Info Item Team Thread - Item/ingredient/major Id Changes, Updates & More (updated 28/03/2020)

Something I noticed in that changelog is that the -costs for Anima-Infused Cuirass are not present

 

This is a problem with wynntils

 

Ah, thanks. Noted.

 

Soooooooooooo can we bring back weekly discussions and perhaps one on major ids and how to implement them?

 

Since it's a thing now I guess I'll give my thoughts on the mythic boots (putting off Reliks for later once I've actually built with them).

Warchief looks good, and works well. I especially like the higher elemental damages so it has spell use as well as melee, although I do think it could do with a bit more spell power (somewhat of an ETW problem as a whole).

Galleon is neat I guess. Very situational but the water damages are nice so it's no longer as one note.

Crusade Sabatons is in the unfortunate position of being a skill point booster with high reqs. It has no other relevant stats besides skillpoints and health, unfortunately.

Revenant feels really nice - the big problem with it is that it's a mythic item that trades percent for raw, and if you're using mythic boots you're almost certainly using a mythic weapon too. I do think it could do with less of that trade-off. (and still kind of sad that it doesn't have sprint stats)

Stardew is kind of strange, in the same way it doesn't have a ton of good options due to being raw-focused. Maybe with Fatal or Lament, but Mana steal mage is a little ehh because of the dps cap that meteor imposes - dps-optimal building tends to leave you very rng-prone.

Dawnbreak is cool, even if I kind of dislike how it's a heavy damage option despite being TF.

Slayer is conceptually my favorite of the mythic boots by far - I love the way the design allows for utility in all three overlapping tri-combos. However, I do agree that it's a bit wea - especially in spell. I think the supposed weakness in tierstack melee is partially because players don't tend to build Dex and Agi focus in tierstack, but that's to a significant extent because there aren't many good tierstack options in those slots (hey what if Sunstar was Very Slow...) alongside the lack of non tierstack damage boosters - no point using a Fast weapon in ETA if there isn't corresponding non-tier damages boosters that don't target the much tankier EFA or TFA.

Resurgence looks nice but suffers greatly from the weakness of health regen as a whole. Although, even aside from that the damage penalty is a bit much imo.

Moontower is kind of funny - it's a jab at WA play but also an enabling of it. I quite like it, although I think the negative skill points should be a bit lower so it's not as locked into a single playstyle.

Boreal is gamer but again suffers from the weakness of hpr as a whole.

 

I'm curious what makes you say hpr is weak...I've found numerous ways to abuse it.

 

Hpr can be useful if you lean heavily into it, but 10s vs. 4s for lifesteal is massive, especially since ls can proc on multiple mobs. I'm sure you've made builds with 600 lifesteal without huge cost to damage - it's much harder to build 1500 hpr without a big hit to damage.

 

That is true but I sorta feel like ls ti hpr can be like apples to oranges given hpr works better on spell builds where as ls works more for melee or hybrid. And yeah hpr is generally a large sacrifice of damage but (in my opinion) has more survivability than most other types of tank builds when speced with 5k+ hpr and high agility and defenses.

 

i fucking hate royal hydrangea ​

Spoiler: royal hydrangea's stats

basically, 0 slots, basically free totems, high intel and agi
it doesn't seem bad at a first glance, right

hahahahahaha no

here is the (powdered) base dps of all legendary reliks from 90-100:

Spoiler: content moment

[i've got no fucking clue] royal hydrangea, unpowdered (lv. 96): 1057.5 dps
[offensive] loaded question, 3 T6 powders--it's a thunder weapon (lv. 90): 1173.35 dps
[defensive] crimson, 4 W6 powders--real curse moment (lv. 91): 891.75 dps
[offensive] inferna flamewreath, 2 F6 powders--it's a fire weapon (lv. 93): 959.4 dps
[balanced] conference call, 2 F6 powders--most people would do this, but i suppose if you're using spellsteal T6 would be better (lv. 94): 1161 dps
[offensive] cryoseism, 3 W6 powders--it's a water weapon (lv. 97): 1050 dps
[offensive] lower, 3 T6 powders--when you've got a low base dps, it's better to try and build it up rather than use damage boosting specials-crimson is an exception because defensive (lv. 99): 915.75 dps
[offensive] infused hive relik, 5 T6 powders--5 slot gang (lv. 100): 1268.75 dps
[defensive] the watched, 3 W6 powders--35% water damage moment (lv. 100): 1152.5 dps
[balanced] the end, 1 E6 powder--you can really do anything here, but since it's an earth air weapon, i just went with earth (lv. 100): 1273.5 dps

and in order from most to least:

