Info Item Team Thread - Item/ingredient/major Id Changes, Updates & More (updated 28/03/2020)

Exploding just needs a rework to be more useful. The damage should be higher (also does exploding still trigger life steal 100% of the time?)
Collapse doesn't have enough rainbow support to work well and also being an offensive weapon doesn't work well with warrior. Thrunda, Idol, and Hero all deal similar damage without these drawbacks (the latter two of which even give buffs to sustainability in mana and hpr) While Collapse on paper should be the strongest the warrior class itself doesn't work with it. Rainbow needs alot more support and I would hope that future -spell cost and non water mana items will help that. Currently Collapse is bad it just doesn't work well enough with the class. Perhaps more rainbow items being added to the game would be appropriate before tweaking collapse in all fairness.

This confuses me on so many levels

 

Okay so Hero just became actually remotely useful

 

But hero is really gud...

 

i mean it's major ID
was basically useless until now

 

Still useless to me given I use a hero boreal build xD

 

Air Earth Hero Rage Abuse

 

When fighting the eye

 

Ur right ... Now I need a hero ._.

 

Noone has done a EO with the NEW Pandi, I wish for this task to be completed

 

I would like to give a personal thank you for making torrential tide good again <3

EDIT: Here is just my feedback on every change I've tested in this patch in this spoiler

Spoiler: EARTH AIR WATER IS HOT

Every mythic boot change seems nice, granted im not a fan of the -moon tower ws but whatever. Looking from here I think the only three I question the balance of are Galleon, Crusade, and Resurgence. Galleon I feel needs just a little something more to really set itself apart from other options in earth/water builds as while its good, it doesn't feel absolutely great. Crusade feels somewhat similar as while I understand that its a pair of skillpoint boots primarily, they just don't feel really good in most builds in all honesty but I myself don't really know how i'd change them from here. My last thought is on Resurgence, Y'all realize you basically destroyed the economy right? These while absolutely awesome NEED a non mythic substitute asap because the paywall this is locked behind is so utterly insane it just shouldn't be in the game.

As for other mythic changes Hadal might have gotten a little bit overnerfed but it's not as id dependent and I think that's nice. Honestly I don't really think Mythic reliks need to be touched aside from olympic until shaman hopefully gets changed because currently spell shaman is quite weak and shaman is just a weak class.

in other changes the ornate set seems needed, Personally I think the raw all the way to 200 instead of like 250 is a bit harsh but with how easy it was and really still is to slap I understand. The nighthawk changes are also a really nice change because I think they make the helm actually balanced yet still really good.

Going to legendaries I like the changes to Pisces, Libra, Rainbow sanc, Orange Lily, and Pandemonium. All these items feel like they fit what they are supposed to be used for better, and orange lily is now balanced.
There are however a few changes Id like the pick at. First being Conflagrate, you know a ton of people use this in fire spell right? I dunno this change just seems kinda stupid to me because grillface already exists and is generally the better option in fire/air and I would say still is.
Anima I already have complained but will do so again. It really should have 2/4 mana regen instead of a -1 2nd spell because two classes can't even make use of that id and being a spell spam style plate I see little reason to use it with that in mind over aqua. That being said I get its also a very tanky item but I just don't think it does as good a job filling its spell spam role now.
I also think these changes to Cryoseism and Royal hydrangea are steps in the right direction for shaman...still cannot understand how Crimson didn't get buffed tho...However I think shaman as a class needs alot of rebalancing when it comes to spells but I understand that's not entirely the item team's job.
Also the torrential tide changes. I just wanted to separate this from the first because I think the design for this item is amazing. This is one of the few items in the game that has 1 powder slot that I think utilized that drawback correctly. The high damage of this weapon with the drawback of no curse, and alot of -damages, and -thunder def works super well and now non crafted water archer is viable again! so 10/10 there!

