Guide Ranking Mythics Properly

The salt is real

 

it's not really salt I feel, more like

>Archangel is above cata

And he stated it disregarded levels iirc

I know cata's got some wacky severe negatives but that's a bit much

 

ye cata has 1.5x damage in a somewhat tanky build (10k hp, positive ele def, 40 def or so)
but grim/nirv has 1.5x mana (more like 1.75x for nirvana) in a tankier build (11k hp, positive ele def, 70 def or agi)

 

Look, you've gotta have at least weathered damage to count as above Cata. Defenses and AGI are great, but you're going to either spend (comparatively) forever fighting a boss and eventually prevail, or you're going to give up because you're using a level 69 weapon against a 100+ enemy. Like, the mythic is okay at its level. I said that about Arch and Az, but you're completely ignoring clearly how much more useful Cata is than you're giving it credit. Cata's not entirely useless when you are looking for damage. That's the point. But Arch is just a low level dagger that suffers when compared to level 90+ mythics. It's a similar phenomena to Manna. It's a great dagger, but it's not intended to have high damage, which means its usability above level 90 is more or less nonexistent.

 

i'm confused, don't all the mythic daggers (aside from arch of course, but you mentioned that separately) have greater than or equal to damage compared to weathered?

 

Exactly my point. If Archangel was going to be on par or better than Cata (like the other daggers) it'd at least need that damage without going full glass cannon.

 

Wait, so you’re saying that cata should be ranked higher than Arch?

 

Somewhat yes

there's other parts about the daggers that are questionable too but this was the major one

 

Technically, it already is. Cata is C and Arch is D+, but I see where you are coming from.

 

Two Cata-builds randomly slapped together with probably many room for improvement:
https://wynndata.tk/s/LBaxc0 15,6k Spins (and yes, the average damage is the most important one to look at, at least for PvB), 8 mana, can reach 104 intel (2 mana spins), ~10k health and 50 defense, 7k dps
https://wynndata.tk/s/yLmHr9 13,3k Spins, 7 mana, 50% mana reduction, ~10k health and up to 75 agility, 6k dps
And both will still work after the Cata-nerf. Yes, they are very expensive and in my opinion not worth their money, I would agree at this point: Cata is overrated, its price is far too high. But this doesn't make it bad, if a weapon can end up slightly under average tankiness but significantly above average damage compared to most other mythic weapons, why put it in C-rank?

 

You have good points. Would you say it belongs in B Tier or A- Tier or neither?

 

You're relying a lot on Medeis, Vaward, and Third Eye here. I don't deny, that's one of the best Cata builds I've seen post Hive nerf, but it's not nearly as attainable as the other mythics' builds. You've still got to at least average roll all or better all of the SP items (Vaward, Medi, Third Eye) AND only at Max roll Mana will you get 7/4. You're more than likely going to come 1 or more short on Mana or have no SP's leftover or both. Most people have a 22 to 27 Vaward (not including low rolls for the 3 primary SP's since I'm nice). If you're in the unfortunate bracket of the 22's, you'll need above average rolls for at least Third Eye and some if not all of Medeis to wear the build. Mana is still low here, but the Intel is decent. You don't need much more to prove your point, this is a great build, but it's still not equal to the others. Memetoes and Third Eye are good at inflating spell builds, but they don't make one alone. C+ to B- for effort.

 

Yes, it is very sp-tight, but I would say still doable. The main stats that matter are intel on third eye, dexterity and intel on medeis and intel, dexterity, defense and at least 5 strength on vaward, in which you cann only miss 5 points (or 3 at lvl 100) in total. I have seen Third Eyes with 19+ intel and 3+ mana on the market, the Medeis should also be relatively easy to get and while Vaward is probably the biggest problem, I wouldn't say its impossible, especially if you are able to spend 20+ stacks on a good Cata.
And that might be the crucial point: If the ranking goes more into the direction "What mythic should I get?" then yes, Cata is a very bad decision (maybe B or even C, if this is the only criteria), unless you are super rich. But personally, my understanding of such a ranking is more like "If I would somehow receive one mythic of choice, with which could I create the best build possible, without looking at the price (without becoming too unrealistic, like a 100sp Blue Mask)?". And in this case, I would definitely rank Cata as A. It may have some crucial weaknesses, but the damage without any further equipment is already compareable to other mythics with a full build, which means that you are able to completely concentrate on these weaknesses and get them to a point where they become average, while still keeping above average damage. I doubt that its realistic to reach offensive stats compareable to the first build with other mythic daggers without becoming completely glassy.
In addition, I would assume that Cata profits much more from the crafting system than other mythics, as you can specifically address its weaknesses with custom items, but lets see how it turns out, its still difficult to make assumptions at this point.

 

Have you seen the poll? I literally state: Should this matter to me?
Probably not
Unless you're New
ofc if you've got the LE and time to acquire enough items with high stats, then you're going to eventually make a great build. However, that could be said even about bad weapons. I spent 7 stacks alone on my Vampiric Plague Cancer (now Necrosis) build before it was fixed. It never had the ability to solo all of LI, but it came really close on multiple occassions. The thing is, Cata is in that boat: Good given exorbitant amounts of time and stacks of LE to build around in its entirety. Not all players can utilize the weapon to its fullest and if you'd been reading all of my other weapon reviews, that's been a consistent theme for why they aren't ranked higher:
Divzer: Even the most effective archers get hit once or twice, but using Divzer means there’s no chance of negating that damage. In short, only useful in a party where you aren’t being targeted. Few people have this mythic, and it doesn’t really have an audience for selling either.

