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Problems With Mythics

Discussion in 'Wynncraft' started by cara, Feb 12, 2018.

?

yes

  1. unsure

    16 vote(s)
    30.8%
  2. yes

    36 vote(s)
    69.2%
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  1. cara

    cara umu spam VIP+

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    most resellers probably hate me already so i have nothing left to lose

    first and foremost obviously we have the fact that reselling is horrifyingly prevalent in the market
    obviously reselling for a short while is fine because of the annoying fact that relevance in the market is mostly luck based and you'll need to resell if you plan on getting that mythic you want some time within the next 20 years
    but then you have the people reselling who scam, and those who literally instantly reselling their bought mythics for 1 stack above what they bought it for; i would name some examples but that's public shaming
    which brings me to the main point here - mythic scamming is basically unpunishable
    scammed someone? literally just say you didn't know prices because you didn't have a pricechecker and it'll be passed off as 'seller's regret'

    the next problem is the mythic drop chance itself, resulting in hard working and dedicated players not being rewarded at all (i'm not including myself in this) and clueless 2k chesters having 4 mythics with an instant gigantic headstart; i believe there exists a case of someone with 20k chests not having found a single mythic which i find disturbing.

    then we have the problem of rerolls, the main problem being that reroll costs are so astronomically high your dreams are crushed if you get a mythic with bad rolls because you only have 4 chances at getting good IDs on a 7 in a million item (3/4s Mana Regen - 6%)

    suggestions then? reluctant to think of any because this would be moved to Suggestions where it would rot amongst the various mythic item suggestions that will never be accepted, but one viable option is definitely fixing a set IB price for mythics, agreed on by the CT or something - prevents scamming of newer players. this won't 'kill the mythic market' at all, good rolls will definitely sell for much more than what the IB would pay
    clarification: IB price can't be high at all, it has to be on the lower end of the 'average item' price spectrum

    mythic reroll costs decrease? token system where you find tokens in high tier chests and redeem mass amounts for a random mythic? idk, please leave your opinion below and don't flame me thanks




    edit: after a reminder i'm adding the next section to the post - the part regarding loot exclusives
    there is NO REASON any item should be loot exclusive at all. lootrunning offers such a huge advantage over grinding it's actually sad, you don't need an added incentive just to lootrun, and most of the time said 'added incentive' just clogs up all your chests because of the higher spawn rate. How is this related to mythics? the answer, quick and simple - Warchief.
    Warchief is in no way a bad mythic, it's just that it's so common its price is so hideously low, completely devaluing it and tossing the idea of 'wow rare item' into the trash can. I dislike the concept of 'loot exclusives' so much mainly because of Warchief - not because I've found one myself, but also because everyone else is finding them instead of actually rare mythics. Especially considering that you have an increased chance of finding a Warchief instead of a mythic weapon because the former is a loot exclusive.

    suggestion? stop loot exclusives from having an increased spawn rate in chests
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
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  2. T-Flex

    T-Flex At the gym HERO

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    1) Scamming via selling mythics.

    Can you elaborate please? Cause selling mythics for 1 stack higher isn't a scam. It's called free market. You cannot put exact price on something and expect people to follow it. Prices will always fluctuate, and if someone is willing to pay more or receive less, that is their right. Also, people need to stop taking price checking so seriously and literally. Items were price wrongly many times. Basing scam accusations on price check threads is ludicrous.

    2) The mythic drop chance

    I agree with that point. I was always against luck being so heavily rewarded, especially in an RPG game that should be mostly about skill. As in IM member, I can't promise anything, but even if we can't touch the mythics drop rate, we could potentially make items that could compete with mythics to a certain extent. Said items would probably be obtainable as boss drops, maybe something similar to wybel altar. That's just how I see it and think about it, don't take my word for it.

    3)Rerolling
    No comment really

    Is anything going to be done about things you listed, I don't know, but considering how many positive changes happened in recent past, I am optimistic about it.
     
