The Next Update Might Be A Gavel Revamp.

MintIceCream57 · Sep 3, 2018

Aarontti said: ↑

There's a stark difference between how much gameplay the game offers you, and how much of it you actually go through.

You might grind from level 1 to 100 in a dozen hours, while another player takes the time to do quests, discover hidden things, explore the map, play through challenges, design equipment builds of their own, and generally make sure to take in as much as they can for over a hundred hours. Not to forget that playing through the game is a different experience on all classes, with a high chance to discover plenty of new things you didn't go through on the previous playthrough. Sure, a normal player wouldn't go through literally all of it, nor would they do it all 4 times, but the game does offer you the chance to do so.

So yes, even though the numbers were used as a mere example for comparing the two, they do seem moderately realistic.
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captainganon said: ↑

let me make this clear: when i say "300-400 hours of gameplay," i think of 300-400 hours of designed and/or purposeful content, such questing, minigames/things to do, and some exploration. For example, if I spent 50 hours just running around the map in the Witcher 3, I wouldn't call that 50 hours of content. That is, I consider what's in the world as content and less the world itself. Maybe that seems a little harsh, but any and every game can be said to have virtually infinite hours of playtime otherwise.

im perfectly willing to believe that an update like this could multiply the game's content several times over, the point was simply that people shouldnt expect to be able to easily spend 3000 hours on wynn, and that guessing content off of that number probably isnt the best idea

didnt mean to be particularly cynical over the actual number of hours, i should've made that clear
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Dr Zed said: ↑

Well, I’m not quite sure what you mean by what counts towards the gameplay hours. In every game, gameplay time is how much time it takes to reach the end or 100% completion. The only way a player could realistically approach 300-400 hours of content is by completing the game 10 times over. Which for most people that’s quite extreme and doesn’t really count as gameplay, especially since 6 of those 10 playthroughs don’t offer any new gameplay or class mechanics.

Therefore, a playthrough on each class is what should be considered as completing the game 100%. And a typical playthrough is about 20-30 hours, which times 4 is nowhere near JP’s numbers. I get it that some people may take shorter or longer, but realistically, almost no one takes 100 hours to do one play through. Besides, it’s meant to be an average anyway.

There’s no way you can approach 3000 in a game, period. There might be some exceptions, but again, without repeating stuff with no new content/mechanics, it’s impossible.

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Gameplay hour numbers, especially at this scale, don’t tell us much anyway. If anything, it could be considered a bad sign, especially since this is an MMO.

The best games are those that are concise and consistent, regardless of their length. While some of the worst games such as Final Fantasy XIII are padded like a menstruating fire hose. Given this is an MMO and how much the genre likes to ‘add’ gameplay hours by grinding or other random fluff, I would be a bit cautious.

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I literally don’t expect anything because Grian told us to, so I don’t know if speculation is a good idea to begin with.
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Dr Zed said: ↑

Then theoretically, every game would have an infinite amount of gameplay because people can always replay them. When people talk about how long a game is, it’s typically how long it takes to reach the end or 100% completion on average, which takes into account the variability of each player’s playtime.
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Anthony Fantano said: ↑

You meant Final Hallway XIII?
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Dr Zed said: ↑

Oh sorry my bad :D

The most surprising thing about that game is that they thought it was a good idea to make a sequel off of it....
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TheWildTester said: ↑

Regardless of how many gameplay hours there actually I think that jpresent does want to give us the message that this update is gonna bring in a lot more of those hours and I would expect the update to have a lot more depth to with new systems that can greatly increase the amount of gameplay hours alongside the usual new content
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Dr Zed said: ↑

That’s what I mean; the number of “theoretical” gameplay hours in the case can be extremely misleading. And as I outlined before, I define gameplay hours as how long it takes to reach the end or 100% completion. So grinding classes 10 classes or getting every mythic in game wouldn’t count because the former only has unique gameplay in 4 playthroughs, and nobody was ever meant to hold every mythic.
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Aarontti said: ↑

Gameplay hours in general, and especially in this context refer to the estimated full amount of potential interactive gameplay you can get out of the game on average. For Wynn, this includes essentially everything excluding repeated steps, repeatedly discovering same areas. This isn't something you can accurately calculate either. More about this down below.

I can't really make out whether by "100%" you mean playing a game from start to finish, or observing every item and spot that's interactable. However, claiming that this is the case for every game is false information on several levels. For a linear, story driven triple-A game this is usually correct, since you only have a single main objective within a confined area in order to progress. However, an open world RPG doesn't work the same way, due to containing optional interactive content. Sure, an average playthrough of the main storyline for such a game might be 10 hours, but that doesnt mean the gameplay time is 10 hours. At the same time, another player might spend 50 hours afk within a game, yet that doesn't mean the gameplay time is over 50 hours.

The easiest way to get an estimated gameplay time is to split everything interactive a game has to offer into sections, take the average times of each first run, and add them up together.

While you're going through the same story, the way you move and attack are different, and the way you grind and build up your class are likely to be different aswell, which I would definitely count towards gameplay time. For the sake of same story I'd say quests don't count towards the total time, but

The duration of an average playthrough has nothing to do with the numbers, since one barely contains a fraction of everything there is to complete, discover and fill progress bars with. As an unrelated sidenote, 20-30 hours for an average single playthrough is an unrealistically low estimate. Heck, I know the solutions to all puzzles and quests, yet I still take my time up to 80 hours to get from 1-100 on a single class, without intentional stalling. If we're looking at an average here, I'd say it's closer to 40-60, considering that people speedrun 1-100 in under 10 hours.

