Info The Elemental Revamp: Part 1 - Endgame Overhaul - Updated Changelog Beta 1.1.1

i meant that it isnt as detrimental to the admins, but it is annoying to the players lol

 

Items anf such take no were near as long as coding, and map making. Even then the map should be mostly done. Its not there fault every thing takes different amounts of time.

 

correct. it isn’t their fault. It is the admins’. yes. I am very glad you understood my argument.

I would like to think that the higher-ups understand that work from the IMs is fast and they are able to compensate. But, from all that I know about the update, it seems as though the item team has just worked on this in their spare time, and wasn’t started as a project by the admins. It very well could have been, in which case it would have been lovely to know such an addition was coming once they had started the project

 

.— .... -.—

 

The item team wanted to do this.
They weren't made to do this by admins.

 

lmao well you proved my edit’s point while i was still editing

and also i was implying that it is the fault of the admins, or at least the management of the IMs that they had the spare time to work on this

 

Building off what @Epicness937 said, and what I said in #class_builds, they really should add new items for tri element instead of reworking the entire endgame for it. The reply I got from one of the item team members at #class_builds was that there were already 3000 items and adding more would be bad.

I'm sorry, but this shows the incompetence of the item team to try to fix and balance these items, apparently the system is so broken, and there has to be an entire revamp to our endgame to have tri elements in the game. If you wanted tri elements, add them as new items in the current game without disturbing the current meta. That is clearly less of a harm than revamping our entire endgame and annihilating the economy. Although I didn't get this from an item team member yet (will update) I would like to here the response why they are unable to balance maybe a hundred or so new items (nothing compared how much they needed to revamp) but have to revamp the entire endgame
Edit: please prove me wrong item team, I would like to believe that you didn't just do this to make it easier for yourself, and there is actually a huge problem in balancing the current items.

 

How though, I'm confused as fuck on what your argument is.

 

You are 100% right. I pray that they don't go through with this update at all after our feedback and rather than reworking anything make these new items or scrap these and the idea entirely. There seems to be no legitmently good reason for any of this crap to be added into the game.

I'm sorry for calling all the hard work the item team put into this crap but I'm calling it as I see it. It's a huge amount of changes that no one wants to see in the game or asked for. A huge swing and a miss on their end and the best fix is to not realise any rework at all.

 

ig i have a few arguments
a) the cause of this mess, the item team has large swaths of spare time due to their little involvement in updates like Dern (this is a problem because it can lead to out-of-the-blue updates, further explained in b)
b) because of this spare time, they decide to work on projects by themselves, not them being assigned projects by upper management. I think the IMs would work more effectively if they had a clear goal shared by other CTs and Admins
c) because they are working on it as a solo project, they only have the judgement and advice of the item team, and not by the CT members who actually implement these updates to better suit the game they are building. they also have announced that they entirely changing things out of the blue without informing the community. and if they had taken more community advice than “do you want tri-element builds?” and “what element combos are the best suited to the game?”

________________________________

+1 owo

 

Thanks Salted. Thing with the Eco update is that it *gave a lot more than it took away,* and added an entire new profession/crafting system for layers to invest in if they so choose. The outrage about this updat e tho is mostly that not only would it take away nearly everything players worked for in its current state, but also that it would not be a choice and rather forced upon us. ITs not that the concepts of the update are necessarily bad, it's just the the costs of it are monumental. I have not seen a community outcry over an update like this in a long time, perhaps ever in my time at least.

I appreciate y'all taking more time to do a further review of this, and am pleased to see this announcement.

 

What has been given:
Trade Market
Professions
Crafted Items and Ingredients

What has been taken:
Good grind spots w/ actual loot
Most lootruns and arguably lootrunning
A lot of xp
Moneymaking to the point where only exploits can get you similar money/time compared to earlier

People weren't a fan of 1.18 to begin with, and if you didn't want to do professions (completely reasonable), it definitely took away more than it gave, which lead to many people hating this update. Your entire post is, ironically, a pretty good description of the Economy Update without realizing it.

But yes, I think everyone, even outside of the ct, can and should learn from these situations, which is already shown in the way how the response from the community has been handled so far. 1.18 had a similar outcry when the HERO beta dropped, and (some parts of) the ct reacted by ignoring and making fun of feedback and saying the criticism was just wrong. Now, we've gotten something many of us dislike, and the ct has reacted to it by listening to the community feedback, and changing the update accordingly.
Thanks IMs, appreciate it.

