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So I Can't Be The Only One Who Thinks That Mage Is An Awful Class Right?

Discussion in 'Wynncraft' started by Sourpowerpete, Jan 14, 2020.

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  1. Sourpowerpete

    Sourpowerpete Well-Known Adventurer

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    Even as a support class, its role is usurped by Shaman. Even if Shaman didn't exist though, healing pots are so cheap and common that mage "as a support class" might as well not exist.

    It's also just a really boring class.

    Here's what I would do to make the class more interesting and have a more unique role.

    1. Make meteors fast at all levels. Make the current level 3 upgrade the new level 2 upgrade. Make the level 3 upgrade the ability to cast 2 meteors at once. Perhaps nerf the damage of meteor at all levels to compensate for these changes.
    2. Make heal do more healing to teammates. Perhaps this could be where 20-5-5 returns?
    3. Replace ice snake with a new spell, "Concentrate". Locks the character in place (can still turn, attack, and use spells), but regen mana faster for a short time. Spell costs nothing to cast. Makes mana regen faster for nearby players as well.
    4. Fix teleport
    5. Fix meteor auto targeting or remove it entirely

    But that's just me. What are your thoughts on the class?
     
  2. Spenchilada

    Spenchilada Well-Known Adventurer

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    So.... basically you're wrong.

    The way mages function give rise to all sorts of different builds - their spells are diverse in a way that other classes' aren't. For example, although they only have 1 damaging spell, their other spells have blindness, stunning, freezing, and of course healing.

    As a support class, they can often be more effective than shamans. For example, ice snake/teleport freezes/stuns without, well, flinging the mob around like it's an archer on a sugar rush. Also, you can run out of heal pots, while a mage can never run out of heals.

    1. Meteors falling faster at all levels doesn't change much, like are you really unable to live with the 30 levels of slow meteors. Casting 2 meteors at once would be an enormous dps increase, which defeats the whole purpose of being able to spam other spells while using meteor. Meteor damage would have to be cut to less than a third of its current damage in order to compensate.
    2. Current healing is perfectly fine in my opinion. Increasing the amount of healing is pointless, since mages were never meant to be an entire replacement to potions. An extremely helpful substitute, sure. But potions still need a use, just as mages shouldn't only be used for their healing capabilities.
    3. This would be game breaking. Given that mage can easily stunlock mobs, being able to cast a 0 cost spell to replenish mana would be extremely overpowered. Adding AoE so that other players can get it too? Even worse.
    4. Not sure what there is to fix?? Teleport is a great movement spell, but in addition it can be used as a stunlock.
    5. I personally have never had a problem with meteor autotargeting, although many people seem to complain about it. However, I would still keep it since it still saves 90% of your shots.

    In summary, mages are a diverse class that allows for many different kinds of playstyles that are extremely effective in each of their respective areas. Honestly, props to the CT for managing to make a class that can handle literally every type of playstyle out there - whether it be spell, heavy melee, or some bastardization of the two.
     
    Caci1, MajorMiner, KiliE2001 and 16 others like this.
  3. Sonoda Umi~

    Sonoda Umi~ Forget all your worries and just take my hand

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    ARCHER MASTER RACE!!!!!!!
     
  4. oinuk

    oinuk volcano spell :relaxed:

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    4 and 5 are definite yes

    mage is supposed to be a starter class which is easy to use, so it's boring for anyone past level 50

    meteors falling fast shouldn't be all levels, that would make it too strong early

    heal doing more to teammates i can see

    no new spell
    too much effort that could be fixing silent expanse bugs n shit
    ________________________________
    also ice snake is fine as it is
    ________________________________
    3 but ok
     
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  5. Sourpowerpete

    Sourpowerpete Well-Known Adventurer

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    1. Yes. Slow meteors are absolutely ass.
    2. Potions, imo, are too common for the games good. But I realize that people have come to rely on it, which is why I suggested making the mage substitute more appealing.
    3. Mage would have a much harder time stunlocking without ice snake and without being able to move.
    4. Teleport just doesn't cast half the time. "Move away from blocks"
    5. I guess we agree on keeping auto targeting, but it really needs to target better.
     
