Guide Kinda Guide, Mythics And Loot Bonus, And +1 Question

NicBOMB · Jun 21, 2017

Since people were getting confused I have edited the thread extensively! ENJOY! TLDR MASSIVE THREAD UPDATE!!!!!

NicBOMB said: ↑

I suggest reading this part of "The Old Thread" before the edits, if not the entire Old Thread.

To start this off, I know that LB (Loot Bonus) doesn't affect loot chests, and that the compass is borken af and rather untrustworthy, and this thread is one long stream of consciousness. Continuing on to the question: How does loot bonus affect mythics? and more specifically their drop rate?
When I decided to investigate this question I found some possibly fake information and wanted clarity on whether or not any of it is true. I know that the wynn wiki doesn't have accurate attack speed numbers, but if their "7/ 1 million" (that part needs clarity if it wasn't obvious) drop rate for mythics isn't a magical number pulled from someone's rear-end (or possibly Jumla's tea) then we can do some math to find out 'theoretically' how long anyone should have to wait to find a mythic just by killing enemies (enemies and mobs and monsters are synonymous throughout the post in-case of confusion, so just think of it as 1 Frozen enemy at glacial heights until the end when we talk more about mob kills).

Part 1 of Edit #2: Okay, so this method seen in "The Old Thread" doesn't 100% work for the following reasons
Reasons:
1. Each item has its own specific drop rate, which in turn means that you would need to know the drop rate of the item you want instead of some arbitrary/false "7/1 million".
2. The reason my "Old Thread" still technically works for finding the chance of an item to drop is due to the fact that there is actually a drop rate for each item. If you found the drop rate for the item you wanted and plugged that in instead of the 7/1 million, you could actually find the amount of enemies necessary to find an item and the time it would take as well.
3. Loot Bonus doesn't work the way I believed it to. I interpreted +LB% to mean that the chances of 'the' (terminology is important here) item dropping were increased by the added % loot bonus.
False Example: 239%LB and 7/1 million for mythic. 2.39*7=16.73 (7+16.73)/1 million.

What actually is being increased is the chance of 'an' item dropping, not 'the' item you want, which indirectly increases your chances of an item you might want, like a mythic. The problem here is that indirect nature of LB. Even if you have 0% LB, you still recieve a decent chance of an item dropping (the chance of a mythic or legendary item is unchanged). Think of LB% as increasing the amount of monsters that you have killed without actually adding 1 to your total. By increasing the chances of another item dropping instead of the chances of 'the' item dropping, mythics are kept well out of players reach, but that won't stop people. There are just too many people playing wynncraft for mythics not to exist. That is also why I got my first mythic with less than 30% LB and such low chest and mob kill stats. RNGesus decides the outcomes of your drops, not LB, and not 'necessarily' the amount of enemies that you kill. Having both LB and Killing lots of enemies WILL greatly decrease the time it takes to get another mythic by increasing the amount of times you 'roll the dice' (RNG), but truely it is RNGesus that will decide when you get your mythics. On a side note I am not religious but, find RNGesus to be my only deity. lol. RNG means Random Number Generation btw; it is used to describe the chances of the random number in lines of code dictating your rewards from loot drops in this example. I'm surprised I forgot to cover that in the Old Thread ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

To start off I am just going to use the LB that I find in my compass, now DON'T tell me the compass borken af cause I already know and don't genuinely have enough need to figure out the 1 or 2 % difference between my actual stats and the compass stats since this is just an example.

My LB is 239 in compass. With that we can multiply 7 by 2.39 and get 16.73. Now we add this back to our 7 in the numerator (top of fraction) for an underwhelming 23.73/1 million (1,000,000)
Example: [here 7 is our chance out of 1 million of getting the mythic] ((7)+(7)LB%)/1 million=((7)+(7)2.39)/1 million.
Okay, now we have found our LB, determined our chances, and are on the final stretch. Theoretical calculations!

Before we continue I need to reiterate that LB is still a game of chance. Having a higher LB will increase your loot drops from monsters, but mythics are still really f-in hard to get. Even if you fulfill your 'theoretical calculation's' mob kill total, you likely won't just receive one after that many mobs killed. For example, I had less that 80% LB (cosmic set bonus) and was grinding glacial heights when I got my first mythic. I won't try and do math with that example but with the numbers you get from here, it should be obvious that RNGesus will determine the actual outcomes of your mythic grinding.