As I clearly mentioned in the last post, the numbers were most definitely just referential for the sake of comparing. I can't believe this whole shitshow started from me saying the single line of "moderately realistic"
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Dr Zed said: ↑

That's practically what I meant by reaching 100% on a single playthrough which

What I meant by 100% is:
Completing every quest
Discover every area, boss altar, and discovery
Reach level 100 on one class
Do each dungeon at least once

What doesn't count:
Getting every mythic
Reaching level 1010
Getting to level 101

When most people refer to gameplay time, they typically refer to how long it takes to reach the end of the game or reach 100%, assuming players are active for most of the period. Reaching the end of the storyline could be considered as the amount of gameplay time, just not the total gameplay time. Hence why articles and players usually specify if the amount of time is for reaching a specific goal or to do everything in the game. This criteria covers almost everything you can do ingame without being repetitive, and is more than what most people do in their playthroughs.

Hence why I said earlier that reaching level 1000 or 1010 doesn't count because 6 of those playthroughs don't offer any new playstyles or new class mechanics. Sure, there are plenty of builds, but you don't need a new class for those or different builds to reach 100% of the game (by my standards).

Even if it's close to 40-60, it's still way off from JP's original answer if you assume that 100% counts as 4 playthroughs each on a different class that covers all the criteria above.

If there's one thing that's definitely wrong here though it's the 2500 to 3000 hours. For comparison, Skyrim takes around 300 to 500 hours to get practically 100% complete (there are technically a limitless amount of quests, but that falls under being repetitive). I think we can all agree that Wynncraft has no where near amount of content as Skyrim, nor will it. Again, my whole point is that what JP said is EXTREMELY misleading. No game takes over a 1000 hours to get 100% completion. I know people who HAVE gotten over 1000 hours on a game, but that doesn't mean that it TOOK a 1000 hours to get to 100% completion.

And either way, my point still stands that gameplay hours aren't a good indicator of the quality of a game (especially when the projected numbers are laughably inflated). The best games are those that are concise, and given the MMO genre, there's more reason to be worried than excited...
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Ok, would everyone STOP ARGUING about the definition of gameplay and the amount of it in wynn. This thread is for speculation, not a war over pedantics. Go to Grian’s thread or the one with JP’s actual post if you want to fight.

MintIceCream57 · Sep 3, 2018

Robbee said: ↑

Well, I think we can come to the conclusion that the number of hours a game can offer depends on the definition of "gameplay hours". For some it might be achieving 100% (which again is not exactly clear). But personal I would define the "gameplay hours" a game can offer as the amount of time an active player can play a game without getting bored, so it also includes "post-game content" like starting over with the other three classes, loot running, trading, trying to aquire one or more mythics, creating endgame builds with different playstyles, doing LI several times with different builds to get some diamond items, participating in guild wars, doing PvP and so on. Again, this is a very vague definition because you can't strictly define what is a "normal player" (who just plays through the game until he reaches level 100 and is done with it), what is an "active players" (who does all the things I listed before and doesn't get bored) and what is a "extreme player" (who just does repetitive grinding which I would count toward gameplay hours). But although we can safely say that by far the most players won't reach these numbers, I would assume that most of the "forum elite" who actively participate in the guild, trade market and class building sections has several houndred hours of playtime and isn't too bored have several hundred hours of playtime. So in theory, this game can keep you busy for 300-400 hours without getting repetitive or boring, although most players stop before.
By this definition it doesn't take that much work to drastically increase the gameplay hours, as long as it is done right. Just creating a more complex battle system can allow players to spend much more time thinking about new tactics and playstyles and trying them out. Add a well-working PvP-system and you get a competitive-scene putting even more hours into the game. It might be difficult to invent such a system that allows tons of strategies with only a few mechanics but it is possible if someone has the right ideas. Take Pokemon as an example: The main series game can easily be completed in 20-30 hours, but just by making the combat system more complex and balanced the game automatically got a competitive scene with people easily putting hundereds an thousands of hours into the game, thinking about new strategies and teams and battling other players. Of course the majority of players will just play the story and be done with the game, just like most players will just play to level 100 in Wynncraft, but if you are the kind of person who is interested in looking at a game in a more in-depth way, you can easily spend much more time with them, so I would say it is possible to say that they can offer several hundred or thousand hours of gameplay experience, which isn't just repetitive and boring.
And this is also a factor that can seperate games from each other. Some are just about completing the story, achieving the 100%, while others have much more depth to offer, and in these cases it mainly depends on the players will to address this complexity, if he is interested enough, he can easily experience tons of interesting, non-repetitive gameplay hours.
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The Lethe said: ↑

Ok, would everyone STOP ARGUING about the definition of gameplay and the amount of it in wynn. This thread is for speculation, not a war over pedantics. Go to Grian’s thread or the one with JP’s actual post if you want to fight.
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Dude. Read. The post. Above you.

Robbee · Sep 3, 2018

The Lethe said: ↑

Dude. Read. The post. Above you.
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Well, if you look at the time numbers, you could have seen that my post was so short after yours that I heaven't read it. I posted it under this thread because in my opinion it has the more interesting arguments, but after I saw you post I deleted it to post it under the other thread.

MintIceCream57 · Sep 3, 2018

Robbee said: ↑

Well, if you look at the time numbers, you could have seen that my post was so short after yours that I heaven't read it. I posted it under this thread because in my opinion it has the more interesting arguments, but after I saw you post I deleted it to post it under the other thread.
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Thank you.

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The Next Update Might Be A Gavel Revamp.

What’s the next update

PvP update

Gavel update

New Mechanics

Grian’s a troll and it’s RtD

1.18

Grinding

New mechanics

Just a single god item that’s a level 1 mythic

You put new mechanics twice

MintIceCream57 Mistrise Mystic

MintIceCream57 Mistrise Mystic

Robbee Well-Known Adventurer

MintIceCream57 Mistrise Mystic