Info Item Team Thread - Item/ingredient/major Id Changes, Updates & More (updated 28/03/2020)

do the new mana ids also mean the mana cost doesnt go up the more you use the spell?

 

I am here to ask for a heavy melee buff. I feel as if obsidian framed helmet is under powered and heavy melee has always been bad other than stinger but archer melee is kind of a meme too. Other things that are wanted are heavy melee weapons with have very high base damages and to prevent tierstack abuse a healthy number of -tiers. Make Heavy Melee Great.

 

Right now from what I've seen from -100%+ cost yes. That's why I'm wondering if it's intentional or not because they essentially do the same thing

 

Raw cost and % cost do both decrease or increase, it's just slightly different like raw spell and raw melee. No reason not to have them both, really.

 

Thanks for the clarification, if it works like spell or melee instead of hpr it makes sense. However, balance-wise, is it a good idea to put extremely high cost reduction on main damage skills for items such as cata? With movement on idol or werp I can see it being okay, but tripling the damage output of cata seems unbalanced.

On a side note, I've noticed that repeated spells with cost reduction do not increase in cost. How is this calculated?

Edit: I've tested warp and it seems like raw cost is calculated with (cost of spell - raw spell) as I was able to get my tps to cost more than 1 mana after 70 or so successive teleports. However, I still don't understand how % cost works, if its (cost of spell - cost of spell*% cost) then you should only be able to spam a couple of times off -100%

 

For raw cost, the reduction is additive with the increasing spell cost penalties - hence why you can spam charge/teleport with idol/warp. I don't know the details of how it works - someone will have to test it (not me because I don't own any items with cost modifiers).

 

Yes, I just tested it, note the edit I just made. I found that to be as expected, but % cost should not make spells spammable at only -100% or so

 

Yeah, I'm not sure how % works either. I'd say test various thresholds, if possible - the difficulty is of course in obtaining such items.

 

My theory is it takes the cost of a spell INCLUDING the penalties and factors that into the equation (cost - cost*%) rather than the cost of the spell before penalties. Hence the infinite spins. Would be good to test if anyone has a cata lying around. Add this to the pile ;)) @Poprony we need ur cata

 

Yeah, that seems in line with what Xavier mentioned on Discord about Warp. However, I don't know exactly where the %cost is applied - before or after the raw cost, for example, and before or after penalties.

 

A guildmate with idol tested it and the cost of charge is 1 mana regardless of how many times its used. The cost of other spells after using charge a bunch of times goes up though. Seems like a glitch?

 

That seems intentional.

 

To put that on cata though? If its not a glitch, then a major oversight.

 

There are even more broken ID changes than that. Just look at Pure.

 

I haven't seen pure in action yet so I can't talk about that change... seems like a lot of balancing issues that need to be sorted out

In summary - negative % cost greater than 100% seems to give infinite spells, while raw cost is added after penalties

 

Frankly, even if cost reduction % were to not apply to penalties. Cataclysm would still be completely broken, it's like the assasin tweaks were made for cata users, you can run a 0 INT build with cata without any need for Mana regen since you can reset the chain after 2 spin attacks with 1 manacost vanishes, (boosting the next spin by 70% almost giving you a 3rd spin in damage)? <- assuming vanish damage boost applies to spells.

It feels like there was some form of disconnect when they decided to nerf strati, and then decided to seemingly make cataclysm the strongest mythic to ever exist.

 

At least cata lore is now 100% correct :p

 

https://wynndata.tk/s/59qzly yeet

 

What do you need the mana regen for? cataclysm makes spins free.

 

Opinion on mythic changes:

Warchief

Good. Very good even. Sucks that most people who got godly ones will have to pray for good IDs though

Slayer

not a fan of this at all, the only reason people bought slayer is to pretty much use it with fatal, for the very good SP and the very high thunder + walkspeed

in my opinion the current slayer is fine

Galleon

Nice changes, cant say more

Sabs

Nobody really will use them, the tiny damage boosts matter a lot and now that they are gone this is just a statue with tons of sp and sp req that can actually let you move.

Imo spell and melee should be brought back, otherwise theres no point in using sabs


Strati

No comment, was very boring for me, and I guess it's kind of worse now but not totally. Godly ones won't lose value

Grandmother

I like this, I'm not sure about this (very) big damage buff but the agi and hpr changes are cool

Freedoom

Thanks for not leaving rainbow in the dark :gay:

Ignis

Good changes

Az

sure, I'm guessing this and/or ignis wil have a major id since rest of the other bows don't. (probably az tho since ignis got a pretty nice buff)



Nirvana

not really sure on these changes, it lost some spell damage and all raw spell and also has -ms now, but base damage was increased and it got a major ID. altho, the major ID will hurt concentration...