  6. Spenchilada

    Spenchilada Well-Known Adventurer

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    Mage only has 1 spell that does significant damage. While teleport and ice snake do damage, its not like they can be used as damage alternatives.
     
  7. hgbrd

    hgbrd the earth thunder water man HERO

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    according to the 1.19.1 patch, "At grade 3, Heal will only heal the caster by 12%-6%-6% of their max health instead of 20%-5%-5%. This does not change the healing done to other nearby players."
    in other words, heal is already more effective when used on other players.
     
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  8. Spenchilada

    Spenchilada Well-Known Adventurer

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    Mage as a substitute IS appealing already. Mages don't only consist of their heal. While they don't always heal as much as potions (they do 99% of the time), they're also an additional player. That means split aggro, more dps, and other boosts.
     
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  9. Sourpowerpete

    Sourpowerpete Well-Known Adventurer

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    Ah, my mistake.
     
  10. SchoolMeatloaf

    SchoolMeatloaf Well-Known Adventurer HERO

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    Would you rather get this message spammed? Or would you rather be teleported in blocks, stuck, resulting in you to do /kill again and again, raging, perhaps doing /kill mid quest and you don't know how to get back to where you were at etc etc.

    Honestly thank god they have that message in that game.
     
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  11. Sourpowerpete

    Sourpowerpete Well-Known Adventurer

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    Or you know, I'd like teleport to be more reliable without teleporting into blocks?
     
  12. SchoolMeatloaf

    SchoolMeatloaf Well-Known Adventurer HERO

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    Actually this would change mage alot. Low level fighting would be way to easy with this and heal.
    ________________________________
    Well you they can't really just make it more reliable at the same time not be teleporting into blocks. It's either you get teleported into blocks or you don't (don't, being the way it is now)

    If you think about it, in fact, it's super reliable now because I know 95% of the time I wouldn't be teleported into blocks, getting me to rage, /kill, quitting, etc.
     
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  13. Sourpowerpete

    Sourpowerpete Well-Known Adventurer

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    I can't take you seriously right now.
     
  14. CrazyDav3

    CrazyDav3 ą̶̡̡̢̩͎̬̟̳̦̦͆̈͗̽̋͘͠ VIP+

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    You should solo the 3rd phase of EO with mage. Its hard to autolock on wretches when everything else is on the screen
     
  15. Druser

    Druser ele defs don't matter HERO

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    I haven't had particular difficulty locking onto the wretch (though I have had difficulty getting close enough to dps through it, because mage has no great way to handle the minions).
     
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  16. Spenchilada

    Spenchilada Well-Known Adventurer

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    I present to you: MELEE MAGE
     
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  17. SchoolMeatloaf

    SchoolMeatloaf Well-Known Adventurer HERO

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    What? Why aren't you taking me serious? Did I say something that offended you?

    I dont know why you are "attacking" me out of everyone who's disagreeing with you. Which is literally everyone because you haven't had anyone agree with you.
     
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  18. TS_potato

    TS_potato Da bumping potato power VIP+

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    At least try to play mage properly before you make threads like this. Checked your stats and you have only one mage and it's level 31.
     
  19. AlexisPlay

    AlexisPlay I'm that one guy who is a guy. VIP+

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    If it can please you, I didn't take any of your answers seriously since everytime it's "no you're wrong because I'm right" with rarely a valuable argument. Few examples :
    (You just repeated your previous message here)
    Someone say Slow Meteor is normal, you just don't care.

    Please give more consideration in your answers when people are trying to debate seriously with you, because I'm actually impressed that there is still nobody who posted a shitpost about your first message, usually this forum is fast for that.
     
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  20. Bluescreen

    Bluescreen Running Wynndows 7.2.8712.

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    As someone who got mage to over 100 and has used it for years, here are my thoughts:

    1) NO. Meteor is already the one of the best damage spells in the game. It hits hard (can pretty easily reach 14k+ damage without crafted items or any buffs) and hits lots of enemies, and you barely have to aim it. If it were faster, or you could cast multiple, mage's dps would be way more than it should be. Mage's survivablity and mobility are both pretty absurd due to the best utility spell and the best movement spell in the game, and you want the DPS to be great too?

