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I feel like warrior mythics as a whole should be discussed a bit.

In short, all warrior mythics feel a bit below the mythic powerlevel of other classes.

Now, i am aware that this might be an internal problem with the class itself, and i get the "warrior is meant to be a tank class", but we have seen time and time again that this works in very few cases. Again this a problem with the class, but i feel like the mythics should be balanced accordingly to balance the damage out with the awkward spell mechanics and lacking damage. The only case i would argue warrior working defensivly is using apocalypse and guardian, but even the latter feels kind of underwhelming.

I feel like idol is the best example of this. The damage is kind of underwhelming, and items such as tidebinder can achieve nearly the same damage while also offering some defensive capabilities. This and the fact that warrior already has to deal with awkward spell mechanics makes it feel like missed potential. Don't get me wrong, it is one of the most fun mythics in the game, but its power is hardly comparable with water mythics from other classes, which is likely because all other classes have some form of instant damage (except meteor, but meteor has a lot of burst and is still faster then uppercuts full attack animation).

Another case could be alkatraz. Going for full melee on it is basically suicide. You could argue a hybrid build might work, but then you compare it to other earth mythics and you start seeing where it lacks. Grandmother and grimtrap both work well with hybrid builds, and even gaia can prove that melee builds can work for earth mythics.

I could also go in depth on hero, but the low level kind of justifies the powerlevel? Even tho mythics that are around 95 prove that mythics dont have to be level 98-100 to be very powerful.

All these reasons probably explain why warrior mythics these days are the least desirable mythics on the market, selling for the lowest amount out of any class. I am aware this is a problem with the class rather then the items, but again i dont see them buffing the class in general, so the items should be balanced accordingly.

 

to be fair, i've never seen tidebinder hit idol levels of damage in a real build

 

True, yet tidebinder also has other upsides next to damage (Agility boost without an agility req, massive boost to water defense and a nice fire defense boost), while idol has, err, soul point regen? insanely small defense boosts except for water (tidebinder having 90% tho)?. Where im going is that compared to mythics from other classes, idol and the majority of the warrior mythics feel underwhelming.

 

Same deal with, say, Fatal or even Cataclysm.

Doing 4k more uppercuts (1.4x tide’s uppers [14k total]) is the same damage factor as cata too. I guess.

 

I thin you're understating Idol's damage boosts. Good Tidebinder gets 10k uppercuts, good Idol gets 13k or 14k. That's pretty good.

 

I agree, Earth/Thunder have to pick 3 elements, the reason being that they have to spec into either Earth/Thunder, Water for spell damage, and then finally, either defense or agility. Agility is the better and more preferred option, due to the fact that with enough agility and walk speed, you can basically get away with anything with minimal health potions, since you can rejuvenate with AoR. Defense really needs a good buff, because with defense, you tend to use more HP pots, which makes you bleed LE in the long run. So Agility is much more preferable in comparison to defense, since you can always throw yourself at the boss again and again with Agility, but you need to conserve, and save your LE, because that is much more rare, since quest rewards were nerfed.

With Water/Fire/Air builds you need only pick 2 elements, Water and Fire/Air, so you can save up more skill points, and not worry about SP so much. So thats' why I think, that melee needs a buff, so that you don't need to depend on Water so hard. Melee should be a viable option IMO, since you have entire armor pieces dedicated to melee, that are just not very good right now, because melee itself is sub-par in comparison to spells.

 

hah noob hp pots hpr superior

 

Idol can hit up to 17k and tide can hit up to about 11k at most post nerf (pre nerf I could push it to 12.4k) that in itself is an issue because when for warrior basicly every mythic is leagues beyond their legendary counterparts to the point the legendaries in pvp for sure and often pve are just straight up bad is an issue. this honestly I feel is both in part to warrior sadly being too weak at the moment and the mythics mostly being underwhelming as well.