For rares I like alot of what seems to be getting changed. I noticed that earth/water seems to have gotten alot of support this patch and I think that's really cool and infact my newest hunter build is going to be water/earth! Not to many changes in particular stood out to me however there where a few. I like sprintguard becoming basically the first non reworked item to have -spell cost %s. Seismosoul and Leviathan seem interesting and I think open alot of potential for more +tier w/e/a and w/e/t builds.
Sempiternel also seems really nice now and seems to be shaping up to be the boreal substitute. Personally I think the % regen should be pushed a little higher but really this is quite cool to see.
Big F for Arkhalis and big overnerf as most anticipated

With uniques the changes all just seemed really kind of random. Aquamarine looks really neat though and Azurite also looks like a nice vacuum alt. Resolve seems intresting but with sprintguard will probably be useless. Sapphire also stands out as a nice pair of earth/water boots to pair with abyss leggings. Lastly Anvil Crawler looks really fun for heavy melee assassin.

TLDR: Nice changes overall for the most part I like it. And the Earth spell support is outstanding as well as the first steps to fire/air/thunder support. Also why did you guys throw stealing on so many earth/water items? Are we supposed to old keepers slap cause I totally 110% don't not not promise I was doing that.

From here do you guys have any plans on changes to alot of endgame weapons, an aspect which can often feel a bit overlooked. Currently I personally would love to see alot of changes to legendary spears (make alot more tanky) and also buffs to thrunda ripsaw and ivory.
Oh and I just want to say by posting item concepts I'm not in anyway trying to undermine you guys as I think you are doing a great job. This is just my suggestion compilation after playing warrior awhile and dicking around on wynndata too much.

Spoiler: Yeah I totally didn't make a bunch of concept shitposts at 3am

Tidebinder: Give back 4/4, Add major id: Whirlpool: Bash now sucks in targets and only does knockback on second hit. This would allow for crowd control which fits this tanky spear, and makes upper canceling more interesting.

The Forsaken: Change -mr from -¾ to -2/4 and mana steal from ¾ to 4/4 for better reward for use over infidel or tide. Defenses are untouched to lock into a/t/w. Currently in my opinion the damage doesn't feel high enough for a mana steal weapon as, with mana steal being as inconsistent as it is, the reward feels a bit lacking. However with mana changes I have here I'd imagine the tradeoff would at least be better. (https://wynndata.tk/ci/389642652 )

Harwrol: Increase thunder and fire defs to roll 15-65% and give a %hpr id to allow for better usage in t/a/e and f/a/e, remove % melee and add raw melee to work better with both as well. (https://wynndata.tk/ci/821784715 )

Bedruthan: Spell and Melee from 12 to 15 base (5-20). Mana steal max 3/4, +earth defense (https://wynndata.tk/ci/762155449 ) Bedruthan is warrior's earth spell spear but with the addition of the new dungeon item from CUR bedruthan needs something to distinguish itself, especially given it doesn't feel to great compared to alot of other legendary spears.

Ignition: Idk what to do with this one cause for real this spear needs alot of help as it doesn't seem to have a purpose. Ignition currently doesn't do a good job at being a tank weapon, or a spell weapon, or a melee weapon. It just feels like every fire oriented id except hpr was slapped onto a spear. I feel like a damage increase with some hpr could help solve some of these issues but there is alot of potential.

Wick major id: Discharge: When holding shift with uppercut second hit now deals additional damage at the cost of 10% your hp. This isn't just me pulling some random gimik major id out of my ass to add to a weapon. It's because with The Forsaken and Quinque existing, and this weapon being an annoying grind to get, I feel like something new and unique would really make this weapon pop! especially given it's damage is generally inferior to quinque and its usually just as glassy (unless its made t/w/a instead of t/e/w like some Quinque builds but then its just agility stacking its still glassy.)

Infidel: maybe increase damage slightly...?, maybe increase mana steal to 3/4. Honestly infidel just struggles with normal rng issues.

Quinque, Zephra and Proxima I think are the only spears I wouldn't really change right now. They do what they are made to and they do it very well.