Az: It will at least compare to same level legends, but for the price tag and rarity, getting the same performance as items at a fraction of the cost is simply not worth it. For that reason alone I can comfortably give this bow a discard whenever possible rank, but I’m not done yet. This bow has been getting changes, buffs, nerfs, and powder slot increases to make use of the fire and water stats and incentivize players to use it. I would be shocked if there weren’t more changes on the way for Az. Okay I think I’m done throwing shade at Az today.

Nirvana: Without the backbone of easy access HP items, Nirvana builds could see base HP as low as Cata or Strati builds even at best. I don't expect many players to be in search of this item due to this poor recommendation, but there are still many Nirvana sellers on the market if you're interested.

I am very consistent in my ranking with items of C or below. Theme: Same or below performance given the best builds is not sustainable and therefore constitutes a worse weapon of choice for anyone that cares about their wallet to performance and/or time to performance when making purchases.

That situation is unrealistic itself, therefore argument invalid. We're not in hypotheticals here. These are ranks based on tangible builds. The intangible is redundant.

You've read my mind. I alluded to this already on the Patch Notes thread, but I'm predicting that builds will dramatically shift now that players can make items of their own that can directly patch problems in their builds without being too hard to get. If rare ingredients aren't mythic levels of hard to get, then custom items will be extremely valuable for building with previously unfavorable items IMO. That's just my hypothetical+opinion, but again, I'm ranking based off current uses.

________________________________

Also:

No one told me ;(
*F*

 

The situation may be unrealisitc, but this doesn't make a ranking based on pure strength redundant, not less than a ranking purely based on market value, theming or fun to play. In fact, all possible rankings are hypothetical because in the end people will prefer different mythics for different reasons which are very subjective. A ranking can only focus on a single or small amount of aspects.
And yes, a ranking based on pure strength is even less practical than one based on the question "which mythic should I get", but like I said, it doesn't become redundant as of this.

Again, this is just a question of which criterias to choose when ranking mythics, which wasn't clear in the original thread. Yes, its quite obvious that you rank them based on their strength and their situation on the market, but not that these are in fact only criterias for the main question, which mythic to buy. They could as well have been seperate criterias, with different weighting.
In case of Cata: If you look at it from the perspective "Should I buy it", then yes, its bad. But if you look at the strength (which is great) and its market situation (too expensive) seperately, then you might come to the conclusion, that it is overall an outstanding weapon with a drawback, so overall somewhere in the middle because the price, while putting Cata in a bad spot in a buying-guide (where the price is probably the main factor for deciding), doesn't matter as much in a hypothetical strength-comparison where the price is more of a side note. Now that you explained it further, I can see that this is a buying-guide rather than mainly a strength-comparison, but you can't really recognize it from the original thread.

 

Noted. I'll update the thread with additional ranking information and a clearer legend before I make the next list of ranks for spears. It will probably be a week or more though. Finals are fun.

 

fuckin kill me

 

Soon^tm amirite?

 

only just saw this post recently, so i figured i'd give some of my thoughts on it

Kind of a poor way to rate mythics, just look at Gma/Freedom/Grimtrap/Apoc/Lament prices, better to stick with versatility, and that other point you have.

it doesn't make sense in general, comparing even the same category of mythics is... not accruate and bad

every mythic does this... it's one of the points of mythics

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I agree with most of the boots, although I wouldnt put boreal in A at all, B+ at best, its hard to make work

(S Rank Reasoning)

you forgot the fact that this item has a 30 req in all elements which is stupidly low for rainbow item that's this good, isn't impacted by morph changes at all, and has ws. I tested Freedom on the GM server, and was easily able to get 129int/100agi with mediocre rolls. To add, this was also 7/8 morph + capricorn.

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lol

(S Rank Reasoning)

cata does this, almost more than every other mythic

(now 130)
lower than spring & lower than freedom, don't really see the main point here.

clockwork/leo

also ties back to

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Ws matters on gma too, and the -hpr isn't very significant on the item as rage exists, so having the -hpr helps a ton. It only really matters if its really bad. tbh gma is more on the A+ side of things.

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kinda agree with the rating, glad you can actually realise this item is good.

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overall, rating mythics is bad in itself, but cool idea i suppose and it's hard to rate mythics when you've only used.. one (1)

hope you review the rest so i can talk about those ratings too

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Tier list some of us made a while ago

Mythic Tier List:
S: Strati | Cata | Freedom
A: Weathered | Spring | Fatal | Lament | Grandmother | Gaia | Grimtrap | Apocalypse | Thrundacrack | Idol | Nirvana
B: Hero | Inferno | Nullification | Galleon | Ignis | Collapse | Warchief | Slayer | Alkatraz | Guardian | Monster
C: Divzer | Warp | Crusade | Boreal | Discoverer | Singularity
D: Pure | Az | Archangel

 

Man, I wanted to overhaul the thread and fix my ranking wordings. I agree with your first statement too. Ranking mythics this way is hard; even when trying to narrow down categories and make an any-player friendly thread. As many pointed out, late game players can tend to make anything work, but there as some mythics that stand out for various reasons that different people prioritize. I am trying to cater to any audience while being as objective as possible. That's my forte; being blunt and annoying af. That still doesn't make this easy. I think this thread, and all the others like it prove that mythics are the worst part of wynncraft right now... except CSST maybe... and morph... okay there's a few more too, but mythics are difficult. I like being able to hear from so many people and work to craft the true rankings of the items, so I'm gonna finish reading your post later (yes I read basically 2 lines and then responded, don't hit me) /setskill sneak 100