The examples for warrior are
Ignition/Diaminar vs apoc
Rikter vs Alka (ik rikter is 84 but alka is only 94 why the 10k dps difference)
idol vs tide (these are functionally different but the tide nerf was total bs)
Zephra vs Hero (hero is already somewhat weak but adding a weaker version that punishes you for using it is weird)
Thrunda vs Quinque (like what even is quinque...)
Ignition/Undying vs Guard
Proxima vs Collapse

NOW aside from tide and diaminar/ignition do you ever SEE people use the non mythic variants of these weapons??

Take a look at ninja mythics for a sec and we get this
Sitis vs Nirvana
Ivory vs weathered
Thrunda ripsaw vs cata
Flameshot vs Inferno vs fire hive dagger vs black
Earth hive vs Grim
idk what to go with that rainbow thing....
I mean powdered slider/Alazarian can freaking work as subs ffs

So of these its quite common to see the legendary variants be used endgame. I myself even use a Sitis build for my ninja and find it can fight mythic users quite well.

Here's just my thoughts for warriors legendaries/mythics
give tide its freaking spell id back
make Zephra not slowly kill you
Make another earth spear that actually is capable of like 70% of the dps alka is

and for mythics honestly alot of them just need a remake. aside from alka/apoc which are known for tier stacking most of these mythics feel as though they lack identity and that there is truly nothing super special about them other than more damage. When I find/buy an extremely rare and expensive item i want it to feel special, I want to have something special about it that a powdered infused hive spear can't give me. Sure alot of the problems lye in the fact warrior is the most underwhelming class right now but the weapons as I said above really also could use some help.

 

So I just discovered that Morph set is being massively nerfed, and after I read the patch notes I couldn't help but actually laugh at loud at the removal of all elemental damages. I understand that the item team wasn't happy with where the Morph set was, but it was just a safe and comfortable end-game build for players who didn't really care.

So this makes me wonder, does the item team realize that not everyone cares about creative builds? There are a lot of players who opt out of creative build making, because they don't care about making unique or interesting builds, they just want a solid, all around build that they know they can rely on. It's a powerful build, because it's an endgame one, and therefore has pretty much no need for xp or loot bonus. Furthermore, I think it's rather unintuitive to force players into pulling out wynndata, or stressing about all the items in their vault to pull together a build. Give players who don't want to deal with that bullshit an option to simply use a well rounded, reliable, and powerful build.

The Morph-Set does not take away from the creativity or ingenuity of Wynn builds, I believe that most players avoid morph, simply because it is so powerful. They enjoy and want to make their own unique builds. Morph-Set is undoubtedly one of the best builds, if not the best build out there, but players don't use it, because they'd rather sacrifice power for the ability to make an exclusive build.

With all this being said, there is still, without a doubt, a needed nerf on the morph-set, but a complete removal of elemental damage is a fucking joke. It's damage goes from good, to abyssmal. The downsides of using morph-set were already: lower damage values, lack of various stats like walk speed, and the sacrifice of creativity. Adding on this ginormous damage nerf is disgusting, it makes the build useless, even for lazy, busy, or straight up stupid players. This nerf is essentially taking away 175% damage boost, which is not acceptable, and quite frankly the item should know better than to do that. This should be a nerf correct? In that case nerf the damn set, don't fucking kill it. Cut the damage% increase by a significant margin. Here is perhaps a general idea of what the nerf should look like:
2 set: 5%
3 set: 5%
4 set: 10%
5 set: 10%
6 set: 15%
7 set: 15%
8 set: 20%

This is reducing the damage % increase to +100% instead of the previous 175%. If, after tests. the damage is still too similar to the previous, decrease it more. But that elemental damage % is really significant, and should always stay above at least 10%.

This nerf will really truly kill the morph set, partial morph, and other rainbow damage builds were just as good, if not better. Giving pointless loot bonus and xp bonus stats, as well as 1 mana regen, and slight skill point increases is not enough. Morph set has been the build that's cheap, that's reliable, and that's easy. Give the players who want a nice easy time, a nice easy time. Nerfing this build into shit will make this build nearly unviable. Nerfing this build in moderation is what it really needs.