Tisaun’s proof: rework the damn thing…

Thrundaripsaw: https://wynndata.tk/ci/410833980 damage increase and +agility. Make this more hybrid weapon that works with t/a/w or t/w/f to make it different from black (damage could use tweeks)

Ivory: Change 3/4ms to 4/4mr

Yeah most of those weapons I put there are just random ideas I think are neat and notes I take for when I post suggestions and rants here.
However also just rare and unique weapons what is to be done with them? Currently only a small handful of rares are endgame viable and a small enough amount of unique for me to count on one hand.

AAAAAANNNNDDDD i'm done. e/w/a is very epic!


EDIT THREE DAYS LATER: I actually was messing around with the wrong custom torrential tide damage values...didn't realize until now. I think now its more balanced...maybe could use one more little damage buff idk

 

Tag me when patch notes are out

 

There is 1.19.4 notes...

 

is that my build? :o
sell me boreal pls

 

anima is absolutely fine even without mana regen. this is one of the many types of things which must be tested or simulated via math in a realistic scenario.
twf already has a relative surplus of mana on its own, coming from both mana regen, and mana steal. this, along with the -spell costs, gives anima more than enough supporting power to up the strength of a build immensely. additionally, access to 1 mana spells also means that the player isnt required to build as much regen in the first place. one could slot in more damage, more hp, etc.
basically, anima is absolutely fine without regen.

royal still sucks and nobody can convince me otherwise. i will drag this item down into the dark depths of my soul and purge it until it becomes nothing more than a forgotten memory in the game files. this item will be deleted from the world, just as it should be. this item is worse than climate change please just get rid of this piece of shi-

https://wynndata.tk/s/ebzjt0 not... high enough....... damage..........

https://wynndata.tk/s/luispm since it's got an extra tier over diaminar, you can mix some raw melee into it for more damage

forsaken restricts the player into twa pretty hard with emphasis on stealing, while quinque lacks a powder special, and therefore chain lightning, which is extremely good for long term sustain. wick is pretty flexible, able to fit into raw melee stack, tfa spell tank, twa, etc.

rng issues dont exist
rng issues dont exist

as a ripsaw main it's honestly not that bad at all and since it's pure thunder, it's far more flexible than black, and is built fairly differently. to be exact, i use etw ripsaw, which can more or less consistently nopot the eye.

 

I've found I personally had a hard time building high mana with t/f as my main focuses and have to invest heavily in intel. And also I feel like having a -2nd spell that two classes can't really take advantage of is kinda annoying. However the part of it being a spell spam plate still is true as I have found that it allows me to reach 1 1 2 2 or 1 1 1 1 in builds and allow for spell spamming with 7mr or spell cycling with 5mr. I'll admit that as I've used it more I can see that the plate is still really strong but it just doesn't feel like an elemental first choice as opposed to other hive master items to me because I generally will opt for medis or stillwater over it.

I'm the same as you but with Crimson. I never said royal is good....cause its still utterly terrible, but its now a little better than before...

I suddenly feel like an idiot cause somehow I couldn't push it past about 15.5k...Thanks for informing me

While this seems quite cool and I like the build the weapon feels like it works well in so few builds especially rainbow tank which I would like with warrior. But I suppose with a bit more fire tier stack support this is an improvement, I still am personally not happy with it.

Forsaken can (not saying does xD) work with w/f/a quite well but I do agree that its ment to be t/w/a. Quinque to me is just warrior's glass cannon weapon and is quite powerful. Wick I just wish had something more unique about it, cause while its good, it doesn't stand out to me while playing it.

On warrior this is generally untrue unfortunately. I use an rng kinda build on archer and can hit between 1.5k and 24k bombs. In this build because arrow bomb is a lower risk spell and I got so much range hitting a minimum damage bomb doesn't hurt me. With warrior having to get up really close to land uppers you are at a much higher risk of getting killed and unless you can upper cancel 100% consistently this will be reoccurring issue for you. I have found much greater success in using Tidebinder over Infidel simply because of the consistency. However I do understand how this could be more of a warrior oriented problem than an Infidel problem.

