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Uhh Salted(a Discussion On Guild Slots)

Discussion in 'Guild Discussions' started by XeraAndromeda, Dec 8, 2020.

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  1. IceResistance

    IceResistance Titans Valor [ANO] Founder CHAMPION

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    You guys have to realize that level requirements are nerfed, so since we are all going to jump levels, to balance it out they probably made it less slots. It should balance.
     
  2. Asthae

    Asthae ... HERO

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    we are going to jump lvls? i didn't know that

    i thought they balanced it out by removing xp from territories
     
  3. XeraAndromeda

    XeraAndromeda Empress of Nemract, Queen of Aphelion CHAMPION

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    well if they aren't.... TIME TO GET THE PITCHFORKS OUT
     
  4. urbymine

    urbymine Former Chief of Avicia

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    I won't be able to rest on this issue until we get an unambiguous explanation by one of the admins about what exactly is going to happen to member capacity, i have heard rumors it's not supposed to be this low, i have heard rumors that the beta member slots are here to stay, which is it?
     
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  5. XeraAndromeda

    XeraAndromeda Empress of Nemract, Queen of Aphelion CHAMPION

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    ^^^ yea until the admins explain themselves I'll continue to complain
     
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  6. quick007

    quick007 Master Adventurer

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    salteedddddddd
     
  7. XeraAndromeda

    XeraAndromeda Empress of Nemract, Queen of Aphelion CHAMPION

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    yes please salted reply to us
     
  8. Salted

    Salted Game Design & Wynncraft Founder Staff Member Admin GM CHAMPION

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    yo! they're low because most of the lategame leveling perks are members slots, and with the decreased XP req for guilds we expected big guilds to be able to reach these late levels relatively fast. this is why I asked on the changelog to test the new leveling rate. there's also the fact guilds will likely gain a few levels when the update drops, though that one is a bit harder to tell how effective it'll be

    EDIT: oh yea i'm also suspecting a fair amount of big guilds have a lot of dead-weight members which aren't active or even quit the game, which means the lowered amount of slots would be less impactful as well as they can just be kicked
     
  9. XeraAndromeda

    XeraAndromeda Empress of Nemract, Queen of Aphelion CHAMPION

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    Thank you for responding. but since Bulb Cave has been removed and the deadweight members makes sense the issue is many guilds I know including my own have a slight habit of kicking anyone gone for over 10 days or ones who don't participate in the community this kind of update would cause significant issue ot the community aspect. I believe guilds originally were designed to be permanent parties, ways to talk to people and build a community. The way it's currently balanced however would lead to the splitting of these communities or even community focused guilds who just want ot have fun and not have to grind 20billion xp just to be able to get the same amount of slots. Considering this is a guild update I do not think it should be fully focused on wars and also go deeper into and build more on the community aspects of guilds.

    Sidenote: Salted is there a place where we can put in opinions on guilds wihtout being instantly buried or waiting days to get a response if so may I know how or where to put the opinions.
     
  10. Eyoshin

    Eyoshin Leader of the Cinfras Secret Seal Task Force CHAMPION

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    I get the intention for why they are doing it, but I think they are going about it wrong.
     
  11. catking00

    catking00 Homeless

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    I'm not even going to rebut this. This is just too silly. Instead, take these stats:
    • Exactly 10 guilds in the entire game are currently level 72 or higher.
    • The current highest level guild, Hax, is level 87 on the Hero Beta (their xp is from April)
    • A level 90 guild in the Hero Beta has 51 total member slots
    • A level 88 guild in 1.19 (the current version) has 92 total member slots
    Apparently even being in the top 10 isn't enough to live up to Salted's expectations

    I believe Cath already gave you an earful about this, so I'll just add one thing: the people grinding there know what they're doing. The average player wouldn't achieve such high rates.

    While this is factually correct, it ignores the fact that currently at the highest levels, you gain 5 member slots every 6 levels, which is the fastest rate out of any guild level we currently know of. So those few precious extra levels will give some guilds an extra 5 slots, but most will get a whopping 0.

    Funnily enough, the reality is the exact opposite. Small guilds don't care if players aren't active, leading to many being almost completely dead. Large guilds, on the other hand, have activity checks and requirements. Many have entire channels, bots, roles, and spreadsheets dedicated to activity in some way, shape, or form. Of the over 20 guild Discords I'm in, I'd bet that fewer than 3 of those don't kick players for inactivity.

    Wasn't this update supposed to help small guilds? Am I missing something? The only feature I've seen so far which helps small guilds are badges. Whoop-de-doo.
     
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  12. Salted

    Salted Game Design & Wynncraft Founder Staff Member Admin GM CHAMPION

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    i apologize?
     