Wow, better start doing math before people stop reading lol. (the last paragraph)
Here things get confusing but try and stick with it. So, 23.73/1,000,000... Seems like shit right? Don't blow off this number yet. If you divide 1 million by 23.73, to see how many 'times' (or mob kills) it would take to get 1 mythic to drop with my example you get 42140.7501054 mobs. Round that up to the nearest single unit from the hundredths place. meaning you go from 0.7(5)<-- the 5 to the zero --->(0).xx this will hopefully make up for some more RNGesus miss calculations by forcing you to overestimate by 2 decimal points. So 42140.7501054 means we need to kill 42141 mobs for a single mythic drop. Using that we can estimate how long we need in order to kill that many enemies. If we found exactly how many enemies we kill on average every minute we could probably have a more accurate calc, but for now we are going to use 8 enemies/minute because my archer with 239 lb has shit kill potential. Just divide your total mobs by your enemies/minute (total mobs ---> 42141 / 8 <--8 is my rate over time). To put the figures that we just calculated from the top of the post to the bottom: We get 5267.625 minutes for a single mythic drop if 8 enemies are killed per minute with 239% Loot Bonus Gear Equipped. The formulas are here:

((7)+(7)LB%) / 1 million=[((7)+(added chance) / 1 million.] <--- new resulting loot drop chance

1 million / (insert new resulting drop chance) <--------- total times you need to roll the dice (total mob kills)

estimated enemies / minute (this one is arbitrary unless you actually figure it out so use how many mobs you believe you kill per minute)

Total Mob Kills / (Estimated Enemies / Minute) <--- new time from each mythic

(New Time for each mythic)/60 = New time in hours instead

TLDR of Part 1 in Part 2 (below)
Part 2 of Edit#2: okay, if you read my last edit, kudos. I put the old thread untoutched in the spoiler in case anyone ever finds the actual drop rate of a mythic and wants to find the time required to get one themselves. To provide a TLDR version of Part 1, My method for finding mythic drop rates doesn't work since every item has its own currently unknown drop rates, and the drop rates of each item will likely never be disclosed. Loot Bonus doesn't work the way I used it in my algorithm either, so that part I clarified in part 1 (it's too complex for TLDR). Finally, this thread is not dead. I want more information here! I want to know the drop rates for mythic items in the game to be provided, and I want your guy's opinions on mythics right now. They have kinda taken over the market, and forced other items to tank in price.
That's IT! Hope you liked the post! drop a like if you did, and I guess share it to the people constantly asking the best way to get mythics I guess. It is probably the best advice I could give at least. ;)
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ReGhiaccio · Jun 21, 2017

This post made me burn my maxed loot bonus items.

NicBOMB · Jun 21, 2017

ReGhiaccio said: ↑

This post made me burn my maxed loot bonus items.
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NicBOMB said: ↑

Having both LB and Killing lots of enemies WILL greatly decrease the time it takes to get another mythic by increasing the amount of times you 'roll the dice' (RNG), but truely it is RNGesus that will decide when you get your mythics.
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________________________________

Stag2001 said: ↑

Wiki is outdated, and thing is: every item has its own drop chance. How else can you explain the fact that certain mythics (alka) aren't nearly as rare as stratiformis, warp, idol (i was told thats rare), monster, and any rare mythic really. Also the fact most people run in rodoroc so things like ignis and other lvl 85-95 mythics are less rare, but still.

Also 7/1 million seems like a random number pulled out of their rear-end.
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'Outdated'^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Aya · Jun 21, 2017

NicBOMB said: ↑

2.39*7=16.73 (7+16.73)/1 million.
Click to expand...

wat
explain in a PG-13 way

NicBOMB · Jun 21, 2017

The Grox said: ↑

wat
explain in a PG-13 way
Click to expand...

239% implies 2.39 since that is how a % works. 7 is your chance out of 1 million that you will get the item. I interpret +LB% as adding chance in this equation, which means {7+(7 times LB% [2.39])}/ 1 million. With our LB% it would be (7+7*2.39/1 million)
Here is an illistration

Stag2001 · Jun 21, 2017

NicBOMB said: ↑

________________________________

View attachment 110882
'Outdated'^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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Yes, outdated and filled with false info about this kind of game mechanics.

NicBOMB · Jun 22, 2017

NicBOMB said: ↑

I suggest reading this part of "The Old Thread" before the edits (Edit 1 has 2 parts), if not the entire Old Thread. Also, hopefully, the last edit (#2) is down at the bottom of the thread ;).

To start this off, I know that LB (Loot Bonus) doesn't affect loot chests, and that the compass is borken af and rather untrustworthy, and this thread is one long stream of consciousness. Continuing on to the question: How does loot bonus affect mythics? and more specifically their drop rate?
When I decided to investigate this question I found some possibly fake information and wanted clarity on whether or not any of it is true. I know that the wynn wiki doesn't have accurate attack speed numbers, but if their "7/ 1 million" (that part needs clarity if it wasn't obvious) drop rate for mythics isn't a magical number pulled from someone's rear-end (or possibly Jumla's tea) then we can do some math to find out 'theoretically' how long anyone should have to wait to find a mythic just by killing enemies (enemies and mobs and monsters are synonymous throughout the post in-case of confusion, so just think of it as 1 Frozen enemy at glacial heights until the end when we talk more about mob kills).