 

You're being a little disingenous. Elemental damages can never stack, so 35% all elemental damages being removed is at most a 35% decrease in damage.

Here's current morph set: https://wynndata.tk/s/TN3yB0
Here's (damage-accurate) morph set with the changes added: https://wynndata.tk/s/nd9Vsr (the changes to Amethyst and Ruby balance out the changes to Stardust and Gold, in terms of annoying bases, so you should have about the same amount of sp on your gear on average after the change)

50% Def, 50% Agi, enough Int to spell spam quite hard (I recommend 129), and you can still push damage to nearly 10k, alongside having 8/4s mana regen. It's still a very powerful build, on par with the best of them.

 

Here’s my two cents on warrior mythics:

Idol does really good in water earth fire, because of warriors general bulkiness. It also deals really good damage, whereas tidebinder offers a more defensive approach to water warrior at the cost of dealing very low damage.


Collapse can work extremely well as hybrid, it can also be tier stacked to get decent dps and as spell it’s just alright. It offers huge versatility in gameplay and can also pierce defenses well. There are a bunch of different collapse builds on the forums so just have a look around for one.

For hero, although lower level, I personally think it’s alright in pure air, but you can also go raw melee stack and get like 9k dps with significant agility and defenses:
https://wynndata.tk/s/EnHRWi
(110 agil 84 defenses)

Apoc is pretty generic tier stack and survivability trough lifesteal, definitely boring but does the job as a fire spear

Alkatraz is tier stack as well, and it can reach really good numbers without being brought up to super fast like in this build: https://wynndata.tk/s/7ckWUv
But generally I do agree alkatraz is underwhelming and extremely hard to make work due to sacrificing survivability for more dps.

Thrunda gets insane damage for the cost of survivability, but it’s really fun to play as glass and kill anything in your way really quickly. I think it does it’s job pretty well




I think the problem stems with the class itself rather than the items, and its spell kit.
Bash is really its main damaging spell, and it’s pretty easy to hit both parts. Uppercut only really works if you get the mob stuck under a ceiling. War scream is purely a buff and no one uses it for the damage.

A fair trade off for the class is that it’s generally very hard to die, you’re bulkier than any other class but at the cost of lower damages in general.
If we tried to balance mythics to compensate for that, you’d probably end up with them being significantly too good.
It’s also less fun to play compared to assassin, archer or even mage.

It’s probably a combination of these factors that contribute to their low market prices.
I do agree that some warrior mythics should be brought up in terms of strength, but power creeping their damage to compensate for the class’ tankiness seems like a bad idea overall.

 

You didn't mention Guardian

 

There is absolutely nothing unintuitive or unacceptable in "enforcing" people, if they want a really powerful build, to put effort into designing it and then gathering the items needed for it. It is, however, a huge middle-finger to these people, to have a set which can be thrown together in a few minutes and has nearly the same strength as theirs. It is (supposed to be) common sense that you must put effort into anything if you want it to turn into something great. You shouldn't expect amazing builds to be given on silver platters. Morph-Set is the complete opposite of (perhaps "creative" wasn't the right way from the IMs to express themselves) effort, thereby it shouldn't reward you as much as you'd expect it to. People who care should be rewarded.

https://wynndata.tk/s/NF2vG1 here is a majestic Stratiformis build that uses a variety of different items to create a strong and, despite the deceptive defenses, quite reliable build. It is really powerful without a doubt and requires effort to get good items for it. It should be rewarding the user if they manage to complete it. (Nerf Strati bla,bla,bla...)

https://wynndata.tk/s/WK9wkG and here is a majestic Morph-Aquarius build that has less hp, less mana regen, yet it reaches the damage level of the previous one, it's not causing difficulty with the rolls, it's purely effortless, it's just an "Instant Wynncraft build"

People would rather not use Morph-Set because they see there are better options than this one whole set, however we'll get deeper into this in the following "argument".

