Info Item Team Thread - Item/ingredient/major Id Changes, Updates & More (updated 28/03/2020)

Feel like elysium engraved is overshadowed

 

nice, already gave my opinions in the discord, but I like it

 

Still dislike the overshadow between Gaea-Hewn and Eden-Blessed, but it looks better now with the 325hpr on EBG so I won't question it further.

 

In what way? Elysium is built off the back of two defensive SPs whereas Twilight is built off of two offensive SPs. ETA and EFA builds have distinct differences in health and elem defences with EFA (the more defensive melee build) has much more of, with ETA leaning towards much more damage at the cost of survivability.

Could you expand on what you mean by this a bit more?

 

I get that Elysium is defensive but the problem is the amount of “archetype” tierstack items usable with Elysium. The damage difference between Elysium and Twilight is huge even though twilight still has agility. Twilight has access to many great tierstack items making superslow tierstack possible. Centipede and breezehands are now not usable together with elysium, leaving only a max tierstack of 2 with for example horizon, accel or burnout. Stacking fast attackspeed weapons doesn’t give you even half the dps you can reach with twilight.
Edit:Note that i don’t take account of any possible unknown new tierstack items.

 

I talked about this more in the Master Hive discussion, but essentially my concern for Eden-Blessed was that its health regen was rivalled so closely by Gaea-Hewn yet it lacked so much damage potential in comparison. It was almost as if it were being outclassed, if not at least overshadowed in role. Even in its own category, a rare item like The Golem would've been a superior option for the defensive build I intended to use Eden-Blessed in, so I felt its stats didn't merit its status as a Master Hive armour.

edit: got the quotes wrong way round

 

Yeah, we made the Tier/Mana feedback thread to gather feedback on things like this and we do have some changes we'd want to make regarding it in the future. That being said, let's talk currently.

EFA isn't currently designed to be a tier stackable option, but mainly focusing on existing faster speeds with limited tier stacking option to be combined with powerful raw melee options such as Shawl to make up the majority of its damage. And yeah, you're right in saying that Twilight does have part agility, but it doesn't have the health comparable to Elysium. Stacking both defensive skill points has strong defensive synergy in and of itself whereas banking on agility is less reliable in terms of survivability.

The regeneration of Gaea-Hewn doesn't necessarily rival Eden-Blessed due to the massive % regen it has to back it up as well. The recent changes separated the two out much more defensively while slightly knocking down Gaea's damage. I don't feel like it's necessarily a fair comparison because the massive elemental defences are being overlooked here completely, same with the % regen. Gaea will naturally have more damage as it incorporates strength and Eden will be naturally more elementally (not health) defensive than Gaea could ever reasonably reach. The Golem also has a lot more negatives (water damage for heals and cutting off the option for water itself, and massive walk speed downside) for honestly not comparable upsides. Eden-Blessed beats it in health, raw elemental defences, % elemental defences, mana regeneration, raw regen, % regen (which golem completely lacks) and a much more forgiving set of requirements depending on the build. The only way I'd say The Golem would be better is if you overlook a majority of EBG's upsides.

 

This is true now; The Golem had a niche through its higher health regen prior to the recent buff to Eden-Blessed. also i never play mage so the water damage thing didn't occur to me, you have a point there

After trying to piece hpr builds I've found that %hpr is quite negligible in comparison to raw. The +50% isn't an automatic 1.5x multiplier, but rather it scales off of the raw hpr, which doesn't usually surpass 1k unless you're dedicating your entire build to that one stat alone. And on a more standard build, the value of the %hpr is even less, failing to net you more than a couple hundred overall hpr at most.

I understand the argument regarding natural skill point investments but I still disliked the lack of identity Eden-Blessed seemed to carry pre-buff. It still looked like a weaker Gaea.

 

It'd be pretty neat if we could make use of fast-initial in ETA and slow-initial in EFA though. For example, ETA having more powerful tier boosters (Twilight being a great example) and damages (percent, which to some extent already exists, with stuff like Tera - and raw, which doesn't really exist in ETA) that are limited into ETA either by ET reqs or Def penalties, while still allowing EFA to access a full range of weaker tier boosters and damage options*. This would bring a greater variety of playstyles into both types, and also reduce the usage of the same few tier options or raw options for every situation.

 

corsair gaming headpiece

 

Ah attack tier, I still wish attack tier (+tier) was attack speed (+%)
even attack time (+sec) or attack frequency (+1/sec) would help.
It would have made balancing those types of items so much easier...

 

How would attackspeed % work?

 

Well really how you think it would, you attack 50% faster with 50% attack speed and 50% slower with -50%
I know it does not work like that and would be difficult to change, but I can dream right?
It may need some caps on the max/min speed you can reach though...

