SPOILER Was Urelix Right?

Uhh... So I'm noticing a large hole noone's put their hand in yet... WHAT ABOUT QUARTRONS!? Those things seem much more capable than a golem and the one we fought was only a prototype! And it seems more simple-minded compared to Corkian androids as to not rebel against its creators, I mean, they *might* be expensive but the Karoc Quarry doesn't look like it's quartz is gonna disappear anytime soon. If a quartron was fully-fledged out, it could potentially move. Is it a massive weapon of mass destruction? Yeah I guess, but it *might* be possible to simplify their design into more golem-sized creatures, and iirc magically-charged quartz is probably stronger than boring old iron plates.

 

So I was doing the Death Whistle quest, and something came to me. In the quest, Voer tells us to get more Black Whistle for him, a plant that he says "has all sorts of mystical properties, so much so that it brings inanimate objects to life." He also says that the demand for more Black Whistle has grown high, so we can assume that many people know about it. So why doesn't Urelix use the plant on the golems and bring the golems to life and tell them to defend the cities? If demand is a problem, he is probably able to grow some. I mean, he has the resources to build expensive machines in a massive factory. Why can't he create a greenhouse, farm Black Whistle, and use that to create the golems?

 

This is why there needs to be limits on how magic works in a story. Like how in Avatar each bender can only bend their respective element. Otherwise it just pokes hole in the story.

 

Wynncraft's society doesn't really have too much of an idea of cruel and unusual punishment: Ragni used to throw its worst criminals into sewers as a prison and Gavel tortures it's prisoners to death in a terrible prison and then revives them to do it again (heh heh, gavel of the law coming down). Fruma is Fruma. I guess this would work in Wynn, although to us it would still be wrong. However, it is worth noting that not everyone in Wynn or Gavel supports these practices, many Gavellians have referred to the Forbidden Prison as "horrible", for example. Ultimately this comes down to Wynncraft's code of ethics.

They don't feel much except cold, as Urelix says, but only if they're working properly. The defective golem we have to kill, for example, does feel cold, but also has emotions like sadness. Iron Golems are intelligent (using the intelligence of the thing they're based off, presumably), but are emotionless sentinels.

 

If they only feel cold, maybe people on their deathbeds or people in a lot of pain can sign a contract or something that allows them to become a golem. IMO a lot of people would accept that considering humans fear death. They'd continue to live on, without experiencing pain.

 

Well how Urelix said it, feeling only coldness didn’t sound pleasant either. You can’t feel happiness or other positive emotions either; put in the fact that they don’t have free will and can’t say anything, and I’d say it’s more of a living hell.

 

I mean that’s what I was talking about how Gavel’s government is also corrupt too. Though I do see your point; so maybe from a medieval viewpoint it would be ethical, but from a modern one it would be.

Keep in mind though that being a golem is in some ways worse than death because it’s a state of constant cold and emptiness and the victim has no free will. Their suffering will be prolonged for who knows how long until they’re scrapped or torn apart from a monster; even warriors who risk their life to society are reassured with a quick death.

 

In some ways, it would be, but perhaps the contracts could have a specific timeframe. Or, if the people of Gavel get drafted, perhaps they could temporarily be turned to golems instead for however many years of military service required. In some ways, that would be better, as they wouldn't feel pain and because they are unable to control themselves, they wouldn't need training.

 

Well coldness is uncomfortable and at times painful if it is prolonged or intense, which falls under the former. So that’s all you would feel; just imagine your life without ever feeling satisfaction or some sort of happiness.

Idk if there is actually a draft though. We don’t know much about the Villager’s government besides that they’re decentralized, contain cosmic objects, fight the Greenskins, and ban humans from living in Gavel. I doubt most people would be willing though, especially now if they learned how it was done under their noses.

 

Why does Urelix even make the golems have almost no free will? If they're made of volunteers who want to protect their city, it doesn't really matter if they have free will or not so why not just give the golems emotions and free will? Instead of inserting a soul into a lump of iron, why not magically bind the entire body to a large iron suit? So think of golems less like metal cages and more like iron man suits. This would probably be more expensive cause the golem would retain all human needs but it's a hell of a lot more morally correct. If this is a possibility, then Urelix is evil

 

The cities are fine without the iron golems, just look at Troms. If you removed their golems, they would still hold the enemies off fine.

if we do get that i want more lore for Ohms the Golemancer (a substoryline from like 2016 that was never finished, about Gale (from the hive) and Ohms, who was a golem creator) I was researching this lately and there was a thread from 2016 by Selvut where people actually hunted for Ohms and Gale lore. Too bad the thread god necroed otherwise we would have had one hell of a mini story. I think 1.20 may be the perfect time to finish it though...

 

That's a good point. There are those soldier NPCs with spears; those could replace golems, though since they need to eat and be trained--unlike golems--it'd be more expensive and time-consuming.

It depends on how cold it is tbh. At a certain point, they'd just get numb and feel nothing, not even coldness. If, when someone is drafted, their options are: a) undergo a lot of training and quite possibly die a painful death if you don't fight well, or b) be able to fight well on autopilot, very unlikely to be ripped apart by monsters, and even if you are killed, you feel no pain, feeling nothing except coldness, I think a lot of people would choose the latter especially if it's only for a set amount of time. Golems aren't just saving the lives of citizens in cities, they're saving the lives of ordinary soldiers by taking up posts that would go to other soldiers if they had not.

A lot of this really depends on if you think the end justifies the means or if you think people should avoid unethical deeds regardless of the benefits it will have in the end.

 

Remember when iron golems were made from 4 iron blocks and a pumpkin?

 

Something worth noting here is if they feel suffering without any emotion. Sure, there's no happiness or joy, but also no sadness either, as well as no physical pain. So no emotional or physical pain is present, they might think themselves into sadness by remembering their old life, but again, they can't because no emotions. Is there suffering? Imagine only being able to think and kill, no emotions, no physical pain. Would you suffer? How would you suffer, if so? In a human sense, or a more philosophical one?

 

you just answered your own question.

 

Wait a minute; how would Urelix or anyone know what an iron golem feels if they can’t communicate and don’t have free will? Sure, the defective golem from part one says he’s cold, but it’s also possible that he feels pain from the player attacking him. So iron golems might feel pain after all...

 

IF the procedure would be changed so that it isn't painful and the subject keeps their consciousness, then MAYBE I would say it MIGHT pay off.
Of course there would have to be volunteered, trusted and trained subjects, but this would only help. Imagine a golem that actually thinks, can communicate, plan etc.

No, I don't think Urelix was right. I propably wouldn't agree even if the procedure gets changed.

 

If that's true then Urelix is evil and not a bitter realist like some people would suggest

 

I think the problem I have with this whole situation is that I'm not sure why Corkus doesn't begin making their own clockwork golems. I mean sure their original mechs defected and turned against their masters, but that was only due to the Antikythera Super computer making them do it as the corkians mistreated the avos. So why not make a new factory where the replica golems are made of pure machine and have the humans control them instead of an AI ? This would allow Corkus to become more internationally recognised as they wished whilst in Gavel the people of Olux are safe from Urelix and his golems and whilst in Wynn, well they get more protectors.

It could also allow for more specially adapted golems too as well as being stronger and faster than the regular ones, althought that's only becuase I'd argue the Corkians could build a more powerful Golem than Urelix ever could.

Oh and just thinking, aren't the Corkus City Guards Mechs too, although I'm unsure as I know you can talk to some as those white-named NPCs yet in AHC you make them attack the Avos by signalling something to them, so couldn't you just build them for the cities ?