as a distraction to confuse the enemy more, of course, like Warrior, Assassin with spell damage is still pretty good, but as far as I know, people say the spells are lacking, why? Maybe because Assassin doesn't get as much benefit from a certain bugged ID as much as the other classes..... Hmm....
With melee-only Assassin having a lot of potential to be very good, you could add +tier attack speed to that potential, and possibly make something that does 600+ damage at a super-fast DPS with lots of lifesteal/mana steal along with high walkspeed to keep rotating around your enemy so they can't hit you, along with using spells like Spin-attack/multihit/smoke bomb to do further damage and confuse the enemy even more, and using vanish to add to your walk speed to run away from your enemy if your in danger because of your low defense, oh, that same build could also have poison as an ID to make your enemy's day even worse...... This is what an Assassin truly is.....

Now, this would be possible.... if only +tier attack speed wasn't bugged, only affecting spell damage multipliers, making the other 3 classes killing machines, while leaving Assassin in the dust, with it's spells not being the main power of Assassin, it can't even boosts it's powerful melee DPS because +tier attack speed is bugged!

 

Assassins multi hit was already buffed from 250% to 350% in a recent patch. Also there is no reason that assassin should have mana drain. Why not just give 10 seconds invis and then to balance it out a bit give it speed 3 and jump 3 for a minute each. I think that would give assassin a bit more of an edge in fights as the mana isn't drained and you have decent mobility as well maybe even speed 4 because of the reduced time from archer.

 

Nice suggestion!

 

holy shit these text walls

 

That's what I said... or at least what I thought I said... xD

YESS THE TEXT WALLS ARE GOD

Edit: This is one of the more thought out buff assassin threads (srry OhHerro it still belongs in that category, now pls don't get salty :P). Which is good... I guess (there are still too many buff assassin threads!).

 

Oh god. This again.

Smoke Bomb is a damage-over-time spell. Yes, it deals more damage than Multihits; 450% over Multihits' 350%. However, that damage is spread over approximately 5 seconds, and the amount of time that Smoke Bomb lasts for is directly proportional to how long the bomb itself exists. If you send it through the air at a distant foe, it is -supposed to- last for only a small number of hits. While it costs less mana than Multihits, it is still ultimately more efficient to use Multihits as it deals its 350% damage in a much shorter timespan than Smoke Bomb does its 450%.

I have seen the mana drain during Vanish, and I can say this with 100% honesty:



You are overreacting to the extreme. The speed from Vanish means you do not need to sprint, which means those complaining of having no mana after sprinting to an opponent during Vanish are simply not using it right. This does not mean the spell is flawed. In addition, in PVP terms, players will see your sprinting particles along with the smoke, making you easy to track. I can assure you that you simply need to learn to use it more effectively. The buffs are also extremely conducive to escape. The jump boost alone can actually get you out of the range of certain spells, and allows you to completely throw off your opponent, while also allowing you access to hiding spots to recuperate, making it honestly the best mobility spell in my opinion. It has enough perks to not need to inflict damage, and gives you honestly too much leeway.



If you are in a crowd of mobs with low mana, you should either have finished an attack and thusly been given enough breathing room for your low mana to not matter, or you have just finished rounding them up for a flurry of basic attacks. Which brings me to the underrated basic attack. Has everyone simply forgotten it existed? Versus the Archer, Assassin may have less base damage, but it also has the ability to hit multiple mobs with its basic attack, meaning it deals more damage overall to groups of mobs. Your comment about it dealing mediocre damage is simply a lie.

Much of this has a number of factual inaccuracies used to make your argument seem more compelling. The Assassin certainly does have effective methods of getting close and dealing damage easily. In PVP, even -walking- towards an opponent is intimidating.

Smoke Bomb's current damage is 50% per hit, for up to 9 hits. It already has the Choke effect, which gives enemies a rather severe Slowness effect while within the smoke. This slowing radius is slightly larger than its damage radius, meaning it is difficult to escape and easy to direct mobs around. Giving the effects you list would make it a strict upgrade over Spin Attack, which gives short lasting effects of jump prevention, blindness and nausea. Especially having it carry over after the Smoke Bomb ends is far too powerful. Literally all that needs to change about Smoke Bomb is that the bug affecting it needs to be fixed, with that bug being that its duration is not reduced depending on how far the Smoke Bomb flies.

