Letter To The Wynn Community

I wasn't the best friend, definitely not the closest, definitely a contributor to a lot of the issues being pointed out, but I'm glad I tried to change (a bit).


Unlikely this'll be taken seriously but here's some observations and analysis.

Class builds elitism is a myth, but #class_builds elitism is a problem.*
* Don't kill me, this isn't a defense of #class_builds. I hate the current state of it.
I wrote a lot but honestly it's just this.

Spoiler: The long version

Someone (not going to call them out, even for a compliment) who just hit lv100 can critically think and make great builds within DAYS of asking questions and receiving constructive criticism.
Meanwhile, other users (sadly the majority) who frequent #class_builds refuse to consider thinking as an option and slap the same items over and over as "comedy" (sometimes seriously, but I like pretending that doesn't happen).
Calling out people for not thinking isn't being elitist. It's literally the opposite, since the people who don't think tend to act like the elite. It would be great if that was all the criticism.
Sadly, it's not. There's a lot of bandwagon insults and needless hating of certain types of builds.
#class_builds as a channel is either an amazing experience or awful, depending on what time you step in there. Moyai spam and really obscure class builds memes are a massive turn-off.

Making the channel more accessible and giving proper constructive criticism is the way to go. Take a break with the memes and spam for a bit as well, thanks.


This is a bit more specific, but don't push your personal taste/preference onto everyone. Doing so promotes the "just use xp set" and "you don't need a build" attitude. Don't recommend items without thinking of the process of getting them. Think about who you're helping. Help people find what they want, not what you want.

Spoiler: Please don't be like this. You can be better.

#questions has issues.*
* It's still the most helpful channel by far, though.
3 main problems:

1. Opinions being presented as facts
2. People who clearly aren't sure about the things they say... completely misleading people.
3. People who legitimately believe in what they say (which is completely wrong) misleading people.

1. The big one. I'm guilty of this, but at least I'm self-aware and explain why this is what I recommend and why I'm giving an opinion.
The vast majority of people don't do that. That's an issue. Don't parrot what I say if you're not going to explain it as well.
2. Trying to go for "community helper" reputation is the biggest reason for this, or just simply trying to answer something that popped up while waiting for a response. The main issue is that I can't even tell people to stop this behavior, since it'll be seen as me being toxic and discouraging others.

If you don't know, just don't answer. Please.

3. This is the worst. It's so hard to say that it's wrong without sounding rude as well.
All can be considered nitpicks, but #questions is going slightly downhill after its recent rise.

#wynncraft and #off_topic*
* wow we're really way too heavily invested in the discord
Both channels, especially the latter, seem like the most elitist in the entire discord. They're full of jokes and memes that just aren't welcoming. I can't really fault #off_topic though. It's more of a friend group than a channel.
The severe lack of moderation in the discord doesn't help, but that's not something we can change. Would really be great if there was some dedicated discord mods in the mod team, but...
Yeah this one was short and more on moderation not happening than the community.

Guild Wars & Profs*
* Grind-based systems with issues
The war system is just awful and basically encourages the toxicity that's associated with the entire guild community. It doesn't help that warrers are put on a pedestal like wars are an accomplishment, when they're not even close to a challenge and reward grind. Toxicity is definitely the fault of the vocal few, though.
The bigger issue is the echo chamber that these communities are. The three notable forum threads are the best example. Acting like the people in that community are the only ones qualified to talk about the supremely important subject that is the system's issues is unbelievably toxic. I'm not going to mention alliances, I think they're fine, but as stated before, the discussion around them is so warped it's insane.
Meanwhile, profs are terrible, especially for new players who sometimes still think they're necessary. Lock them behind AHC completion or something since they're endgame grind anyway (but that's a whole other discussion entirely).
I've definitely said better on this subject, not proud of this. Hopefully it gets the point across.

Harassing the CT*
* And other popular pastimes that need to stop
Harassing the Item Team over changes you don't like isn't okay. They don't manipulate items for their own interest, it would be extremely obvious if they did. Taking a day or two to learn items would make that obvious, but the worse parts of the lootrunning community (which coincidentally are involved with dupes) don't bother doing that.
Harassing the GMs isn't okay.
Harassing any CT isn't okay.
Harassing anyone isn't okay.
Transparency would be great, but those calling for it aren't the ones that are harassing for personal gain.



i'm definitely missing something but here it is.

 

Please just report this stuff. We cannot babysit the chat 24/7.

 

discord mods when :eyes:

 

Yep, and that's why moderating the discord should be something that some mods do exclusively. The lack of discord moderation is an issue that's been around for way too long.

 

Thats a long term solution, Im saying for now, at this moment, reporting is the best you can do

 

I agree about most thing, espescially @99loulou999, tho keep in mind that there are toxicity in every community and part of game where there’s competitive aspect.
Anyway I also enjoys helping newer player, that’s why I level scribing to put like +3k health and defense sp on them lol..

 

TommyInnit fiasco? You mean that guy who posted a YouTube video recently about the server? What was so controversial about that?

 

A lot of people were gatekeeping really hard because they didn't like his fanbase, without any good reason (I hung out in ragni that day, not a glance of toxicity, just a lot of questions).