 

I think the problem with Elysium is that you are very limited to +tier, and fire tierstack is only pretty much seen in Apoc and Flameshot

both being super-slow, you would prefer having +6 tier and that's impossible with elysium's -30 dex, since the only 2 helmets require dex. you could use horizon and battle dancer but that's literally all you've got

the simple solution is adding a helmet (could be a rare or legendary or , more preferably a dungeon reward.) that has +tier and is for fire

this could be it, if its a dungeon reward:



if it's a chest item: (slightly changed just because I feel like it)

https://wynndata.tk/ci/830754422

 

There's no need to add something with a Def req. Simply having E/A and E/T options for +tier is sufficient to allow access to +tier of varying powers without incentivizing quadslap.

 

I guess ill give my opinion on each of these now that i've had time to mess around with them.

Boreal-Patterned Crown: https://www.wynndata.tk/ci/556493192
Nerf the raw spell its way to much when stacked with everything else. In the current meta anima is insanely powerful because of its high damage output with +thunder defense. This is basicly anima with raw spell. AND ALOT OF IT. Its very difficult to out damage with most items and even crafteds can't really out damage this item.
https://wynndata.tk/s/hriel0 like sine+boreal crown+idol is a 13k uppers with all that damage and thats just TWO ITEMS.
okay im done...but i do love this item :))

Obsidian-Framed Helmet: https://www.wynndata.tk/ci/888115413
Honestly I think this item in itself is fine but until melee all around gets rebalanced will remain on the weaker side. you could increase defense and hp or whatever but personally all id do is maybe increase lifesteal a bit but overall the item is solid but relies on the balance of other non tier stack items.

Anima-Infused Cuirass: https://www.wynndata.tk/ci/839929828
a little more raw spell pls <3 thx

Elysium-Engraved Aegis: https://wynndata.tk/ci/887605978
This item is VERY EPIC kek next

Twilight-Gilded Cloak: https://wynndata.tk/ci/249989243
This item is even more EPIC than the last. At first i thought it was broken but as ive been messing around with it I think its really only op with earth weapons like alka. idk what could really be done to make it weaker with earth but leave it as is for thunder and air.

Abyss-Imbued Leggings: https://www.wynndata.tk/ci/444136437
Imo the raw spell on this is fine to me and really makes earth spell as well as earth/water spell better...id maybe add a little more mana steal to it and take some of the raw spell away for the item to kinda shine with its own playstyle.

Chaos-Woven Greaves: https://wynndata.tk/ci/561685595
BRAINWASH & BRACE OF THE F*CKING NINTH BOISSS!!!
I honestly love this item so much, not because its overpowered but because its versatile. this item can basically be used for anything within this elemental triangle and I love it. Realistically the item itself could maybe use a buff as abyss leggings are generally better. But this item fits its elemental triangle perfectly and I congratulate you on that :))

Eden-Blessed Guards: https://wynndata.tk/ci/758742708
one word...erm actually three. Boreal spell warrior.
this item is really awesome as hpr is a newer playstyle due to the somewhat recent hpr changes so I cannot wait to see how I can utilize these.

Gaea-Hewn Boots: https://www.wynndata.tk/ci/765209279
meh these just seem "alright" to me. nothing really great or bad about them. I tend to think these boots wont really be used due to it being overwhelmingly defensive in ways mythic boots outshine it (yeah i know not everyone can afford mythic boots) But like I dunno. maybe the raw defenses on this one should be buffed? I'd personally change the spell on this one to raw also.

Hephaestus-Forged Sabatons: https://www.wynndata.tk/ci/273527194
Compared to gaea i think these are really strong. Not totally the strongest of the hive armors but also fairly well balanced. Personally in most builds id pick this over the obsidian helm in that heavy melee style (this is a cry for help to buff heavy melee) but overall these seem really good. great in certain types of builds and very hybrid build friendly, something else i hope to see more of.

overall I like these items I tend to think some could use some changes but overall I like them. one thing I do think could be changed on all of them is the -sp. I know its now 40 reqs instead of 50 but I personally think that changing the -sp from -30 each to -25 each (or even -20 but that might be to good) would work as it would give better freedom to use low requirement items outside of the hive armor's elemental triangle without actually totally breaking everything. My three thoughts are
1: low req skill point items like factile or rainbow like nebulous.
2: The ability to use weapons with stupid requirements like gales force having 20 dex for no damn reason.
3: quad element? cause realistically that could be intresting.
But really these items are actually super awesome and while ill miss my current anima these changes are going to be great!

I do have another suggestion though. Add more elemental items to hive shops as I think having multiple elemental items could really compliment these new items as well as just new items are always cool.

 

It's pretty ironic that city merchant items are designed to be a lot weaker than typical identifiables, even though it's probably easier to find or cheaper to buy the identifiables because of the market.

 

I'm sure everyone is busy with the hero beta or talking about it so we're not going to release any fancy additional stuff for now. Here's the changes to mythics made for this update. This list does not include major IDs.

 

New mythic changes look cool af overall, haven't actually analyzed them yet.