Pvp Was Slain By 1.9

Lots of words that I can't be bothered to read but just saying, 1.9 isn't finalised. PvP sucks in 1.9 now but they're still rebalancing everything.

 

Sure it may be slow, but it'll be more interesting, rather than pre-1.9 where swinging a sword around like a crazy ass motherf*cker got you kills. And with shields and the new arrows, PvP will be more interesting, with perhaps teams coming out with strategic battle plans, instead of everyone rushing in. The strategic battle possibilities are amazing, with slow attackers that play defensively and do most of the damage, with fast-ass crazed people running in for solely knocking enemies back into the attackers, with rangers in the back aiming potion arrows to assist their allies or harm their enemies. Instead of everybody running it, it encourages strategy and using your head.

 

Here's the problem. No one asked for Mojang to completely change a big aspect of their game. With the new sword/axe cooldown, attacking with that may be too slow. So, naturally people will turn to the thing that doesn't have a cooldown: Bows.

This is where Problem #2 arises. Shields don't just weaken arrows, they completely nullify them. If an arrow collides with a shield, it does 0 damage. People usually would try to attack a faster weapon, like a sword or an axe. However, Mojang was too smart for that 99% of the community. So they made a bow faster and more efficient than melee weapons if you want to smash a Shield.

So, Oddish, how does one break a shield? Well, I tested it. Using a Redstone Clock-Powered dispenser, my shield broke in 47 hits. 47 hits. Assuming every hit lands, it's gonna take you nearly an entire stack of arrows to get rid of just one shield. This means that if someone has more than one shield, it's gonna take a LOT of arrows.

But Oddish! Dispensers aren't people! A normal bow shot can break a shield faster, right?! Well, I agree. Unfortunately, I'm lonely... So, I tested this theory on the next best thing: Skeletons. Good News: Shields break faster when a Skelly fires the shot. Bad News: It still takes 39 arrows to break a shield, again, assuming every one hits its mark. So, how are we going to get damage on a shield bearing player, now? A player would probably turn to Potions. Potion Tipped Arrows, Splash Potions, and Lingering Potions. Time to remove these from the equation.

At the moment, I can't talk about Arrows because they can only be obtained via the Creative Menu for the time being. That leaves us Splash Potions and Lingering Potions. Here's our problem. Splash Potions are time consuming, expensive, and honestly not strong enough combat wise to be effective in a fight. You know what is though? Lingering Potions! Those leave a lasting area of effect, so a player can run through that and suddenly become, say, poisoned! Don't worry, hopefuls, Mojang screwed you over AGAIN! Wanna know how to make one of these beauties? It's simple! Take a Splash Potion of the desired effect and add in one simple substance. Dragon's Breath. Dragon's Breath! DRAGON'S BREATH!!! YOU NEED TO FIGHT THE ENDERDRAGON TO GET LINGERING POTIONS!!!

In conclusion, the old PvP system wasn't necessarily a good one, but it worked and was well liked by millions of Minecraft's players. By implementing the new Combat System, melee weapons are pretty much rendered useless. Turning to bows was thwarted by the addition of the shield, and the only counter to the shield, the potion, is too expensive to even consider unless you're incredibly rich, or a kit supplies you with one. Basically, nerf shields and the new Combat System may not be terrible.

 

Why all the 1.9 hate? Doesn't anyone realize that literally all the new features can be disabled? Servers can make plugins, or even commands, that get rid of the attack cool down.

 

The problem is, the biggest and most game changing effect, the attack cooldowns, is enabled by DEFAULT without a simple way to disable it.