 

furthermore, since the new influx of players is while theres a host migration, guild side we thought it would be a catastrophe like when wars were disabled for like 1-2 months, which I gotta admit made us pretty toxic for a bit. We were scared that wars would shutdown again and found an easy target (in the end wars didnt even break or if it did I didnt find any)

 

Gotcha. I thought guild wars were getting kinda stale anyway?

 

Well I mean of course everyone can agree that guild wars is just spamming 1 spell for 3-4 minutes and it need to be more challenging, but ye I was refering to something called war breaking, that is when the timer before the war starts hit 0 the war get invalidated and nobody gets teleported to the war server, then you have to switch servers to a new one to war

 

Totally agree, this is why our guild no longer does guild wars on a consistent basis (We only take void valley every now and then to run bulb cave and lv up our guild)

 

i don't think so

________________________________

this is why i'm in literally no servers besides my music server, with only 4 friends lol. it gets depressing fast but not much i can do about it
i left the wynncraft discord long ago since i never really fit in, like on any other server no matter how nice xd
idk why im saying all this im so lonely help

 

As someone who doesn't get involved with guilds or professions or any of that nonsense, I can't claim to be knowledgeable about any of that. (I will also not mention the Discord because... yeah.) I have, however, noticed some... sour aspects of the community lately, a lot of it stuff that you've pointed out. Elitism and dislike of change or new players are probably the two biggest ones. The elitism occurs in pretty much any way it can, from "I'm a *real* builder, you're just using <meta>" to "you're bad for not being able to <solo LI, solo EO, solo Qira, complete some other major challenge, etc.>" to probably the worst of the lot, "I've been here for longer than you/ played more than you/ tryharded more than you so I'm better than you" which is an incredibly toxic and repulsive mindset. And yet I see it. A lot. Find one large thread asking for help or suggesting something controversial without one of those. Then, fetch me a unicorn because that's probably a more likely find.

The other one I've noticed lately, thanks to the TommyInnit video is the, well, frankly the outright xenophobia some people display. People were actively complaining about the idea of new players coming in and ruining their perfect server based on random prejudices of who would be joining because some of them would probably be young and immature and toxic or whatever, completely missing the irony of that. That fits well the the elitism, and leads to the "you're a new player so your opinions don't count" nonsense that pops up in general suggestions from time to time all the time. I'm not saying experience doesn't tend to make your opinion a more educated, or that new players are always right or even that they always have good suggestions, or even that a lack of experience can't be called out if that's actually relevant, but if you bring it up just to discredit (or insult) them, when your only attack of an idea is "you're a new player so your opinion doesn't count" and then you post that? That's the stuff that makes me want to leave these forums, because clearly all of us are worthless compared to your megabrain and there's no reason for us to stick around any longer (Sorry if I'm a little extremely bitter and angry; I really, really hate this mindset). Even if there are solid complaints with their idea, if that's seriously the route you go down, that's just elitist toxicity. This isn't necessarily a large number of players, but it's enough and gets enough support that it isn't hard to find and it just leaves a sour taste in my mouth when I do.

That being said, I do feel like there's a lot of really good people here, and that a lot of them try to actively help and make it better. Most people welcome and help new players. A lot of them don't care if you can solo EO or if your build is all morph set or how many hours you've played for. Many of the people here make brilliant, fun content that actually enriches the community or the game, or try their best to make the experience as fun for others as possible, and I really do love this community in general for them, but these really, really toxic elements should not be overlooked.

 

On a small note: we had some looking out for stuff, we even stopped taging the entire role and just asked the only ones that are around most of the time.

What i can say for sure - youre either silent on the discord and do your private mod work in peace, or you have to face the entire junk of the community.

People talking bad about you, people relying on you, as a moderator who is actively involving themself in the discord you have to face the people who gave up on all the other staff and are now bound and force their idea of whats right and wrong to you, the elitism and the sometimes appearing „harassment“ (talking bad, lies, etc. both directly and behind your back), as well as the other part of the community, the people just playing wynn for possibly the first time. You should know how annoying the questions and mod tags can get at times.

I have only seen a few moderators daily on the discord around 2-3 channels. I only noticed them appearing less. (not including @tags of course, just casually vibing around) Nobody should blame them, it can get on your mental at times. And im saying this from an outside view, this is how bad the situation is.


Shoutout to Toy, thanks for dealing with #general and all of our stupid stuff back then. Hope youre doing good in life.

 

Aaand there goes the tiger juice.....

Farewell. Wish the best for your future!

 

actually freakcrow has the tiger milk

 

And people ask me why I'm not in a guild...
Thank you for re-affirming this idea.

Stay safe on your travels, and never forget your way. Goodbye, soldier.
Hope to see you again one day.

 

THANK YOU!! I've been frustrated with the build community since starting. I've been dabbling in builds on my own (and have a fun 100% ws build at lvl 70 to show for it), never bothering to get input from the build community because I knew I'd only get "DOnT fOCuS oN BuiLDs TIlL LvL90+ *groans*
I think building is fun at any level, and shouldn't be snubbed on by higher level players

HMU on discord! I'm down to have a friend to run quests and dungeons with =) NeutralDensity#0686