I'm quite interested on this one because in my attempt to use a ripsaw build I felt the damage was just to low to solo li (died in gold) and that with the existance of black it just doesn't feel like a great choice. I understand that one weapon being better than another doesn't mean the weak one needs a buff but given that thrunda and black are generally used similarly it just feels like they should be similarly balanced.

 

ETF tierstack no ws meh lifesteal... wtf is this cursed build

(Quinque can do the same thing with double the damage btw)

 

So, any plan on making Sorcery playable? Or will you still have it mess up the clicking combos and vanish spell?

 

It's sad the sorcery a "big major id" is instead seen as a drawback to using timerift which has alot of damage

 

https://wynndata.tk/i/Brace+of+the+Ninth
as I was messing around in game with water build I realized this spear lacks any real use now outside of brainwash water builds...which you need to reevaluate your life if you are doing that. So what if it was bumped up to legendary tier, was given more reflection (used to have 100% but if that's too high then at least more) and then given the transcendence major id just to make the spear have more use and feel rewarding as an endgame dungeon item.

 

You'd have to ask the people who do the coding about that, and dev time is almost always at a premium.

 

Given 1.19 has been out for awhile now and shaman has had alot of time to develop builds I wanted to rant again on reliks however alot of the balances are nice and much better than before. Regardless here's the spoiler.

Spoiler: rant warning TRIGGER WARNING

The End, The Watched, Conference call, Lower, Overdrive, and Procrastination all feel fine to me so yay!
these are ordered as least to most need of changes in my opinion also :>

Loaded Question personally I think could use a small increase in damage to make up for its -10 intel and -15 defense as a max raw spell/max thunder hits as hard as confernce call but conference call doesn't have these drawbacks. However being level 90 I could see this weapon as being high enough above baseline to not ened a change.

Salpinx again a not as important buff/nerf needed but to me compaired to other mana steal weapons I can help but feel this weapon needs a slight increase in damage just because of how gimicky it is. Then again with that -3rd spell cost I can understand why that would not be a change.

Arbalest feels just a little to strong in w/t/e builds to me given it is a level 87 weapon. I don't really think lowering the damage would be a good thing because in w/a/e and w/f/e it feels great. Maybe just further reducing the -dex from like -12 to maybe -20 or -25 would make the weapon feel more level 87ish?

Cryoseism's id nerf was needed but personally I think the base was hit a littl to hard being an offensive spell weapon. However like Arbalest its not a big deal.

Inferna Flamewreath feels really interesting in concept but all around not good at all. Auras are really low damage compared to most other legendary reliks topping in most decent builds around 8.5k compared to 9.5-10k+ on most other reliks, granted it is a fire relik but that gets to my next point. The -raw spell doesn't really work that well in any sort of water spell build because the defense req is so high its as if you have a 50 defense req and no -spell costs and can invest 30 extra points in intel. While you can build this more with fire spell without water to take advantage of this there isn't any reason to use inferna over conference call or loaded question, all of which out class it in almost every way. The -hpr and -water damages are just stupid because now you can use this relik to deal low damage and not be able to heal as much as even freaking thunder builds. All around this relik is just lackluster and needs a bit of a buff to really work as a fire relik. In my opinion a buff to the -water damage, a damage increase, and in my opinion most importantly a requirement decrease could really help this weapon be a better late/endgame option.

Royal Hydrangea is just a meme item at this point and its all around just terrible. I feel like the only way to make this weapon not horrible is not nuking the heals and making the fact you don't have access to curse an actually worthy tradeoff in some way. the weapon's concept seems really neat but it just is bad right now. I would maybe suggest walkspeed and possibly one powder slot for it? I don't entirely know but right now this weapon is basically useless even with the 1.19.4 buff.

Crimson...oh boyyyyy. I want to love this item and will fight for it until the grave. With full t6 fire powders this thing is outdamaged by just about everything. The damage is crap. The life steal is a really neat addition but doesn't make up for the damage. The defenses are really cool but doesn't make up for that damage. The health regen is also really cool but doesn't make up for the damage. Personally the way I would buff this is add a water damage % id and increase base fire damage so the damage all around is increased to a point that is actually viable.