1. What if the owner of a server likes it, but everyone else doesn't? They can't change it can they? What if they have donated to the server or spend a massive time playing on it, only to have a change occur that they can't disable, and would never have made the effort otherwise?
2. Just because you can disable it, doesn't mean that it won't get in the way the first few times before you turn it off. This could lead to permanent effects that never would've happened if it wasn't enabled in the first place.
3. How many people do you know who can use /give @p [ItemName] 1 0 {AttributeModifiers:[{AttributeName:"generic.attackSpeed",Name:"generic.attackSpeed",Amount:11,Operation:0,UUIDLeast:1,UUIDMost:1}]}
(Or however you actually do it, even I don't bother writing it correctly)
4. Disabling attack cooldowns can be considered cheating to some people, or they might have worlds that have commands turned off!
5. You would have to change the generic.attackSpeed attribute of EVERY weapon and tool you make.
6. Even though this is enabled by default, the ability to spam click is enabled too! How are people even meant to know this has such a massive impact on gameplay if monsters behave exactly the same way whether you wait to attack or not?
7. What if for example, they add a change which makes all monsters do 50 hearts of damage each hit? "But you can change it with generic.attackDamage, so it's alright!" Would you agree to this change as well?



Basically, they should make it so if people WANT the cooldowns, they can enable it for themselves, not just shove it in our faces then say "Well it's optional as long as you learn to use coding terms or plugins that aren't even made by us."

 

I think they should just add the ability to rework enchants/cooldowns in plugins/mods, and fix the hitboxes in the update instead

 

1: their server, their rules. I know that sounds harsh, but it's true. And if you donated, well, I'm sorry to see you donated to something that isn't guaranteed to last.

2: wat

3: I guarantee their will be people who make one-commands to scan your hot bar and constantly get rid of the attribute.

4: cheating? They can only do it if they have op rights, and if you don't enable cheats, that's your own fault. Heck, you can even open to LAN to turn on cheats temporarily. On a hardcore world? It's kinda got hard in the name....

5: see reply for 3

6: I'm not sure what you mean, but I'll take a guess. Spam clicking still exists, but it just won't do anything really. Mobs still attack the same? Someone could make them weaker with commands.

7: but they won't.

 

1. Sure it's harsh, but the server you donate to will eventually shut down anyway. If Mojang does such a massive change and you lose interest, then the update is basically shutting the server down early for people.

2. I'll attempt to let you understand this one. If you update and you don't like it, before you realize that you can disable it some bad things could happen to your world/server you play on. Causing something that never would've happened if you simply didn't update.
Example: You die to a monster that you previously could've handled, but because your attacks are weaker and slower you lose all your stuff, and you can't get it back within the 5 minutes time limit because you're too weak/slow to fight the monsters that guard your items.

3. Mojang shouldn't rely on other people to disable features that they add, but people don't like.

4. My point is, some people actually want to play the game without having to feel like they're playing dirty by using cheats.
And what if they were playing easy mode, and it's still too hard for them? Do you just expect them to cheat?

5. See reply 3.

6. Yes, spam clicking won't do much damage, but people won't know that! Anything you hit will still flash red and be knocked back a bit, regardless of spam clicking or not. The brown hearts doesn't help much, because if people don't know why it takes 50 hits to kill a zombie instead of 4, they probably won't know why random brown hearts fly off it too. The only thing that can currently help is the Damage Indicator mod. (And similar mods)
Also see reply 3.

7. How do you know that? They've already made weapons weaker and slower, so what's stopping them making mobs stronger and faster?
They already made skeletons move away from you if you get too close or run to you if you get too far, while firing at you at the same time.

 

1: Well, technically donating is a violation of the EULA anyway, regardless that they don't enforce it

2: that's what backups are for

3: it's their game; and if they don't like the way a feature works, they have every right to change it. Sure some people don't like it, but since when has there been ANY change with this many people that everyone agreed on in the history of the earth?

4: it's not cheating if they are simply changing a feature they don't like in a SANDBOX game

5: some people actually like 1.9 you know. On the minecraft forum, someone made a poll, and the vast majority said they liked the combat changes.

6: that's what wikis are for; learning how to play the game instead of jumping in and blindly stumbling along, not knowing how to play.

7: I said they wouldn't make them do 50 hearts. I never said they wouldn't make them stronger. And so what if they do? Sprinting is still a thing, so you can avoid mobs in the first place, and shields protect from skeletons entirely

 

1. Donations are not a violation of the EULA. The EULA prevents paying money or donating money for perks that give advantages in the game over non-paying players. If you get nothing or cosmetics, then it's legal.

2. Not everyone knows how to do a backup, or what a backup even is. Some people probably don't even know what a C: Drive is.
Plus, people might not think to backup because they might not know that this has such an impact until it's too late.

