Game Design The "disappointing" State Of Gameplay/end Game Content

Disclaimer: No disrespect towards anyone. I love this game and I appreciate all the hard work content team has put into the game. I know Wynn is a small team, but the game leaves a lot to be desired. I love this game, I am going to continue to play it and support it, but things could be a lot better.
"Disappointing" might be too harsh to use here, but not sure how else to describe it.

Originally, I was gonna wait for the code update to see how the state of gameplay will be after, but seeing how economy never changed for better, might as well write my thoughts now and hope they'll be considered. I suppose it doesn't hurt.

Yes, I understand ranting is way easier than actually changing things, but I have no power over the gameplay.
I also understand Wynncraft is a relatively small team, but if builds can be so amazing, then gameplay should be up to par, quality vise, with the builds. In reality, it's comparable to poor state of 2007 Britney Spears.



In the following text, I'm going to reference archer a lot.

1. Class imbalances

Ecto, you parrot!
I know, I'm tired of repeating myself too. Classes, in current state, are not balanced. Is that due to numerous bugs, bad system design or something third, I don't know, and at this point, it's hard to tell. So many issues arise from bugs, like overpowered apoc build, but also from bad core design. For example, mage's heal who has no cooldown, no negative side effects, while healing for 100% health. Have mage in your party/use mage, and every skill required in this game is negated. Candy crush takes more skill to play than mage. How is that possible in MMORPG, I do not know.

In every game, a class that requires high skill, that is glass, is wizard/mage/arcanist, label it as you wish. In this game, it's archer. I don't mind Wynn taking a different spin on classes, but then do it right. Reward archer with high dmg, not mediocre dmg and low defense.

On paper, classes are fine:



In reality, it's more like this:



From those imbalances, gear build issues arise. There are so many items in game, but most of them are irrelevant.

2. Skills need to be changed.

You gave us so many items to use, but all of them are, more or less, similar.

There are too many items and too little different IDs. The amount of different IDs needs to be increased in
order for other items to become important. I heard that's not possible. Not sure if it's true, but if it is, shame, a big shame.

If you made skills customizable, and then gave different items different characteristics that compliment certain skills, then the creativity would rise. If you go for arrow bomb build, then there should be unique items that compliment bomb arrow. So far, builds compliment spell damage, and that is too vague for the sheer number of items in the game.

Anyone played titan quest or grim dawn? Their skill system is amazing. You can also mix 2 different classes.



Also, current spell system is too simple, boring, bland, and after lvl 68(or so) nothing changes. Boring I tell you.

3. Too many items, not enough options

Current skill point system/class design is too restrictive.

Using archer, I'm forced to trade my damage for survivability. No discussion about that. Glass cannon with laggy servers is like running trough a minefield. Yeah, you might survive, but chances for that are comparable to you finding a mythic. You shouldn't bet on it.



I tried several builds, and the only one I had success with, is air+intel. No wonder really, the only thing that saves you as an archer is WS and arrow shield. PvE doesn't count, it's piss easy.

So, why are you introducing so many items to the game while the game forces me to use only a set amount!? How am I supposed to use thunder+fire against bosses and survive? Apparently, I am not.

Let's assume for the minute archer can use any gear. How am I supposed to switch between it?
If you are in LI, for example, you can't use different gear per boss cause SP restrict you. I can't re-spec
every single time cause it costs soul points and it's tedious. You gave us so many different gear to use, and from the start you restrict us so heavily and wonder why people go for the same builds over and over. Game is designed that way.


4. PvE is too easy

Title speaks for itself. I could paint my nails while simultaneously play the game and still do fine in PvE.

PvE=


5. Mythics

Currently, mythics are elitist items only. Their drop rate doesn't fit into the current, other items drop rate.
Why are they so restricted? Most mythics are currently circulating between same people who re-sell them for profit.

Yes, they are absolutely not needed for end game, but if you spend hours upon hours on this game, then you should get something in return. Something good that is. What's the reason majority of the playerbase get's excluded is beyond me. It's not even the case of being a hardcore gamer/being skilled at the game.
You just need a right RNG and you are set for life. Heavy RNG. That's just stupid.

Game doesn't reward you enough for playing, but if you duped LE few years ago, and you got away with it, you are enjoying the game the way honest players should. That's just taking the piss, honest players get shafted while those who cheated are enjoying the best items in the game.
If you are going to quote me on this and say you traded to mythics, whatever. Everyone here is so honest and moral, and yet, 3 years after the great duping, white horse prices still didn't caught up to their right price and there are tons of LE in the circulation.

Yes, there are legit players who earned all their wealth from the game, and kudos to you, but statistically, there are cheaters on the forums. If you are one and reading this, then Capa has a cactus you can sit on.



6. Economy/Greedy community... oh boi

Why was this never addressed? Trading is the only way most of us could ever get close to owning a mythic, but the current state of it is in shambles. In aprox, I need several rodoroc runs to earn 1 LE. 1. And yet, get a decent item, and you can sell it for several LE at a time. Even 10-20 LE per item isn't that uncommon. Not saying that's bad, but the amount of LE you just got is a direct consequence of duping/inflation. No one would buy items at such prices if they would be required to grind mobs for it. Again, game isn't rewarding you for playing true RPG aspects. The amount of LE you get from quests/trading is overprevalent.

