Info The Elemental Revamp: Part 1 - Endgame Overhaul - Updated Changelog Beta 1.1.1

>uses different powders on armor

 

At the cost of about 50% of its dps. At that point, you'd be better off just making a different build.

Sure, it's not as strong as tierstacking Rikter or Limbo or whatever using regular ETA, but it's melee and does almost entirely water damage, which was the point.

On the subject of spell water warrior, Idol is competitive with Thrundacrack so... (Idol is kinda meh though, I agree on that - but so is Torrential Tide)

 

ah i get it now

 

I still do not think you get the point Turtlebomb was trying to make.

You making a build that is water-based has nothing to do with the fact that there is no spell that warrior has the prefers the element water.
Bash is earth, Charge is fire, Uppercut is earth/thunder, War scream is air/fire.

Please try to understand the point being made before you post a snarky reply.

 

wait are we talking about why spell warrior is the worst play style in the game?

 

Ah I see. I do think spell conversion in general is too high - 35% thunder on Spin Attack in particular is a big one. I personally would prefer all the conversion percents get halved, or something along those lines. I would also definitely agree with adding a conversion for every element on some spell in each class, the way Archer currently is. I do like that some spell conversion exists though, since it allows items to favor different spells - e.g. many people playing spell Archer end up looking at Bomb Arrow for damage, which significantly underrates Gale's Force - it typically has unusually low bomb damage from -earth and Unravel's -fire, but the Arrow Storm and Arrow Shield damage is competitive with other builds that have Bomb Arrow numbers as much as 2k or 3k higher.

 

https://wynndata.tk/s/lnkqc0
Oh and @Parzizal

 

Heh, remember when Diamond Hydro Necklace was a superior choice?

 

Yeah, but do you remember why? or even notice why?
Generally speaking, it was used due to its 2 mana regen, which is fine. It still holds that over royal.
The thing is, I no longer need 1 or even 2 more mana regen, I'm already above 10.
Even if hydro still gave 2 mana regen I wouldn't use it in this case.
I would, and do, prefer more damage, so that's what I have.

If your comment is some snarky remark about hydro being massively worse now then no, I didn't use hydro because mana regen is easier to come by now.

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If your argument against spell warrior has to do with spell conversion, then at the very least your point is mute when it comes to Idol.
It doesn't have spell conversion, its entirely water. I suppose if you're making a no mythic argument then fine, but I feel like in general the mythic that is based on the playstyle is worth a discussion.
Alternatively, add a "Without Idol" to any argument like this I suppose.

 

I laughed too hard at this

 

Why?

 

No, actually the argument is that there is no spell that has any water conversion for warrior, no air conversion for mage, and no fire conversion for assassin. My point has nothing to do with any of those elements being unviable for those classes, hell I have used air mage and fire assassin, the point is that the conversion for those elements does not exist for them in any spell.

 

I laughed too hard at this

 

To be fair, I was directly responding to this.
http://prntscr.com/okgtrl
Which was directly fueled by your argument.

 

I dont know if it was already pointed out but...

wynndata.tk/s/cs3154 | Dancing Blade (No extra armor) 1499dps | 2.8k Spin
wynndata.tk/s/18l5wc | Ivory (Extra Armor w/ 20% Ad) 1480dps |2.6k Spin

this seems ... off.

I dont see any reason that Dancing Blade should do more base Damage without armor than a Legendary Item which is only 2 levels off.

 

love the update and the idea of getting a clean slate for builds etc

 

Okay but have you taken the ID bonuses into account? Ivory has a massive Thunder damage debuff, which decreases the amount of Thunder dealt in a spin attack. That is a specific failure in its damage.
Plus, Ivory has a number of functions that Dancing Blade does not. Health regeneration, mana steal, and rather than debuffing almost every elemental defense, it buffs Thunder and Fire by quite a bit. I would say the smaller amount of damage is a result of the Defense mindset.

 

Ivory has a significant defensive advantage over dancing blade as mentioned above. It has a bit more utility within its mana as well. Another contributing factor is that dancing blade is super fast whereas ivory is only very fast. This is important due to air powders as they add raw base damage to the weapon. Faster speeds benefit more from powders as they have smaller base damage to compensate for the faster speeds. Spell multipliers reflect this as well.

 

Though the builds in the OP are generally representative of their archetypes... many of them are moreso wacky concepts than optimized builds, really. I could see why someone might say the post-revamp power level is too low, looking at those builds.

 

the elemental revamp part 1: build catalogue revamp part 1