3. It is their game, but it doesn't mean that they should rely on the playerbase to externally modify the game to make people like it, especially when they make additional things that people have to modify to make the game likable.

4. For some people, it is cheating. They don't want to cheat, period. They want to play a game about surviving against monsters. But if this update makes it so hard for them that they need to cheat, then what does it say about the update?
"The Update that Changed the World". If it stays like this then it'll become "The Update that Forced People to Cheat so They Can Play How They Liked It"

6. Is there any way to know the wiki exists if you just bought the game? I searched the launcher, the official site where you get it and even in the game. Unless a link is hidden away somewhere where I didn't see, there is no way to know that the wiki exists unless you search for answers to problems that you "blindly" run into.
Regardless, the issue of both PvP types being enabled are still there, whether you wiki it or not.

7. Once again, how do you know they won't make a change like that? For all we know, they could've already made mobs do 50 hearts each hit for the next snapshot. "And so what if they do?" You'll only die in 1 shot if you get ambushed, no big deal! You could've easily looked into the future to see where the mob was and "sprinted" away from where it was going to go, it was so simple to "avoid the mob in the first place!" And luckily shields protect you only from the front against skeletons, because we all know 50 heart/hit skeletons only attack from the front.


At least spam clicking was an equalizer for some combat issues where the player couldn't control.

Got a computer with low FPS? It didn't matter much if you missed half your attacks due to slow reactions, as long as you hit at least once every 0.5 seconds, you were fine.
Got a client that is far away from a server, causing high ping? It didn't matter (as much) if you needed to be on time with combat, because blocking sucked.
Need to deal with a group of unfair teamers? Just hit them all at once if you're accurate and fast enough. Sure you might still die but at least you did more damage to them then they did to you.


Here's a tactic that I made that adds some "Strategy" (If you would call it that, it's more like a complete annihilation) to 1.9 combat. I call it the Unnecessary Armour Penetration Mechanic.

What you need: A stone, iron or diamond axe. A Power 5 bow. 1-2 Arrows.
Good for fighting: Diamond Armour with Shield

Step 1. When your enemy raises their shield, sprint at them and hit them with your axe, doing 4.5 hearts of damage, which reduces their armour from 66% resistance to 51.15%, the attack then does 2.19825 hearts, then reduced by 66% from the shield to 0.73275 hearts.
Step 2: Charge up your bow and shoot them, doing 12.5 hearts, which reduces their armour from 66% to 24.75%, the attack then does 9.40625 hearts of damage.

Add up the damage. 0.73275 + 9.40625 = 10.139 hearts
Congratulations! You killed someone who had diamond armour and a shield in 2 hits!
Step 3 (Optional): If they didn't die from the first arrow, a second one definitely will do the job.

If someone was killed by this strategy, do you think he would be going "Nice strategy man, you're good at this game!" Or would he be thinking that it was completely unfair?

 

1: sorry, I forgot about that, but my argument still stands: if you're gonna spend your money, do it on something that won't eventually die out or change. And like I said, the server belongs to the owner. If they like the changes, that's unfortunate, but you still have no right to complain over their choice.

2:

3: Some people actually like the combat changes, and if they don't like how something in the game works, they have every right to change it. It's not like players quitting will lose money, so you won't be missed

4: you only have to cheat if you have no skill. And that's their problem if they don't like putting in a simple thing to disable a feature they don't like.

6: is there anyway to even know how to craft without the wiki? I don't think so. Eventually, people will look it up.

7: I know they won't make them do more damage because 50 hearts is ridiculous. The most they are probably gonna do from here on out is have them spawn with weapons more commonly. But, luckily, the energy meter is an attribute of the weapon itself, so they would most likely be slowed as well. And besides, in 1.8, unless you're a noob, or just not being careful, how many times do you die to mobs anyway? They're way too easy. Just pillar up and wait for them to burn. Creeper in the way, waiting for you at the bottom? Just sprint jump away, the explosion will barely reach you.


I hope you realize they got rid of armor degeneration a couple snapshots ago....