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  3. cara

    cara umu spam VIP+

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    overpricing by 1 stack is generally frowned upon but the main problem I was referring to is people buying mythics off new players for hideously low prices - for example, I've heard of a godly hero selling for 3.3 stacks, and one of my friends unknowingly sold his warchief for 1.5 stacks off market price
     
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  4. T-Flex

    T-Flex At the gym HERO

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    Frowned up is not a valid argument. No one has right to tell me how to sell my items. We don't necessarily need to value same items equally. If I am in a hurry, I can sell my items for way less. If I appreciate certain items more, I have right to sell it for higher price, you don't have to buy it, but your opinion on the price is highly irrelevant. It may take longer to sell it, but that's on me.

    If people don't know "correct" prices, then by itself, that's their problem, it's their lack of knowledge who is causing them problems. Trying to inform and protect everyone who lack said knowledge is impossible and tedious, nor we should do that. Instead, they should inform themselves and make logical conclusions. If they are not able to do that, oh well, it's a lesson learned. I understand it's a dick move, I understand it's morally and ethically wrong, but it's not against the rules. If item is worth 3 stacks, but sold for 1.5, it's debatable if that was a scam or not, and comes down to subjective interpretation.

    I understand when staff doesn't want others to sell ovepriced items, to protect buyers, but this situation isn't it.

    What's super hypocritical to me, is the fact no one is going to complain about certain items selling for less, but as soon as someone increases the price, people go batshit crazy.

    Just to be clear, I don't trade with mythics, or at all for that matter. I don't like when situations like this happen, but spending time on figuring who is "scamming" who isn't productive, especially since labeling it as scamming isn't that easy.
     
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  5. cara

    cara umu spam VIP+

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    sometimes you see gross overprices despite common acknowledgement of the actual realistic value, which is what I dislike
    oftentimes scam victims are misinformed by scammers or inexperienced pricers. the rules state that scamming is illegal, but as you said, the problem here is that scamming is subjective; generally though, when 3 or more experienced and well known pricecheckers agree on a price, that should be the 'accurate' price of an item - buying an item for 1 stack or more underneath that 'set' price is considered scamming by most
    I'm greatly annoyed by this too, and I'll add a section on this when I get the chance (planning to talk about loot exclusive mythics as well.) Most current mythic prices do nothing to accurately represent their utility, rather, a large number are based on old prices, from when mythics were either completely overpowered or absolutely useless. You see Strati and Warp going for 20+ stacks - weapons with walkspeed at the cost of almost all of your survivability - yet you see weapons like Monster - with both incredible survivability and damage output - going for 6-8, while Hero and Inferno, both amazing weapons, having low prices of 4-6 stacks.
    i would really really love to fix this problem, but as I'm not an overly wealthy player, I can't really make a difference - resellers will be too stubborn on earning money to acknowledge that prices don't reflect utility at all, and that realistically, their items should be worth much less.
     
  6. LTMS

    LTMS Ninja Water Frog

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    1) There are no rules against this, and there is no point in introducing such rules. In a normal offer-demand-based market this is perfectly fine AND not considered scamming (an example is a classic stock market, where people can buy shares and sell them immediatly later for an higher price), so there is no point to rant about this.

    2) RNG-Based Systems. Useless to talk about this, since that's exactly how an RNG-Based System works.

    3)Same as above.
     
  7. T-Flex

    T-Flex At the gym HERO

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    There is also something as too much RNG, which is exactly what mythics are.
    The fact that you can change being poor to extremely wealthy without required skill within a single drop is crazy.
    Also, RNG, after a while becomes a statistical chance, except when it comes to mythics.
     
  8. LTMS

    LTMS Ninja Water Frog

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    Statistical chance is a probability of something to happen, which is still based on RNG. Even if there is a 99.9% of something to happen, I could hit that 0.1% forever, doesn't matter how many times I try. That's the base of RNG. You can't change that.
     
