The New Rank Is Absolute Pay To Win

/swich and bomb bell are too op.
/swich can give you a serious advantage if someone shouts that there is a dungeon party or loot bombs.
The Bomb Bell explains itself why it is unfair

 

I don't even think /switch is an issue. If somebody wants to shout out that they're having a bomb party, I see no issue with giving people who paid a better chance of getting in. I think the biggest issue is the combination of the two since you can see secret bomb parties and join them easily. If they got rid of the bomb bell (or nerfed it somehow) I don't think I would have an issue with /switch or the reserved server spots at all.

Regardless of all that though, the clear issue isn't really the features, it's the fact that bombs are basically a requirement to do professions and run dungeons for XP. Dungeon bombs are kinda getting nerfed by the dungeon chest system (not really though) but prof bombs essentially let you level up 4 times faster, and even with them it still takes hours to level up past 80. If the grind got fixed I don't think I would even care about the bomb bell either.

 

QOL=P2W
ten characters

 

"I see no issue with giving people who paid a better chance of getting in. "

How can you say that you see no issue if people have paid and get advantages???
Do you want a pay to win game??
We all know that games can earn money by selling cosmetics. This helps the community and is fair.

WHY WHOULD YOU SAY IT IS OK IF THE GAME is P2W???
Pay to win destroys a community and a game.
If this is a one time thing and they make it a bit less p2w thats ok. But we all know what happens if we allow it once. We have to resist in this case because this game is important to all of us and because pay to win can destroy the feeling you get when you play a game really fast.

Edit: I agree with most other things you said tho. But that one thing is ridiculous.

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HUNTED MODE + GATHERING XP ARMOR.

 

I agree with you here, but one thing to remember is that Salted is really involved with talking to the community and getting feedback, so he knows what the feedback is and knows that if Wynn (hypothetically) were to become more p2w that the community would become pretty toxic and signal the beginning of the end of Wynn. Wynn is not large enough to support a bunch of players leaving because it became p2w.

 

You failed to read it in its entirety. He goes on to state how he sees the 2 together as problematic. Even if bomb bell didnt exist, would you still consider /switch unfair due the the fact champion people would be able to get into servers pinged by the bomb tracker discord or a announced by shout? Imo /switch is a fine QOL feature, but combining it with bomb bell is a little too much, as said above.

 

Although I fully agree woth you, it is his opinion. No nees to get mad.

 

Yes that is true. And that is also my concern.
Ive never spend ANY money on a rank or cosmetics or somehing. NEVER. But Im thinking about buying VIP+ because I want to support this game. Wynncraft is great and it gets carried by the community and the people working on it. Salted is a great person, but I think he underestimates what p2w does to a community server.

And how should I buy VIP+ after they release a p2w rank?? I wont support a game, even if it is wynncraft, if there is any mayor p2w advantage.

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I read the whole sentence and I know what he wanted to say. But that is still a pay to win feature if it only gives advantages if someone shouts. I respect his opinions but I want to express my frustration about that statement.

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Yes you are right. I just want to express frustration. Im not mad at him as a person or anything

 

I think the time to get mad is if/when we know exactly what all the perks for champion are and there are still features that are causing concern as potentially p2w. Right now we’re basing all our concerns on a sneak peek at a rank that’s not even fully finished. Salted is still deciding on perks and the price, so once we know that, I think the discussion can get more nuanced and productive.

 

True. I wont discuss it in any new post until the update is released.
But maybe it is also important to have a little bit of attention... to get salted to think about it twice ...

 

Oh don’t get me wrong, I think the discussion about it is definitely valid and really helpful to salted, but I’m saying there’s no need (for anyone) to get mad about perks of a rank that aren’t even confirmed to be in the final release. Discussion is good, but I think concern is better suited to the discussions than anger.

 

I agree. Dont worry Im not angry :D
Im concerned. Like really concerned.

 

Edit: I didn't see how long this was before I posted it, just want to say you had a fair criticism of what I said and I want to be clear that I have no hostility towards you. It's hard to convey a friendly tone in a long response so I wanted to clarify that before you read it. Thanks!

First, I just want to point out that while we don't know how Wynn makes most of their money, cosmetics (crates and pets) are probably not a huge source of revenue compared to bombs. Based on that alone, I think the argument could be made that the game has been P2W for a long, long time now. While I don't honestly believe that, I do think it's important to keep in mind when discussing any new P2W features.

I think the point I wanted to make (and could have done a better job at communicating) is that I don't really see having easier access to full servers as a problem in a vacuum. If bombs didn't exist at all, people would probably love this since it would make meeting up to trade or hangout easier. Looking at the situation as a whole, the P2W issue here is clearly not the ability to switch servers more easily, it's the overwhelming advantage prof and dungeon bombs give.