Part 1 of Edit #1: Okay, so this method seen in "The Old Thread" doesn't 100% work for the following reasons
Reasons:
1. Each item has its own specific drop rate, which in turn means that you would need to know the drop rate of the item you want instead of some arbitrary/false "7/1 million".
2. The reason my "Old Thread" still technically works for finding the chance of an item to drop is due to the fact that there is actually a drop rate for each item. If you found the drop rate for the item you wanted and plugged that in instead of the 7/1 million, you could actually find the amount of enemies necessary to find an item and the time it would take as well.
3. Loot Bonus doesn't work the way I believed it to. I interpreted +LB% to mean that the chances of 'the' (terminology is important here) item dropping were increased by the added % loot bonus.
False Example: 239%LB and 7/1 million for mythic. 2.39*7=16.73 (7+16.73)/1 million.

What actually is being increased is the chance of 'an' item dropping, not 'the' item you want, which indirectly increases your chances of an item you might want, like a mythic. The problem here is that indirect nature of LB. Even if you have 0% LB, you still recieve a decent chance of an item dropping (the chance of a mythic or legendary item is unchanged). Think of LB% as increasing the amount of monsters that you have killed without actually adding 1 to your total. By increasing the chances of another item dropping instead of the chances of 'the' item dropping, mythics are kept well out of players reach, but that won't stop people. There are just too many people playing wynncraft for mythics not to exist. That is also why I got my first mythic with less than 30% LB and such low chest and mob kill stats. RNGesus decides the outcomes of your drops, not LB, and not 'necessarily' the amount of enemies that you kill. Having both LB and Killing lots of enemies WILL greatly decrease the time it takes to get another mythic by increasing the amount of times you 'roll the dice' (RNG), but truely it is RNGesus that will decide when you get your mythics. On a side note I am not religious but, find RNGesus to be my only deity. lol. RNG means Random Number Generation btw; it is used to describe the chances of the random number in lines of code dictating your rewards from loot drops in this example. I'm surprised I forgot to cover that in the Old Thread ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

To start off I am just going to use the LB that I find in my compass, now DON'T tell me the compass borken af cause I already know and don't genuinely have enough need to figure out the 1 or 2 % difference between my actual stats and the compass stats since this is just an example.

My LB is 239 in compass. With that we can multiply 7 by 2.39 and get 16.73. Now we add this back to our 7 in the numerator (top of fraction) for an underwhelming 23.73/1 million (1,000,000)
Example: [here 7 is our chance out of 1 million of getting the mythic] ((7)+(7)LB%)/1 million=((7)+(7)2.39)/1 million.
Okay, now we have found our LB, determined our chances, and are on the final stretch. Theoretical calculations!

Before we continue I need to reiterate that LB is still a game of chance. Having a higher LB will increase your loot drops from monsters, but mythics are still really f-in hard to get. Even if you fulfill your 'theoretical calculation's' mob kill total, you likely won't just receive one after that many mobs killed. For example, I had less that 80% LB (cosmic set bonus) and was grinding glacial heights when I got my first mythic. I won't try and do math with that example but with the numbers you get from here, it should be obvious that RNGesus will determine the actual outcomes of your mythic grinding.

Wow, better start doing math before people stop reading lol. (the last paragraph)
Here things get confusing but try and stick with it. So, 23.73/1,000,000... Seems like shit right? Don't blow off this number yet. If you divide 1 million by 23.73, to see how many 'times' (or mob kills) it would take to get 1 mythic to drop with my example you get 42140.7501054 mobs. Round that up to the nearest single unit from the hundredths place. meaning you go from 0.7(5)<-- the 5 to the zero --->(0).xx this will hopefully make up for some more RNGesus miss calculations by forcing you to overestimate by 2 decimal points. So 42140.7501054 means we need to kill 42141 mobs for a single mythic drop. Using that we can estimate how long we need in order to kill that many enemies. If we found exactly how many enemies we kill on average every minute we could probably have a more accurate calc, but for now we are going to use 8 enemies/minute because my archer with 239 lb has shit kill potential. Just divide your total mobs by your enemies/minute (total mobs ---> 42141 / 8 <--8 is my rate over time). To put the figures that we just calculated from the top of the post to the bottom: We get 5267.625 minutes for a single mythic drop if 8 enemies are killed per minute with 239% Loot Bonus Gear Equipped. The formulas are here:

((7)+(7)LB%) / 1 million=[((7)+(added chance) / 1 million.] <--- new resulting loot drop chance