________________________________

Oh yeah, and one other thing; Mojang even SAID that all of the changes have yet to be balanced. It's only snapshots. They're still being worked on. Just like any mod when it first comes out: they add a new feature, it's usually unbalanced at first, then balance it accordingly, or add new items

 

1. Living things die, buildings crumble, mountains get blown away in the wind, stars fade. Everything will eventually die out or change with time, so saying "spend money on something that won't eventually die out or change" is like saying don't spend at all. Because nothing that we can put effort into will stay forever.
And even if someone has already given the server their money, that person could choose to not give them even more money, or to tell friends and other players with similar interests to not give their money to that server, hurting the server in the long run.

3. Umm, where are you going? We were talking about Mojang and them relying on player additions, not what they actually added.
While the players quitting won't lose money, the servers will! Less players liking the game means less players in general.
Less players means less donation opportunities for servers, which means less money for servers, which reduces server quality. Less quality on server features that enhance gameplay will mean a more boring game for multiplayer overall.

4. Some people actually HAVE no skill. Or barely enough to survive encounters. I've seen people die to a 1.8 spider on easy mode! Spiders have the lowest health, the lowest attack and the fattest hitbox of all the naturally spawning overworld mobs. Forcing them to cheat because the skill requirement went up will just make them quit the game. That also relates to #3's second part.
So it's my problem and my fault if I don't use this "simple" command?
/give @p [ItemName] 1 0 {AttributeModifiers:[{AttributeName:"generic.attackSpeed",Name:"generic.attackSpeed",Amount:11,Operation:0,UUIDLeast:1,UUIDMost:1}]}
I don't know about you, but I don't completely understand that command myself.

6. There is a pathetic way in the game to teach you crafting already, the achievements. But they are quite vague, and so yes, they might look for a solution to that.
But if they were so new to the game that they needed to learn crafting recipes, do you think they would look up the effects of weapon swinging? They might not even realize there is an alternative method to kill mobs other then hit them 50 times. They might just think that this is how the game is meant to be. And if it relates to #4 where they have low skill, then they might just think "Too hard" and quit the game.

7.

50 hearts may seem ridiculous, but it's just a ridiculous example for what they could do in the future.
It is still entirely possible, because as you said:

You said that they are allowed to do whatever they want. So if you're saying they won't do that, you'll just be arguing with yourself.
And remember, they've previously changed strength potions from 1.5 hearts bonus damage to 130% bonus damage! This allowed you to do up to 10.4 extra hearts using a diamond sword and strength 2. Sure they are returning it to what it was, but it took them ages to change it back to something reasonable. There is no way to tell that they won't do it again.

I know Armour Degeneration was already removed, but I'm using Armour Piercing. The mechanic of bypassing armour with higher damage.
http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/1.9#Items_2
It says: • Armor points count for less as the attack strength increases: each 2 () done by the attack reduces the effective defense points by 1 ().

Since the armour piercing still exists, my scenario is still valid.

Since you have technically argued against yourself, you have lost my respect of your thoughts and opinion on this subject.
This discussion ends here.

 

Sorry, I'm my gonna go that easily. And you know, why has this turned into a flame war? I've refrained from direct insults so far, and what do you do? You practically insult my intelligence. You're a sad example for a human being if you have to insult someone just because you're so addicted to a certain way of fighting IN A GAME, and try disagree. Now, onto my replies....

1: you know what I mean.

3: barely. Their will still be plenty of people who play, and a host of new people who have been waiting for the demise of spam click pvp

4: if they have no skill, then they should practice. If they can't even beat a spider, they shouldn't even go out at night. If one is careful, mobs can be avoided. Either that, or the nubs can play on peaceful. And I never said I know how to make that command. What I DID say was that someone would undoubtedly make one of those one-command things that changes all the items in your hotbar to have no cool down. Get your facts straight nub

6: when they go to learn how to make a sword on the wiki, once 1.9 comes out, there will undoubtedly be a link referencing attack cool down

7: I believe you are mistaken on the armor thing. The armor piercing effect isn't permanent; its only for that attack.

Im tired of this conversation and you. Can a mod plz close this thread? This is getting out of hand. @Acer