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  9. dukioooo

    dukioooo Creator of WynnData HERO

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    Another problem is that loot chests loot should actually be random to be fair, but wynn lootchests are "rigged" in the sense that the items you find are influenced by your class (mage->wands, archer->bows etc) and also, as a lot of lootrunners noticed in the Sitis updated, for some reason Sitis was extremily easy to find, even lootrunning with a mage I used to find 4 in a single lootrun...... so something was off there.
     
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  10. Khaps

    Khaps Ex-moderator and leader of the Mythic Emporium HERO

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    Not everyone finds a mythic per day :p
    yep that happens
    It is
    As long as the seller has enough proof, the sale can be rolled back from what I know, if mods know that you have enough knowledge to know that a strati isn't worth 1 stax you get banned for scamming...
    Ya, but that would require reworking every item drops, since dropping a legendary is pretty much the same as dropping a mythic, except its rarer (I'm not advantaging myself by saying that, never found a mythic)
    Same as above, that would require changing the whole system, and you don't want to give 99 rerolls :/
    I mean, I don't have any idea if that would work at all, but i'm going to take it from my point of view.
    What are the thing I still like to do :
    - Help new players
    - Manage the Mythic Emporium
    - Buy mythics, use them for a while and sell them
    Making IB useful would definitevely decrease the amount of trade on the mythic market, thus, I cannot be objective on this one...
    Don't feel like its a great idea, [4] or [5] (if ur crazy) is already a nice amount of rerolls, decreasing the prices again wouldn't be a great idea imo, mythics are already pretty overpowered, so if every mythics is godly.. urg :/
    Do you mean 1 in every chest? Wouldn't that mean that it would be predictable when you'll get a mythic? One sometimes would just be the same as for mythics from what I know..? Are those tokens like 92-96 96-100 or just normal ones? Cause I'd hate it to fall on a Pure when I could've gotten a Strati!
    I'm not counting too, the few interactions I've gotten with you via PM were nice, but I must say I totally disagree on your way of handling stuff and trashtalking everyone... I do like the fact that you are not going to post any names... I mean your post would probably have been deleted if you did so but watever...

    Anyways, I probably didn't understand correctly everything that you said, or missed some game mechanics, so feel free to explain to me what I got wrong :D
     
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  11. T-Flex

    T-Flex At the gym HERO

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    Whenever people use this argument it's always them using extreme examples trying to justify their argument.
    Saying you'd be hitting 0.1% forever is the same as saying you can find mythic in every chest, every time. Hypothetically, it's possible, but it's not going to happen. You can't throw numbers around and totally ignore how it actually plays out in the game.
    Also to point out, if you actually are hitting 0.1% forever, then that's not RNG anymore, it's a set value, RNGs don't work like that. If you have infinite amount of chances, then you'd hit 99.9% and 0.1% infinite amount of times.
     
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  12. NicBOMB

    NicBOMB Maker of Builds | Lurks on Forums | 1 Mythic Found HERO

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    This is not scamming. Selling or buying from an uninformed player for a grossly low price or selling for way too much to an uninformed player is scamming. Reselling your Mythics for more money is a part of how the free market works. No one likes not being able to themselves. This is most wynncraft players' problems, not just yours. Once you get a mythic or another player gets a mythic, make sure to link them to the mythic prices page or send it to another player that knows it's full market price.
     
  13. cara

    cara umu spam VIP+

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    >note I was listing those as two separate examples, I don’t consider reselling for slightly above market price to be scamming
    From what I’ve seen, rollback cases are extremely rare, and I’m talking about Mythic rarity.
    I do believe mythic drop rate can be changed without influencing legendary drop rates, but it isn’t the cleanest solution.
    Obviously we don’t want rerolls to be too cheap, but considering the price shoots up to nearly a whole inventory for your 6th try, I’d say it’s pretty high rn. 3x previous roll price sounds about right instead of 5. I acknowledge that we don’t want the value of mythics to drop, so the reroll cost has to be high, but not too high such that people can waste an entire 5 stacks rerolling (not to mention even going to [5] is extremely risky if you’re going for profit) and still end up with terrible IDs.