1 million / (insert new resulting drop chance) <--------- total times you need to roll the dice (total mob kills)

estimated enemies / minute (this one is arbitrary unless you actually figure it out so use how many mobs you believe you kill per minute)

Total Mob Kills / (Estimated Enemies / Minute) <--- new time from each mythic

(New Time for each mythic)/60 = New time in hours instead

TLDR of Edit #1 Part 1 in Part 2 (below)

Part 2 of Edit#1: okay, if you read my last edit, kudos. I put the old thread untoutched in the spoiler in case anyone ever finds the actual drop rate of a mythic and wants to find the time required to get one themselves. To provide a TLDR version of Part 1, My method for finding mythic drop rates doesn't work since every item has its own currently unknown drop rates, and the drop rates of each item will likely never be disclosed. Loot Bonus doesn't work the way I used it in my algorithm either, so that part I clarified in part 1 (it's too complex for TLDR). Finally, this thread is not dead. I want more information here! I want to know the drop rates for mythic items in the game to be provided, and I want your guy's opinions on mythics right now. They have kinda taken over the market, and forced other items to tank in price.

Edit#2 The new tactics that I have come up with. Okay, if you read the TLDR I will have a TLDR that simplifies this paragraph. For those of you reading the entire thing, lets do this!

Okay, so last edit I said "My method for finding (it really should have been using mythic drop rates but eh, good enough) mythic drop rates doesn't work" and listed the 3 main reasons my algorithm don't work. However, we aren't blocked from thinking about mythic drop rates algebraically (with an undefined variable). When I say that, I mean we can just use logic instead of numbers to find a way to decrease our time to getting a mythic to drop.

I actually had this idea yesterday, and pretty much reaffirmed it today. Okay, so LB% increases the chances of more items being dropped from monsters. Therefore, if we use LB equipment when killing enemies, we are essentially killing more enemies without adding another tally. Allow me to explain this further. Lets say I have 200% LB, I will 'likely' receive 3 times the amount of items than killing the same monster with 0% LB. This is true in most cases, and has been double checked by me. The only problem is that even LB% doesn't guarantee drops either. When you kill enemies with and without LB% there is still a chance that it won't drop an item. And too add onto all of this, LB items decrease your ttk (time to kill) because most force you to sacrifice something in exchange for the LB (hp, hp regen, life steal, dmg%, etc.). SO, we now know that loot bonus gear (the irony), and low ttk gear, helps the least for our 'loot build' because it:

1. Doesn't guarantee drops.
2. Increases our ttk and therefore our time till next mythic.
3. Forces us to sacrifice a stat in exchange for LB%

Here is the part where I come up with some conclusions on my thoughts, then TLDR! So, we know that having high ttk, very little LB% (having some never hurt, but it helps the least compared to ttk), and items with the most beneficial stats for decreasing ttk should be in our 'loot build' for grinding. We should also take into consideration the location for grinding, as the enemies in different areas have different elemental defs and weaknesses, and exploiting them can decrease our ttk even further. I suggest Freezing Heights since all the mobs are about lvl.92 and are weak to fire, but DCave or sky islands or really whatever you guys want could work. Just remember that this entire thread is an experiment. OH, I just rememberred this while writing the TLDR. The whole point of all that ^^^ was to decrease the ttk of our 'loot build' and increase the amount of monsters that we kill per minute to make up for losing LB% which also increases our loot drops more than LB% anyways (since we are killing more enemies per minute).
TLDR of EDIT #2!
LB% doesn't 100% increase drops from mobs (the irony) since it is still a chance, LB items typically force users to drop usefull stats and therefore are useless for grinding, and decreasing our ttk can decrease our time till next mythic (like the old thread but no math, just logic). Therefore if we focus on creating a 'loot build' that decreases our ttk by exploiting the elemental weaknesses of enemies in our preferred grinding zone and using equipment that best decreases our ttk (essentially get some one-shot cannons that have super fast attack speed against fast spawning trash mobs) in order to kill more enemies per minute and have more chances at loot dropping.
I will be making a new thread in the "Class Builds" sub forum based on this thread. See you there!
That's IT! Hope you liked the post! drop a like if you did, and I guess share it to the people constantly asking the best way to get mythics I guess. It is probably the best advice I could give at least. ;)
Click to expand...

One last update! Come read!

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Guide Kinda Guide, Mythics And Loot Bonus, And +1 Question

NicBOMB Maker of Builds | Lurks on Forums | 1 Mythic Found CHAMPION

ReGhiaccio Guest

NicBOMB Maker of Builds | Lurks on Forums | 1 Mythic Found CHAMPION

Aya Very Serious Gensokyo Journalist HERO

NicBOMB Maker of Builds | Lurks on Forums | 1 Mythic Found CHAMPION

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NicBOMB Maker of Builds | Lurks on Forums | 1 Mythic Found CHAMPION