 

Well at the very least, some grind spots were added (the level 85 bandits clsoe to canyon walkway, dragonling cave) and new quests to fill in the grind gap were added. only CSST was too easy and abusuable. Lootrunning was nerfed and people had to reroute yeah, but I would not fully agree about the moneymaking part, as what was partly lost in tradional item economy was made up for the crafting market.

The difference with this overhaul update is that it would have taken *nearly every build in the game* with *no alternatives or partial makeups.* Just scrapping the existing and making the new. The Eco update did not fully take away the points you made, which are good points by the way, whereas this update would outright wreck builds, many of which would likely not come back. That is unless the IT makes some massive abjustments to what we've seen thus far

 

has anyone thought about the fact that its not their fault they cant add new items? i mean echo chambers r cool and all but maybe think of reasons why things are like this

 

Thank you for stalling the update to listen to the players in the community. From almost everyone I have seen from both here on the thread, and in discord they have asked for these elemental items as new items instead of revamping everything. I could say almost certainly that the majority of the players on wynn would actually enjoy and love the tri elemental archtypes if they were new items. People don't want their hard work wasted and neither do the CT. Possible solution I see to this (of course this will probably not get done or not to this extent) is to make ALL of revamped items into **new** items and keep the old ones. that still keeps the problems you're trying to fix with this elemental revamp while also keeping the current players happy. Before anyone starts shitting on this, that is just one suggestion and with the new mana system I bet a LOT of the items will see some use one way or another. I've seen several people complain about why the IMs made the balance patch around 1 month ago and why they did it when they would revamp everything anyway. Now besides the health updates to everything, I do think that was kind of pointless but if you listen to your community about the elemental revamp I think a lot of people that lost interest in the game after the eco update might return. But we do need some other content like RTD or Dern itself to back that up. But yeah to Summarize this post 90% of the unhappy players would agree/like the update if the tri elements were new items instead of revamped old ones. You will always get better results from encouragement and positivity (by listening to the players in this case) than shoving something upon them and saying "deal with it". I can't speak for everyone but thankfully many others have spoken with me about this and so far you have listened, hopefully us as the community and you as the staff/CT can fix not only the issues players had with this update, but also problems people had/have with 1.18 together. Time to see if the steak man responds boys lets go

 

what do you mean by "its not their fault they cant add new items?"
also if it isn't then whoever's fault it is will hopefully see the community's outcry and rethink their management of the IMs

 

Alright, time for my final comment on this issue. The last thing I wish to respond to in response to some other players quieries is that I'm aware we can just add hundreds and hundreds of new items just for the Archtypes, and it would add way too many items to the already broad pool. Whic is why I think there should be a midground between adding new items and reavmping current ones. This following method

Is not how it should be done, and is an extremely intimidating statement in itself. There are a multitude of items with clear, distinct uses such as Steamjets, Burnout, Brainwash, Blue Mask, and multiple mythics that don't really need changing, and in the screenshots we see here, having their uniqueness taken away. Rebalances are one thing, but completely changing certain items that are fine the way they have been for years is not wise or is it fair to the community.

Rather than changing every single endgame item, just change some of the currently obscure and useless ones, so they can be refurbished into new, useful versions in support of these archtypes, and then any voids in the system can be filled by new items. For example: the screenshots I see for All for One and Dondasch are great, cuz its adding uniqueness to items that are overlooked and underwhelming right now. I'm thrilled at the idea of new hive items, for instance, and perhaps way more dungeon items, and to be honest I kind of like the archtype idea, but it should be more of a choice and not a destruction of current playstyles in the process.

Take into consideration what currently is and is not boring, underused, unpurposed and what can be done in a less damaging way, and balance the creation of new items with revamping of the old, rather than overly overhauling one or the other. Take the costs of this update more into account and not be laser-focused on what yourre trying to accomplish in the process, which may or may not be even liked inthe end. Ensure that, and also don't scare the community with a "reworking every single endgame item" and a due date "early July," and this could end up being a fascinating update. Perhaps release some new gameplay content or a difficulty buff along with the update, or perhaps in part 2, so we have more and harder content to test these new powers on. (thugh this is not a requirement, just would be an enhancement)

With that, I am officially signing out of my pre-release analysis and opinions for this update, though i will be happy to respond to comments on it.

~Art

 

yessssss +10 if i could

i mean this isnt directly for the IMs to decide but imo the entire CT should be a lot more connected than it appears to be now, so I think that an update with both things I quoted is in order

 

haha funny joke