    2) It already does. Side note, heal is very very VERY ridiculous. The only way to kill a mage is to just hit them faster than they can recover, as in, deal 10k damage in .2 seconds. Otherwise they can just cast rrr-rlr-rlr-rrl, and they are already in way better shape and you are stunned.

    3) That mana regen spell makes no sense. Mana is only a problem if you play badly.
    With high int, you only really need 6/4 mana regen.
    Proof:
    You normally regen 1mana/1s as a base. Thus, with 6/4, you get 10mana/4sec.
    Assuming you cast something every second, and you never use consecutive spells (what mage is designed to do, more on that later) and your int makes meteor 3, then you will have to cast one cheaper spell (ice snake/heal) in the middle. You'd have to spam pretty hard to break even. And that's with a suboptimal build with somewhat low int. You can get meteor cost to 2 and other spells to 1.

    Furthermore, ice snake is way too vital in order to remove. Ice snake plays perfectly with the non-consecutive spell tactic mage is designed to do. You cast ice snake to stun an enemy, then meteor to hit them, the ice snake to stun them, meteor to hit, repeat. Heal can also be used in place of ice snake to make it harder to die.
    Ice snake is also good for stunning groups of enemies once you get the third tier. It works like this: You shake your view really quickly, making ice snake cover a large amount of horizontal area.

    4) Teleport only gives you the message if you are wall-hugging. You should not be wall-hugging. Other than that, teleport is the best movement spell in the game: It's instant, it moves you pretty far, and it stuns and damages anything you teleport through.

    5) I disagree, the auto-aim is vital and without it, mage could reasonably be called bad.

    I'd also like to add that shaman does, in fact, NOT beat mage in terms of support. You have to be near the totem to heal over time with shaman. Meanwhile, mage's heal is instant and heals more, and thus can save way more lives. Shaman's stuns throw around mobs like the gravity gun throws crates, and they get hard to hit, while mage's stuns simply lock the enemy in a place. Shaman's defence is 40% compared to mage's 80%, and as such mage can tank a lot more damage than shaman (even if it isn't that much) which is futher helped along by the fact that mage can rlr-rlr spam in an emergency to heal to max in as little as a few seconds, while shaman has to switch to a potion, or heal by totem. Furthermore, shaman is more of a DPS class than a support class, since shaman has obnoxious dps, if you haven't noticed already.

    Another thing: When you switch off a weapon to heal with a potion and back, it takes more time than you think. It means you pause your dps for a few seconds, and are unable to defend yourself with your weapon's knockback or movement spells. In order to be safe while healing, you have to move/run away and thus pause your dps for even longer. With mage, in a party, however, you can just move a bit closer to them to get a big heal. And mages can just rlr themselves. Furthermore, it takes 3 seconds to heal the full amount of the potion, while mage's biggest heal is instant. As such, mage's heal is better than even potions. Potions do have an use, because you don't always have a mage with you, though.

    Yet another thing: Mage is not boring, unless you play it in a boring way, such as by wallhugging and staying on the other side of the world from the thing you are trying to hit. Try other things! Teleport through enemies that are running/charging towards you. Circlestrafe around ranged mobs at close-range. Don't live in fear of mistakes, since you have all the tools to recover from your mistakes. Teleport to get away from the enemies, ice snake to stun them for a moment, and heal to fix yourself up.

    And your changes would make it more boring. You remove one of the more intresting spells (Ice snake, a slow-moving stunning spell you can control with your aim) for one that is only useful if you have a poor build and there are no ranged mobs focusing you, or more likely, you are behind a wall or wallhugging. And what would the meteor changes do? You can spam it more, thus making the more intresting non-consecutive spell tactic less viable. And removing autoaim would make it so that you pretty much never hit half your meteors, making the spell 200% more fustrating.

    TL:DR: Read everything above.
     
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