I have nothing against people who are rich, but trading (or duping) shouldn't be the only way to achieve it. If I grind for ages, then reward me for god's sake. Also, no one should be able buy a mythic, and sell it for a profit, unless the difference in price between bought - sold is relatively huge.

Game should have been restarted ages ago. Either that, or the servers should have been rolled back after
duping was discovered. Anyone who filled their chests with LE is still enjoying the benefits of being rich.
Pumpkins are/were useless. I got a legit one and I can sell it for a stack, max. Disappointing really.
Once, I was approached by a cheater who sold me his pumpkin for 10 EB. I threw it away, but that kind of price should indicate how bad the duping was, if horse prices aren't enough.

I understand no one wants to start from scratch, cause basically that means the time you spent is wasted.
Perfectly understandable. I don't think restarting, at this point, is an option anymore.
The usual argument is, that people who want a reset have nothing to lose. I have great gear, 1 mythic, 40/40, 2 stacks of LE, 2 stacks of LE worth of powders and a legit pumpkin. I understand I am not rich, but I can afford most items from the game. I have lots to lose, granted it's nothing compared to some people, but I'd trade it in a heartbeat if I knew it would fix the economy/gameplay.

Almost no money drains either.

Emeralds are constantly losing on value. Following the current trend, emeralds are gonna be useless as a currency in the future. Granted, I think it's a long time till then, but I have seen it happen. It happened to Diablo, and Blizzard has their shit together. The fact that you can't earn enough emeralds by grinding mobs is already bad as it is.

7. End game content

Is next to none. You can play another class, do loot runs or play LI. LI's gear, IMO, is not that good, or a worthy upgrade. My archer is air+water. Diamond water rings are not a huge upgrade over the moon pool. If anything, they could be considered a downgrade considering I need 100 intel to use them, and the mana regen is 1/4, compared to 2/4 on moon pool. Air items, require 100 agility as well, and I simply can't afford that many skill points. Or, I could, but I need to trade mana regen in the process. From my experience, not worth it, as the difference is minimal. Tho that could easily be just me, and even if LI is an amazing end game content, it's still very limiting.

Again, loot runs/grinding doesn't reward you enough. I'd grind mobs all day if I knew I could get mythics easier, but really, loot runs are a better option.

8. PvP

Lol, PvP.



Not even sure why Wynn advertises it when it's been ignored from the start.

9. No proper beta testers/game balancers.

Why isn't there such a thing?
Why couldn't people that are really good at the game test the items/updates before it's introduced to the public and express their thoughts? There are some seriously good people out there who could potentially
increase the quality of the gameplay by a fair margin. Game is made for the people, so people should
express their thoughts, not suffer heavy nerfs at a later point because beta testing doesn't exist. It just makes you not want to play the game.

I understand hero can do beta testing, but that's not a proper beta testing. No 7 year old should be able to buy a hero and "test" the game. Don't take the piss. The most they could do is report missing blocks.

Currently, I have a feeling that only beta tester (game balancer) out there is Selvut. He is currently a turtle that's carrying the world on his back.



I am extremely grateful for his efforts, but how much can he do alone? Not much, I'm afraid, as it's not the items that need changing, but the system. IMO, it needs to be done from scratch, starting from PvP, and then balancing PvE/PvB accordingly. PvP has a great potential if done right. From exclusive rewards to hours upon hours of end game content. It's a gold mine if done right. Currently, it's a coal mine, and not that good coal, but those terrible briquettes that sat on rain for too long. Having a proper PvB battle where you are required to organize a party would be great. MMO in the name kinda makes in mandatory, no!?

Ecto, why don't you apply for GM when you are sooo "smart" you arrogant prick!?

Cause I am not interested to be a GM. Last time I saw an application, you are required to make an item, dungeon, quest or a mob. I don't want to do any of that. We have too many of that as it is. I want to test the game, suggest potential changes and help balancing the gameplay. That's what I would be interested in. The gameplay needs fixing cause it flawed, no extra items or mobs can fix that. Also, I have no time to be a GM. If I can't devote myself to it, then I don't deserve to do it, simple.

I'm just gonna quote someone who I think could do wonders for Wynncraft:

Game has huge potential, everyone sees that, but I am seriously disappointed by the state of it.
I understand things could/will be better after the code update, but this are my current thoughts and my feelings towards the game. I still love it, but it can get better, a lot better.

Please, no more location updates until you fix the core problems. I am not saying everything needs to be perfect, but fixing the skill point bug for a start would be nice. It's only a matter of time I'm gonna be kicked out of the game and lose my items in lava when doing a loot run.

tl;dr: I'm a crybaby

 

This is a really good thread

I agree

 

The sad part is that they will most likely do nothing about this,after the code fix there will be a year pause and then another province update,again half a year/year pause and again until nobody will play and the server will die,more fixing less adding,good job on putting all the problems in one thread.