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  13. XeraAndromeda

    XeraAndromeda Empress of Nemract, Queen of Aphelion CHAMPION

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    Just... Salted can we please have more slots
     
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  14. catking00

    catking00 Homeless

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    All I want is to know who to talk to regarding guilds so we're able to entertain an actual dialogue. Currently we're stuck in an unhealthy loop of no communication followed by backlash the moment any change is revealed, primarily out of the frustrations of players who see how negatively the changes will affect not only themselves, but also others.

    Most of the current guild backlash is from players who are in large guilds. This update significantly boosts large guilds, encouraging one mega-alliance to form. It doesn't even look like there will be FFAs in the coming update. There will be nothing for small guilds to hold, even just to level.

    Once again, most of the backlash is from players in large guilds that will directly benefit from this update. That should tell you something.

    So no, apology not accepted.
     
  15. Salted

    Salted Game Design & Wynncraft Founder Staff Member Admin GM CHAMPION

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    I just don't get the agressive responses or the begging ones. guilds have received updates every beta patch so far, literally half of my last 10 messages on this forums were about guilds and stuff we're doing with them, i even posted a thread about feedback for an issue we want to fix. i spent some times discussing some guild war issues on discord last night, i talked to a few guild people in game and warred a little with random peeps (though i almost always insta-die). i took only 3 days to answer this thread and didn't even say we wouldn't change our minds about it, just stating why we did this. i legitimately thought i was doing a pretty good job even though i haven't fixed or promised a solution to everything so far
     
  16. XeraAndromeda

    XeraAndromeda Empress of Nemract, Queen of Aphelion CHAMPION

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    It's more I believe that guilds tend to get frustrated or annoyed when our communities get threatened. Even if you took only 3 days to reply it's just that some people have been looking for answers for ages and haven't gotten any replies out of it or even meaningful answers from any staff. This is more of an opinion and not a fact but when it comes to guilds the absolute flipping of the system in a way where it just sometimes doesn't make sense to us, even with the reasons that you provided it's more that guilds are just kind of having a yikes.


    On my personal opinion I do believe xp requirements should be either lowered further or more slots be added based on the xp requirements of the current guilds: ie if guilds have the same xp they have now on the beta they get the same amount of member slots. Many guilds have been building communities for years even without territories and it feels like the community oriented guilds usually don't have a voice since they rarely dominate the map or even try to take territories. Even some war guilds currently feel ignored when it comes to the major issues they're bringing up and well true or not that is my take on this.

    On a suggestion on my part more community oriented non territory related guild changes are much appreciated. A guild hall possibly or something like that at lvl 45+


    And no offence or aggression intended on my part Salted. If it seemed that way, it was just more on my part concern as I know several community guilds who would just be destroyed by this update as well as war based guilds too
     
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  17. Essentuan

    Essentuan Well-Known Adventurer

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    With an issue like guilds where if the community thinks the update isn't good or wasn't the correct direction they will complain a lot more than the main player base, I feel like it would've been better to take community input on this since most of the community doesn't care about guilds. While the current guild update is basically finished and wouldn't be practical to redo I do feel that there are both good and bad things from this update.

    Trading and guild resources was a major highlight for me, having to get resources to increase your defenses is a good idea and should be the direction guild defenses take. An idea I've always thought would be interesting is having one single army that you have to maintain with resources then allowing the guild to then select how many troops go to each territory which would be an interesting dynamic to see having to plan the movement of the ingame troops and your player troops.
     
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  18. Salted

    Salted Game Design & Wynncraft Founder Staff Member Admin GM CHAMPION

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    don't worry you were the "or the begging ones" from my comment
     
  19. Eyoshin

    Eyoshin Leader of the Cinfras Secret Seal Task Force CHAMPION

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    lmao
     
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  20. catking00

    catking00 Homeless

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    Don't get me wrong, we're thrilled that there's an update (and each patch has fixed multiple game-breaking bugs), it's just that we feel that most of these changes are coming out of left field. I don't dislike the new guild system, I dislike that the more I learn about it the more it seems that what we're told the intent is is completely disconnected from what the developers are creating.

    One of the big things that I've been hearing since well before the beta even began is that the update is supposed to help small guilds, which is a large part of why both of my previous two posts in this thread brings it up. Looking at the beta, this is obviously not the reality. If the goal is to help out large guilds, then the update hit the nail on the head. I highly doubt this is the intent, however. (Guilds are genuinely much better now, though. Guild banks, uninviting, wars, etc)

    I'm also not trying to slam you in particular for not being communicative. The point of me asking who to talk to is so that we're able to go to the source to better understand the intent and changes, rather than going on a wild goose chase piecing together disparate pieces of information, many of which slightly contradict each other. Considering you have your own life on top of managing all of Wynncraft, I would say you're actually pretty good on the communication front.

    TL;DR: You're communicative. We like updates, just not when they hurt the community. We want to understand the reasoning behind decisions and be able to be more involved.
     
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