Bombs are the issue, but they can be fixed. A long, long time ago, combat xp bombs were super broken too. people would save up nearly finished quests until they could get a DXP weekend and have a DXP bomb thrown so they would get 3x quest XP and since there were no good ways to get xp other then grinding, the bombs were essential to leveling up quickly. If you look at the meta today, combat xp bombs are good, but at no point have I thought I needed them to efficiently level up any of my classes which is how bombs should be.

As of now (1.19), dungeon parties are the best way to get xp and the only reasonable way to level up profs past 90 is to use at least double xp, with anything past 100 being basically impossible for a normal person with a life unless you have both prof bombs to get 4x xp.

To solve the dungeon party issue, I would make it so you can't use DXP and dungeon bombs at the same time. By doing that, you basically cut dungeon party xp down by 50% which in my mind is probably enough to make them a lot less broken.

To solve the Prof problem, I would just double the prof xp gain like they did for combat and make it so only one type of prof bomb can be used at once.

In a world where these changes were made along side the release of Champion in its current state, I would still have a problem with the bell, but I think the community would be a lot less angry about the rank as a whole and we probably wouldn't even be talking about the switching stuff at all* (big asterisk for that since I can't see into other realities).

With all that said, I think my point is this; The reason why the switching stuff is P2W is a symptom of the larger P2W issue, so I'll take this chance to double down on what I said before, but I'll also add that I don't think it's productive to debate about how bad these new features are when we really should be discussing how to fix the underling issue of bombs being too powerful.

 

I agree.
There is only one problem. Bombs (yes they are a little p2w too but since everyone on the server gets a benefit its not as p2w as Champion could be if implemented badly) are probably the main sources of Wynncrafts income. Wynncraft costs 30.000 dollars (not only the server but also the payments for defs, admins, managers) and Bombs bring a lot of money. I dont know how the sales would look if Salted made Bombs less important. I just thing we should be aware of the things a badly implemented champion rank could maybe do.

Also Dungeon parties get fixed in the new update. You need to actively kill mobs to get any dungeon rewards and wall huggers wont get anything. On top of that the dungeon-level scales with the highest level player in the dungeon and some mobs (including the boss) do a lot more dmg if you go into the dungeon with more people (they sarted to struggle with 6-7 ppl in the testing). Because Dungeon Keys allow up to 4 players to enter the dungeon (hope that numer is correct not sure) dungeon bomb sales will get less. Thats one of the reasons why Champion gets added btw.

And yes, professions are impossible without bombs.

 

1) Announce glowbulb party
2) Get some ........... that throws dungeon bomb right before the beggining, making you waste shout because you need to move to a new server

 

Good point, maybe some sort of opt in system where you need to accept the bomb like with scribing scrolls would be a better way to handle the issue. I guess I'm mostly concerned with only being able to use one bomb and I don't really care about what system is put in place to make it work.

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I think I need to see what the actual fix is before agreeing they fixed dungeons, especially since I was under the impression the rewards in question are for the forgery chest, not the regular dungeon drops (and even then as long as it doesn't affect XP is still doesn't really fix the problem). I also don't think the key "fix" is really going to do anything since in order to be able to use the forgery chest you still need 7 keys, even if it is between 4 players which is almost certainly not going to be worth the effort. That being said, they are getting close to fixing Dbombs. I think at this point, they could totally fix the problem is they added broken keys into the drop pool for daily chests (average 1 per day for level 100+) to incentivize use of the forgery chest, removed dungeon fragments (because they're pointless) and added consumables like prof xp scrolls, special skill pots and crafting ingredients to each dungeons shop to give some bonus reward for running them once you have all the gear you need.

Of course, by adding in prof xp scrolls into the dungeon shop, they could also help solve some of the issues I have with professions so there's that to think about too...

 

I mean yes, that will probably be a possibility still. But the only reason people started with hunted mode was because there weren't any gather xp ingredients. My personal belief is that hunting profers is not kind and should be frowned upon. However. I also think that when a xp boost is available so hunted is no longer necessary, its your own fault if you choose to combine the two, if you then get killed. They've implemented the xp ingredients so hunted wont be "needed" anymore. So combining the two to get even more, makes the risk of dying more fair than before. This way they can have the hunted mode they wanted, and profers can have the xp boost they needed.

 

Do people really hunt people who are gathering materials?
If yes that would be really annoying for the grinders.. oof

 

Dude you have no idea. There have been huge debates and people have been banned from discord servers for hunting proffers.

edit: that’s why it’s good that gathering ingredients are being added. It may offset both the toxicity associated with hunting and also the necessity for prof bombs. I think we might be underestimating how much bombs are going to lose value for non-tryhard proffers.

 

Which is exactly why Hunted was a terrible, terrible solution to profs being grindy