It has been mentioned before that your math is a little bit off so I won't talk about it, however what I'd like to point out is that you're self-contradicting yourself from your previous statement where you called the Morph-Set one of the best builds while now you mention it lacks some quite important stats.
- Walk speed allows you to manually dodge most incoming attacks so you don't have to always rely on agility (and pray to RNGsus to save you from grave situations).
- The more damage you can output allows you to fight a strong foe for less time, decreasing potential damage taken and the risk of taking a fatal hit.
- Lack of creativity is one thing, but (at this point I'm just repeating myself) lack of effort is another one.

Of course it isn't that weak either, if it triggered another nerf. And it's still super easy to put together. Occasionally it even outperforms real builds.

Laziness is hardly objectionable.

 

Most players can't afford mythics, let alone weapon mythics. Players who have the full morph set have gotten to level 100, saying they put in no effort is a lie. Players who've stuck around till that point deserve some sort of end-game payoff, and it's their decision if they want to use morph or not, most end up enjoying their own personal builds. Morph set is one of the best builds, but it's not perfect, I'm acknowledging that it isn't a perfect build, and players who use it don't get the benefits and payoffs of creative build making. Many custom made builds are far stronger than morph set at level 100, and accommodate different scenarios and different player play styles. And yes, although morph overshadows quite a few builds that are creative, that isn't to say it doesn't need a nerf.

 

dang, this set really sucks now
now you only get like 80% of damage of normal builds. i mean, seriously. 10k bombs? unacceptable. useless. throw it away. what? you get probably over double the tankiness of those normal builds? but 80% damage super sucks diero item team.

(double tankiness comes from 100 agi, 65 defense, 12k hp, all elemental defenses above 100, easy powder special access without murdering defenses [12 slots],

compared to

generally only net ~70 agi + defense, 10k hp, some elemental defenses near -100, lower poder slots)

 

Yeah morph is all around well balanced despite its short comings, but never the less it's not even worth investing into. It's damage as is was mediocre at best, and taking away more damage makes it basically a tank build. No one wants to play a tank build that has no walk speed, poison, life steal, etc. People are going to invest into partial morph or non morph rainbow, because it's not fun to play a slow, low damage, tanky build, and everyone knows that. At least morph, as it is, had decent damage.

Interesting you specify the 10k bombs, because morph is really too good on archer, but that can't really apply to other classes. With archer you can stand on top of your enemies and arrow storm spam them, and you still can after the morph set nerf, but consider lower dps classes like mage, warrior, and even assassin. Warriors are tanky as they are already, so not many warriors will be using morph. Mages have heal, but do benefit well from the mana regen and high defense anyways, so perhaps mages will be using morph more than warrior or assassin. While assassins don't really need to worry about their defenses as much considering their vanish spell, and mid-range capabilities. Archer is the only class that can really abuse morph set, because all the other classes have builds that are naturally tanky and better in damage. Archer too has way better builds, but the fact of the matter is that morph set should be a reliable end-game build. It should be the payoff players get when they've finally hit level 100, especially for those who don't care about creative builds and without all the le they could ever want. It would be so disappointing if you collected all pieces of the set, reached level 100, and realized that you're essentially a slow tank with low overall damage, no walk speed bonus, poison, or any of that, and that's just so disappointing.

 

Are there going to be any changes to how health regen works? Currently health regen doesn't work when you're constantly hit by mobs, and hence you have to use it in off combat.

That's why I feel Guardian is such a bad spear when comes to fighting like wars or LI.

 

Presumably that will be fixed eventually, but that's a programming problem that doesn't really have anything to do with the item team.

 

probs cuz guardian is shit and no explanation is needed for it

you also have to give alka credit for its hybrid potential. Being a Super Slow weapon from the start is nice, especially with Galleon

 

https://wynndata.tk/s/5cDBLW hey this is p r e t t y c o o l also glassy (low sp, -ws, idk) also 1xa6, but it's just 2le ee