Patch 1.17.5 - Why Heal-lo There ;)

This wouldn't be an issue if healing wasn't based off server ticks(which by the way, the tps goes down more than you think since you're not normally online), often times healing a player is a "life or death" spell, especially in boss fights. The heals for the mage kit is what made the class worth playing, everything else is lackluster and can be out-shined by features of the other classes. Why be a mage when you can just bring health pots and do even more damage faster on a different class? Not to mention if you even want your heal spell to work properly you have to be on 1.8.9 otherwise you get the spell casting bug. It seems a lot of nerfs are happening because there's some players who spend a lot of time getting the best possible items they can. You're not just "punishing" the players who've spent so much time getting "OP builds" but you ruin it for the less experienced players as well. Even if you are considering all players and not just end game, it really doesn't look like it.

 

The level 3 heal feels like a down grade I'd rather have the level 2 20% heal they should have made the level 3 heal 20% then 5% and 5%

 

You're thinking in the mindset that Heal should be a clutch-saver. It shouldn't invalidate potions, but should still be valuable as a utility in its own right, which it is if you look to use it properly.

 

Who's idea was it to tie Water Damage to Heal amounts??? Didn't you, oh I dunno, just devalue the FK out of everything not water build? Y'all talk about "invalidating" and using it as a reason for all these nerfs and balances, yet you can't see the very plain and obvious knock-on effects it causes in the process. You've also REALLY screwed over Fire mage builds because they'll have a lot of -Water Damage, and therefore getting a nerf that tehy don't deserve and doesn't make sense. Yes, I think that a nerf to heal was nedded, but please please PLEASE take out the Water Damage connotation in the equation!

@Selvut283 And at -100% Water Damage (not that hard to get) You've now cut 5%, which is half of the entire heal spell's power! You've also put a psychological preference towards water builds into play by associating Mage's most distinguished aspect with water, so now more people will assign it as new meta by default. There is literally no logical reason for Water damage to be involved at all. ALL Mages have Heal Spell, but not all mages want water builds. It's an exclusive buff to exactly one style of stat point, and a serial nerf on every other build style. So much for "balance." You and the staff team just caused a massive disruption with what you thought was just a minor detail.

Y'all talk about "invalidating" and using it as a reason for all these nerfs and balances, yet you can't see the very plain and obvious knock-on effect introducing water damage into heal causes in the process. It's both "invalidating" and breaking the "static," (both your own words) which is very self-defeating upon the purposes presented. Oh, and wasn't the mass-outbreak of Mana Regen/Steal ID's on items due to Water builds being too powerful?

Congratulations, you just played yourselves.

 

Remember, ALL spells are tied to elements. For example, Spin attack converts 35% of it's neutral damage to thunder, and War Scream converts 75% of it's neutral damage to fire.
I will agree that losing 50% of heal's effectiveness is a bit much, though. It should be a maximum of 25%, tops.

________________________________

Although at this point, a tier 3 heal is more of a background regeneration than a reliable emergency button. Potions are probably more effective for that purpose

 

He just about summed it up here. Heal was never meant to invalidate potions. The "static" I referred to was, heal always takes from your max health as the basis for its initial % calculation. The water damage doesn't change that number's existence.

 

Well your statement is true only when there's Neutral damage taken into account. For weapons with pure elemental damage that doesn't apply and instead pours into the main element(s) damage. Regardless, any element can make Meteor or Bomb Arrow or Uppercut a devastating spell with the right components, but this whole Water Damage to healing aspect nerfs all the other four elements, period.. It's not like Heal spell gives players "Elemental Health" back or anything, so elements should stay out of the picture.

I used -100% as an example btw. It could easily go far lower (or higher) than that and disproportionately affect the so-called "static" healing values and shift it.

________________________________

Selvut you're only responding to a very small piece of my post here. I was referring to the whole "static" and "invalidate" terms as a means of enforcing why this Water Damage aspect goes against the very intentions y'all had for "balancing" an OP game mechanic. Let's refocus on the meat of the matter here. This change is like saying "Okay we're gonna rebalance the way Agility works, but let's make Air Defense raise or lower its effectiveness." (Sorry to offensive air builds and well, any builds with agility points and -air defense." It's unneeded and illogical, and it's buffing one select group at the expense of all the others.

Tell me please, how is this fair to anybody but Water build users? It's just one biased little thing you can take out of an otherwise much-needed heal redesign, and save a lot of people a lot of angst. Tell me why this small, but very impactful little detail, is so essential to this update?

 

So if heal spell is not meant to be an emergency clutch button why does the level 2 heal act that way? At least make it consistent and make it a 10% + 10% so players don't feel like they've been downgraded.