Grim

No comment, but it looks like it's even better for hybrid now

Cata

Ngl this is kinda absurd, but cata could use a buff considering it's state (even tho it was most popular mythic dagger), but i'm not sure this was the right buff lol

Weathered

Don't like the damage nerf, seems unnecessary
major id is very cool, but I think ms should be gone in exchange for more neutral, air or air dmg%. Super fast with MS.. Big no, no reason to use atlas with air when vortex exists

Nulli

Thanks, I like every single thing about this, my 4/4 nulli may shine

Archangel

No comment

Collapse

Still don't think this was the right buff, in my eyes it should have less RNG but i have never touched anything other than idol and alka so wouldn't know.

Thrunda

Very good buffs, it might be a little too good though.

Idol

I have to say that I rly enjoyed flying on hero beta with idol. Good changes

Alka

I'm really not a fan of the -sp at all, it feels so out of the place. Current alka is ok, walkspeed and agi just needed to be buffed very slightly (still negative but lower values).

Guardian

No comment, overall ok change I guess

Hero

No comment, (strength req gone is cool tho)

Apoc

No comment

Fatal

This should be in my biased section but Im not a fan of these changes, fatal's rng is still really annoying.

Singu

slight dmg nerf is fine since singu is pretty absurd on damage, sp req changes are very good. unsure why you guys felt the need to give it so much int but I'm guessing you wanted to do it with literally every rainbow mythic considering they all have +15 to +65 one SP too... and rainbow mythic relik will be dex

Monster

-INT gone is very, very good. MS and LS are really, really random, and I am not a fan of the +heal cost. LS and/or MS can be gone to remove that, and the damage was slightly nerfed for some reason too

Lament

Shoule be in biased section but not much was changed, there's less conversion and more water now which is cool and water dmg was increased, and considering how heal was changed too, my lament is doing 5k heals in beta is very epic

Pure

I think this (major id) is going to make pure somewhat viable on end game, (a few people are already buying pure) but the rest of the wands are still.. better lol.






Now to my biased opinions (lol)

Spring

I've said this a few times already but even though the damage was buffed I still don't think this was a buff.

Lower MR, HPR gone and STR req gone is understandable.

More damage is definitely understandable but +shield and +storm costs is just very very bad. I rather not have -bomb and also not have +shield and +storm

And also the dmg range is like 460-730 or something like that now (after powders), if you look at the rest of the water mythics the range difference is like 40 at worst, while spring is 300.. makes your main spell inconsistent.

All spring needed was a nerf to neutral damage but a good buff to water damage so not only is the overall damage increased but conversion is lowered.



Divzer

There isn't much to say, I'm not happy that you can't even defend yourself unless you use crafteds or just stack morph or i dont even know, but then again with the archer buff I'm hitting 4 enemies and getting 6k health back so that's ok. Surprised damage wasn't nerfed, but then again storm got destroyed so.

Gaia

sPelL gAIa

I'm not sure why the neutral and earth damage were nerfed but gaia still has okay DPS.
I'm slightly triggered by the fact that it has -melee% now, it's just ugly and out of place. Please just keep it with the +melee% it currently has.

Inferno

This might seem like a buff but it's actually not. If you put the new inferno with any fire build then put the current inferno you'll see a difference of around 650-1000 spin damage. (current inferno has higher damage if that's not clear)

For those of you who might say that inferno hybrid is better now it's literally not. It does the exact. same. melee dps damage

Like literally, just put them in a build and see. somehow current inferno with fast attack does THE SAME damage as new inferno. But the current inferno is better for melee because of higher base.

Who cares about inferno melee tho, current inferno is okay but base damage should be increased to like 430-490 and that's it. It's fine otherwise, really.

Warp + Boreal

saved the best for last

I'm happy with some of the changes.

Let's start with Warp - Warp buffs are amazing, incredible even. The slight damage nerf is not gonna be noticable since meteor is going from 400% to 500%, and warp already does a good amount of damage.

Tp spam is very cool, and well I guess since it's warp you guys "nerfed" the heal by making it more costy - but it's still fine because heal got a huge buff on first tick.

Now for boreal, I'm really not happy at all that you can't use it with warp anymore. I should probably make a section for all boots or whatever, i didnt mention it because its not as bad as ele revamp but I still think the SP reqs for boots are very annoying, and this is coming from someone who has and used all of them.

Boreal was just that thing you could slap with literally any air weapon because it only has agi req. It's main reason of existence is to go with warp, there's no reason to change that.

It's also like I use galleon in my freedom build, or I can use sabs in an inferno build, or slayer fatal.

I just feel like all the mythic boots other than warchief are just not gonna see any use at all.