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War pity

Discussion in 'Wynncraft' started by Bananazein, Dec 27, 2021.

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  1. Bananazein

    Bananazein nako HERO

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    Can we talk about pity in war. Why is this a thing?
    [​IMG]
     
    Enderclaw and ExtraLemonZest like this.
  2. Ava Cart

    Ava Cart If you don't like Ava you die VIP+

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    Yesterday about 1h 40min into the season Desolate Valley attack would cost us 35600 emeralds, what a bs
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    As we continued to defend our terrs, pity was activating on more and more guilds to eventually make it impossible to defend
     
    Bananazein likes this.
  3. Bananazein

    Bananazein nako HERO

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    So did Wynn just decide to add this "feature" to just avoid draining terra and essentially go for hq snipes??? I don't really understand why this was added.
     
  4. Ava Cart

    Ava Cart If you don't like Ava you die VIP+

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    I don't understand either
     
  5. Salted

    Salted Game Design & Wynncraft Founder Staff Member Admin GM CHAMPION

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    pity was done for a few reasons:
    - to make it more costly to bully small-ish guilds (pity goes up faster if the guild has few territories), especially when using sub-guilds
    - to slow down a potential endless tug-of-war between 2 guilds and to instead try to get them to expand elsewhere (or just stop, nobody wants to war 24/7)
    - to encourage people to attack big guilds (guilds with a lot of territories don't get pity, or they get it very slowly)

    now because all guilds somehow agreed to let the top guilds control 99% of all territories without ever meaningfully challenging them, this system can become annoying because a lot of y'all are fighting over scraps in the FFA regions and can't grow big enough so that pity doesn't trigger constantly. i think the idea itself is sensible and would work better if the meta switched away from this anti-confrontation mindset, but that ain't the case yet. we may need to re-adjust things once we look more deeply into guilds again

    EDIT: oh also it's possible there's a bug with pity right now. we haven't touched it recently yet I've heard a lot about it, so that may be one of the reasons it's overly annoying too
     
  6. chryssie

    chryssie ultimate cur hater CHAMPION

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    depends on the guild attacking tbh, if the guild is really strong and completely steamrolls the defending guild, the defender cant really retaliate back since their attacks cost 32k which drains their ems quickly

    not directly related to the topic but there was a 15 day war between 2 alliances last season check it out tho

    i think the general consensus is that pity completely stomps an attackers/defenders chances of winning (depending on who it procs on) and its not really fun when your guild auto-losses because you ran out of emeralds and cant continue warring. the massive fight the last 3 weeks did not involve pity yet it still went very well, although it was due to the megaalliance splitting and thats just the guild climate changing, which takes a while and cant really be forced

    im curious as to what was changed since pity had been gone since 1.20.3 first dropped and it came back really hard this season without a mention in patch notes
     
    Bananazein and WithTheFish like this.
  7. Salted

    Salted Game Design & Wynncraft Founder Staff Member Admin GM CHAMPION

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    yo I love that video thanks for that! it's exactly the type of stuff I was hoping when designing this (tho not with only 2 alliances but that's better than nothing). and yea if a guild is strong they will still beat small guilds for the most part, that's one of the rewards they get for reaching that size. but if they were to be attacked by multiple small-ish guilds at once for example, they would have to use significantly more emeralds than those combined smaller guilds would.

    designing this type of long-term strategic large-scale system is quite tricky because a big portion of it is dependant on multiple humans which is very hard to predict. we can only create systems to try to nudge them towards a certain playstyle but if they refuse or prefer to play a different way it may not work. not to mention that mindset and meta changes can take months (or years) to form or change even with a perfectly designed system.
     
  8. ron111701

    ron111701 proffa CHAMPION

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    i think one of the main issues right now is that there's no real reward for being off-map, and there's not a real reason to engage in a large-scale conflict like the one that just happened/is still ongoing besides boredom or for the possibility of getting a claim (which doesn't help the overall climate). i'd also argue it's way too easy for allies to prop each other up, mostly via the sending/tributing of resources.

    tl;dr - there's very little reason to be off-map, especially if you want to actually benefit from territory benefits. it's also really difficult to uproot an alliance that's holding, even if you wipe 1-2 guilds on the map, it doesn't take much for other allied guilds to prop them back up. these imbalances contribute to the dead attacker scene, which only snowballs the defender/map holding issue.

    basically its easier and profitable to perpetuate the status quo which only snowballs the issues above which makes it even harder to go against the status quo until some sorta shake up happens in those who hold the map.

    also if you're trying to encourage multiple smaller guilds to attack at once, that's just gonna lead to sub spam. (like what happened with that big conflict except with stalling)
     
    SirCmt and Salted like this.
  9. Salted

    Salted Game Design & Wynncraft Founder Staff Member Admin GM CHAMPION

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    alright y'all, we've decided to disable the pity system for the time being. we'll re-adjust it or rework it at a later date once we have more time to look at guilds in-depth.
     
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