    For the token case, I was thinking that yeah, the mythic would be completely random, if the CT is willing to balance low level mythics - I strongly dislike the idea that a 7 in a million item has to be balanced for its level. Basically a ripoff and leaves a sour taste in your mouth knowing your luck was wasted. If they don’t, it’s kind of hard to see a system where 4 mythics are just completely omitted from a mythic gacha.
    ________________________________
    making two posts because mobile doesn’t like me editing - the IB suggestion in this case has to be underpricing the items by a large amount. Mostly this should be a last resort to get quick cash for your really bad mythics people are reluctant to buy.
    I’m definitely trying to prevent flaming here because the problems here are community problems rather than personal beef.
    I do hbelieve loot exclusives are easier to find than no loot exclusives, although they can be only found in T3+ chests most of the time, with a few (glitched?) exceptions like Physalis: Planning to make a paragraph on this later.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
  14. cara

    cara umu spam VIP+

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    added the part about loot exclusives - constructive criticism will be taken into consideration and eventually i'll make a suggestions thread
     
  15. McDerp123

    McDerp123 I ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) people VIP

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    The part i mostly agree on, welp, tbh I thought of wynn as being repetative due to mythics...

    Its chances is just too unfair for the fact where it takes you over a year or none to get one, and another problem is; mythics are also turning repetative due to the fact where some of them are starting to be like legendary tiered items, the mythic chances does deserve a rework, atleast something that isnt similar to grinding *COUGH* loot runs *COUGH* and grinding itself
     
  16. Dr Zed

    Dr Zed Famous Adventurer HERO

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    T-Flex said earlier, there isn’t anything wrong with people reselling mythics, and unless if they sell it at over 100% of the original price, it’s their and the buyer’s right to exchange at that price.

    I disagree with you most about the drop rate. While I do agree it is a bit too low for the drop chance, that by no means indicates that hard working people can’t get a mythic. I know a player named Putrid that puts endless amounts of time into the game and he has about 24 mythics. No one likes praying to RNGesus, and the CT could have definitely done mythics differently, but I don’t think there’s anything that could be done now. A lot of the mythics were rebalanced, and you don’t need a mythic to do fine in the game, so gameplay wise it doesn’t affect it that much.

    For loot exclusives, I really don’t see what’s the problem with it. In the first part of your argument you say mythics are too rare bc hard working people can’t get them, but then you go and complain about Warchief is not rare enough. Loot bonus is balanced, and affects both grinding and loot chests. Why should it matter really where the item comes from at this point? You are both playing the game. And don’t say that loot chest running doesn’t require any skill or effort put into it. PvE is so easy and repetitive that there isn’t much of a difference, and loot chests require the player to explore, and some even have puzzles.

    I’ve noticed a lot that people want to to tell others how to play the game, whether it be loot chest running, selling items, or using hive/rainbow builds. While balance should always be considered, there is a fine line between abusing bugs and playing the game in a different way.
     
  17. At World's End

    At World's End Infamous Adventurer HERO

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    One does not simply complain about mythics, when they do not own them.
     
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  18. HIGHBREAD

    HIGHBREAD earth thunder water man HERO

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    we complain about mythics because of the fact that its nearly impossible to get them
     
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  19. PikaPrince

    PikaPrince Something's Still not Quite Right... HERO

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    You earn them... i got mythics at level 42, guys please learn to trade instead of begging for money.
     
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  20. HIGHBREAD

    HIGHBREAD earth thunder water man HERO

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    how did you even do that
    i have 2 lvl 100s and still dont have a mythic, nor any near perfect items
    how do you even get enough money at level 42 to get a mythic
    i mean, i could afford arch, az or pure but do i really want those?
    and i dont beg for money, the only thing i beg for are for people begging for money to shut up
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
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