Excuse me, but my dear friend Broettinger with his all-damage Freedom build is dealing 15000 damage Bomb Arrows. If you are keeping up with that with a weapon not based around damage, I would certainly say it is dealing enough damage. You also got its damage wrong. It was buffed back up to 25% damage very early on in the patches. Blindness causes mobs to wander aimlessly, which can cause issues with comboing into other attacks if you do not actively pursue them, which means both Spin Attack and Multihits have separate defensive usages, and Multihits is much more conducive to comboing due to Force. An effective Assassin can juggle enemies using Multihits.

I reiterate my previous statements about Vanish. Speed IV for 16 seconds is much more powerful than you may think. III is really the highest the speed effect should ever go. You have seen walk speed builds, yes? Extremely effective for dodging, and it makes pursuing opponents very easy. Learn to use it better. And, in response to your free spell idea...



Yes, let me just quick-cast these 6, 8, 10 mana spells for free for 2 mana each over and over again(or less if I use Intelligence)! There is simply no way this could possibly be unbalanced, especially with the 20% strength boost they all get to them and the complete invincibility I get against mobs while using it because they aren't aggroed to me while I'm using it! No way this is overpowered or anything, no-siree-bob!



Do you see why I get so fed up with these threads? There is nothing wrong with the Assassin class, barring a minor bug making one spell slightly more effective than it should be.

Let me be absolutely clear. The Assassin is balanced. End of story.

 

Roasting people now comes included with free nightmares!

I can say that at least 50% of the time I use spin attack, the mobs just stop moving completely, and the other 50% of the time I'm close enough to the enemy to cast smoke bomb right after spin attack before they walk far enough to not get slowed by it, so this strategy still works either way, doing more damage for less mana than multihit. I honestly never use multihit, half the time the first hit of the spell knocks the enemy into me and I get hurt even though force is supposed to prevent that.

 

You have noted that the mobs tend to stand still for most of the time they are blinded. While this is somewhat true, as most mobs when they lose aggro tend to stop rather than move constantly about, it is highly unlikely that the mobs stop moving completely as you say they do. I certainly find Multihits to be much more effective.



And unless you are trying to knock enemies into you, that last statement is a lie. Force knocks enemies towards the direction you are looking, so unless you've some impressive feats of dexterity with your mouse that you're using to hinder yourself, this simply does not happen.

 

while I wouldn't put my stupidity past me, there have been a few times where Force just doesn't seem to affect the first hit of the spell.

 

What is happening as you describe it is mechanically impossible unless forced via attempt.





...no pun intended. I noticed that just as I was about to hit the Post button...

 

Poor selvut. All these buff/nerf threads must be hurting him so badly.

 

THIS
In my opinion, Assassin has the best basic attack out of all the classes, it's able hit as many enemies as Warrior, but do more efficient damage under certain circumstances, of course, an Assassin must be careful of their defense, and use vanish when they are in Danger.

See, I think the problem is not that Assassin is UP, it's perfect as it is, but it's that the other 3 classes benefit way more from the bugged +tier attack speed than it does currently, a good chunk of Assassin's power comes from it's melee damage, Assassin's offensive spells are there as an alternate way of damage, a way to confuse your enemy with the blinding effects of Spin attack and knockback of multihit, one could say the same argument for Warrior and how it benefits from the bugged +tier attack speed even though it's basic attack is also melee, but Warrior, for the most part, is all about hitting hard and having low DPS in general in both melee and spells, Assassin is about getting up close to an enemy, melee is about getting close to an enemy, it all connects.

Melee Assassin has the potential to be even stronger with +tier attack speed..... If only it wasn't bugged only affecting the spell multiplier, as I mentioned, in my opinion, a good chunk of Assassin's power comes from it's basic attacks, and +tier attack speed is supposed to boost this basic attack, but at it's current state, it doesn't.
Once +tier attack speed is fixed I feel Assassin will get a pseudo-"buff" without even changing any of it's stats, with the other classes no longer being able to become OP killing machines with a bugged +tier attack speed, and melee builds in general, becoming more viable and since I've mentioned that I think a good chunk of Assassin's power comes from melee attacks..... I think you get what I mean......

 

I was not even thinking of identifications and such. I was simply citing the literal stats.



According to the damage curve, and you can see Salted's "The Making Of The Item System" thread for citation, Assassin's base damage is 100%, whereas Mage's is 60%, Warrior's is 80%, and Archer's is 120%. It is simply statistically the most powerful given the circumstances of both its damage and how many enemies it can hit.

 

Ah, pardon me, I was simply stating my little theory on why so many people think Assassin is lacking in power, even though it's not.

 

Yes, I do imagine that once the Attack Speed Tier ID is fixed, a lot of issues will become non-existent. For instance, that 100000 damage Alkatraz, I believe it was?