 

I agree completely with this, I feel like the devs are making it so theres to much content so eventually it will be impossible to fix old shit.

 

On gameplay, people were supposed to enter there name and they pick random people
that however was the last public beta, only some specific people got to play corkus beta (hippie, solo, ct, etc.)

and yeah i guess alot of this is true

 

So, a section about class unbalancing that doesn't mention Assassin?
That's a riot.

 

Fair enough if there were people that tested the game and shared the thoughts, but considering how I never heard of solo, ct, and that I never see hippie here, I can't call them proper beta testers either.

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I know nothing about assassins, only that cata is too strong.

 

You have a lvl 70 assassin.

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and cata + rainbow tank is OP, yes (surprisingly enough, this build can exist).

 

Fair enough, my assassin is pre-gavel, meaning i haven't touched him since then. Things were different back then.

 

Yeah.
Assassin got nerfed pretty hard, and now it's considered the worst class in the game (for many people).

 

So why do you call it OP now, without even touching it after gavel? You should have tested the class before writing in your thread about how crazy OP it is. I strongly recommend you to change that. I still can agree with most of the parts you said.

 

Not calling it OP, just not balanced. Assassin was always too good against bosses. The vanish is too good as a spell. It was always a constant spam between multihit and vanish, over and over again, until you killed the thing.
I have seen the cata builds, 20k spin while having high health/defense isn't anything that can be considered balanced.
Granted, it's just the cata, but that was my reference to an extent. Also I understand there is a cata substitute which doesn't take much from the damage.

Tho I get your point, if assassin is not OP, he is not OP, and I will change that. My main focus were mage and warrior in all honesty, didn't pay much
attention to assassin.

 

I would like to point out that the Corkus beta was not public. It was a private beta to test if quests were broken. After that was done we allowed a few youtubers to make some early videos to promote Corkus and get people hyped a little more.


For the main thread I do plan on responding to it later today.

 

"Private beta" they didn't test most of the broken things and when they did,most of the broken stuff magicaly worked.Next time when there will be private beta more people should test it,some staff members or some chosen players like top 10 etc.

 

We had about 30 ct members testing it for a week, and we got rid of all the bugs we found.
The bugs that were on main were new and only occurred after the map was pushed it someone doing something we did not.
The youtubers were not involved with the private beta, they were there to play it early.

 

You make some good points, but as you yourself said, this feels more like a pent-up rant more than anything, despite that, 7/10.

Honestly, class balance discussion is often hyperbolic with how many "problems" it has, if you balance the classes, and ONLY the classes, not including any gear, then they're mostly fine, with the main outliers being the current War Scream bug, and Mage's bullshit.
However, when you introduce items/weapons (mainly Mythics) into the mix, that's when the problems arise.

Ehh, I don't know why, but I feel like this wouldn't really "fit" in Wynn, it would just feel tedious to make a build with IDs that would cater to very specific situations.
New IDs would be nice, if possible of course.

This section feels a little more contrived than the others, as this is more of an issue with class/item balancing than anything, this one siphons too much from section 1 and 2 to really make itself float.

I very much agree on this one, currently debating if I should bring this thread back from the dead: https://forums.wynncraft.com/thread...-difficulty-from-mid-game-to-end-game.185760/

I honestly don't see this as much as a problem as others, I've explained it before but I'll try to keep it short.
-With how strong items from high-levelled dungeons are, I like to think that WIP dungeons like Corrupted Galleon's Graveyard +others will introduce items that are comparable to Mythics but don't require stacks of $$$.
-There are already dungeon items that are comparable to Mythics. (Corrupted Witherhead's Bow similar to Az, etc.)
-Every dungeon item costs basically 0 emeralds, keys/runes/avia feathers aren't that hard to find, and even if you want to speed up the process, you'll really only need a couple liquids at most to buy the keys (or Dungeon bombs)

Not really going to say much on this, because I'm really not in the mood to discuss Wynn economy right now, if you want to know my opinion, just go look for Orange's economy discussion thread.

Again, this feels a little contrived, as this section is almost a recap of everything in this thread, in the form of problems an endgame player may run into.

Wynn has always been a PvE-centered game, and I don't ever recall Wynn using PvP as it's main advertising hook. PvP has always been a second thought.

Again, not much to say on this, but having more people test balance stuff would be nice.

Hoping that code update is also a balance update.
Praise Selvut

Oh come on, don't be like that, at least have some faith in the CT.

 

It's hard writing something like this and not make it look like a rant. Just my honest opinion which can always change.

Apprecaite your feedback, cheers.

 

o i see

 

I wish they would stop working on new areas and make an update completely focused on the issues the game has, especially the economy. The mythic changes I sort of agree with, but I think they should just make them drop a little more commonly, while still being very rare

 

i agree with all of this oml

selvut is very good at balancing, he wont let dungeon items be as good as mythics
just look at salticidae/archangel or corrupted bow/az

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^^^^^^^^^^^^

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problem is, some items go for 2-3 stacks of le when another item of the same tier goes for 40 stacks
thats just terrible game design and for once its not the fault of the economy