 

becoz this is by no means a small detail, the item team know of this mechanic and help designed this mechanic for a long while behind the scenes, and it is planned even on gavel development and we only have the technology to do so recently. A lot of items are balanced with this fact in mind, therefore for the longest period of time lament were complained for being useless and weak, while its design clearly hv this intention in mind right off the bet. moreover, for example, fire items, are weak to water, but they have high health pool, both water dmg and high hp affect heal amount, so -water damage make sense to put the heal amount roughly on scale. we did not forsake any builds that isnt water, unless you are using judas or some wands that trade heal amount for damage or other stuff, in fact, this dampens the effect of water mage, dont forget before update, intel mages can just spam heal and get infinite hp while other builds cant, and now heal cant be spammed due to the pulses gives the same amount of hp, it makes mages and heal in general a fairer comparison, and on par with other classes as well

becoz pulses are introduced in the level 3 spell upgrade

 

While this is true, pure element items are few and far between. Pretty much every item has some form of neutral damage, besides a few exceptions (Fatal, Manablast, Overgrown, Voidlight).
Also, notably, Potions are still more effective for the vast majority of cases, even when taking water builds into account, as the vast majority of water items either give no water damage (memento, aquarius, soul signal, azure halo, third eye), or give give negligible amounts (Siepodon, Pisces, Boreal-Patterned, Charybdis).
It's honestly probably more effective to go for a high health build; something like this https://wynndata.tk/s/7OHzB4 is probably a much better cleric build, as when using heal on a person with 10k health this build would easily be healing for 5000 health total, and on yourself it would easily be healing for 6000, compared to a full water build, without losing out on damage with King of Hearts, or Health like with Nepta Floodbringer.
However, and notably, even with a build designed SPECIFICALLY for healing, it still only barely outpaces a level 100 potion, and with a full water build that would still hold up. For example, this build: https://wynndata.tk/s/MJze0p would only heal for 4800 health, and is designed to have the highest water damage one would logically have.
One notable exception is King of Hearts; however, that weapon is designed specifically to be used to give high heals, so I won't count it

 

For some reason I see more thunder items weak to water than fire and earth items also weak to thunder. Elemental defense confuses me sometimes I think there are a bit too many -thunder defense items compared to +defense water and fire items or at least in the more viable ones. Also the main problem that people fear is a meta stagnation due to the only "viable" mage build will be water based.

 

if there are meta stagnations then the item team will do something about it, but we do not see this happening, becoz we know wynn's community always innovate and create new and exciting stuff, and not settle on one boring old solution. even tho we know theres a group of people that would rather do that, but its up to their choice whether they want to hv fun or just settle on something decent at best

for elemental defenses, the elements are always directly weak to the one of its left from the sp manual, with earth on the leftmost weak to air on the rightmost. you would see more -thunder becoz its typically on water items, and water items hv mana which is important for basically any builds.

is water being so important in any builds a good thing? ofc not, but wt can we do about it? we make new and exciting items for you guys to choose, and whether you choose it is your choice

 

I mean, fire mages have twice the health too, so this is negligible.

 

@Thega I'd rather have twice the heal power over twice the health but that's just me. Plus Health is such a wildly variable stat.


Overall I still think it's an odd prospect, and it still has repercussions for non Fire Tanks and Thunder/Air/Earth/Hybrid builds whose HP is in the middle of the road. Although heal has been changed, intel mages (who generally have water damage and mana regen/steal coinciding) can still use Heal more freely than other builds at the cost of max HP, so there's already been that natural tradeoff in Wynn for ages. Therefore this new mechanic could still be seen as a special treat for Water Mages since unlike element attributions to spell damage, Health is a "neutral/fundamental" stat, and I'd tend to stand by that argument. I do hope however that IF a major uprising in the power and prevalence of a "Water Meta" as a result of this, that the staff team would be open to revoking this mechanic instead of buffing everything non-water, or doing another water-based item nerf.

...However I will concede that I might've exaggerated a bit as to the scale of impact this'll have, and that not enough time has passed yet to judge it beyond speculation. I guess I'll just see what happens for awhile before raising any more red flags on this.

 

I'd be up for buffing everything non-water. Especially fire. At the moment if you want to be a tank you go rainbow, not fire. I'd like to see that change.

 

Why is ur goal to get to 0 water def what's wrong with 4 or something like that the more the better right? am I missing something?

 

Hi Love.

Can you please elaborate this issue please!?
Also, I'm using 1.10.2 and don't have spell casting issues, does that occur only for some spells or?

 

because of that -500% water def, which is impossible to counter. If you try to get 4 water def, according to wynn math, 4 x (100%-500%) = -16 water def. Even if your water defence is negative, Wynnmath says this: -96 x (100%-500%) is not 384 but instead -576 water def.

 

oh thanks for the explanation

 

Often times the second and third heals don't matter if you can't heal enough on the first tick before you've died. Previously the second and third tick did not matter if you missed out healing because they were so low in comparison to the first tick of healing. If you were to cast heal spell quickly and do 2 heal spells before waiting 2 ticks for your first heal spell to finish, one of those heals misses out on two thirds of it's total healing due to the server registering only one spell on that server tick. Healing should at least taper down with a higher burst of healing on the first heal among the 3. With 20k health and max possible water % damage I only heal about 3.5k per tick, if I wanted to do multiple heals quickly due to actively taking damage, around 7k of my potential healing is being lost if I heal before those server ticks. Health potions are great and all, but at the same time they're clunky to switch between and require some wait time before you can heal again.

The double right click bug will not happen unless you're around a mob tag or player, the only way around it that I've found is having to point my cross-hair directly upwards. It's an issue with 1.9 and above as far as I remember with the player interact events.