Spoiler: content moment part 2

the end: 1273.5 dps
infused hive relik: 1268.75 dps
loaded question: 1173.35 dps
conference call: 1161 dps
the watched: 1152.5 dps
royal hydrangea: 1057.5 dps
cryoseism: 1050 dps
inferna flamewreath: 959.4 dps
lower: 915.75 dps
crimson: 891.75 dps

of the lv. 90-100 legendaries, royal hydrangea is 6th place out of 10 as a weapon that has no powder special, and this doesn't include other non-legendaries that out damage it as well, such as misfit and hardcore

now, the complaints i have about the item itself

1. the damage modifiers
70% spell, -40% water and air
this hurts the damage, the totem heal, and my feelings
i can understand doing this, but i believe hurting the totem's heal in an item like this is totally unnecessary
if anything, at least change the -40% water and air to -40% melee main attack

2. the agility + shaman + -40% water + reflection wackiness
agility: makes you get hit less
shaman: literally takes double the usual damage
-40% water: fucks up your totem heal
reflection: reflects spell damage back to attacker

...
...you have to get hit to use reflection.

3. the -125% totem cost
wow, basically free totems! isn't that nice?
too bad that totem is a spell that's basically never used in quick succession and can't make effective use of its tiny cost




so that's about it guys, thank you so much for watching. don't forget to [REDACTED], comment, and subscribe

 

yeah this and crimson really need buffs right now...

 

I agree that hpr has use on highly tanky builds, but melee builds like EFA are currently starved of health sustain because hpr is so weak. Same with EWF - you're never going to build into the horrible aspect because it's just going to be way too small to matter.

Concur with highbread on Royal Hydrangea. I didn't even list it in my endgame Shaman builds thread.

 

Spoiler: Legendary Relik/Dungeon item thoughts

Legendary reliks


The End: The dps this thing is capable of is kinda crazy. This is one of the few items in the game that lacks access to powder specials but is still really strong. All around for melee shaman this seems like the go to and it also does seem viable for spell to some extent. Regardless the 1 powder slot and -water def seem like perfectly reasonable drawbacks.


Infused hive: Compared to the other hive weapons this honestly feels a little weak but overall is still really powerful compared to most endgame weapons.


The watched: This….THIS RELIK IS EPIC. It’s not even the best relik in my opinion but it seems really fun, tanky, and unique. This weapon utilizes rainbow damage and defenses with healing abilities and feels like a good example of what a rainbow weapon should be.


Lower: low damage and wide rolls are really damn annoying but if you get a -4 aura with decent totem roll you can stack it with anima+dragon eye bracelet and get a ton of aura spam abilities within the 7.5-8.5k damage range while not being a total glass cannon.


Conference call: The poison and lifesteal are really nice as well as the damages. Kinda feels similar to black in a sense but works well for both spell and melee. Addmitingly at first the damage felt a bit low until I started realizing you needed to utilize the lifesteal to make a strong build for it. All around it feels like a nice weapon option.


Royal hydrangea: uhhh why is this a thing? No powders, meh dps and those -damages all just feel so weird on a weapon all for a -125% 1st spell cost (a spell you don’t ever spam) just all around feels kind of weak. An air powdered Cryoseism would be a far superior option for water/air to this item. Yes the +20 agility is nice as well as the 50% reflection but it really doesn’t make up for the mediocre damage and lack of powder specials.


Inferna flamewreath: This relik is just meh in my opinion. I feel like it lacks identity in a sense as I can’t really figure out how ot build it. Building defensively seems not very good because the base damage is quite low to begin with so your damage output compared to a tank build with the watched or infused hive is subpar and the -hpr/totem healing is really annoying to deal with. The fire and spell damage ids feel odd because the weapon itself cannot deal enough damage to really be a good option for a spell damage build when far better damage weapons exist, some also more tanky as well. The -water damage for reduced healing makes no sense because this item isn’t strong enough to need this drawback. A high damage fire item would be absolutely awesome and I think by tweaking alot of the numbers for this item it could be a balanced and fun endgame choice.


Cryoseism: This relik is probably the strongest of the legendary reliks in my opinion. It’s not broken really but I couldn't help but suggest a nerf to the intel boost would make sense so the -spell ids actually have a noticeable effect on the item. All around though this seems like a very fun and versatile spell item.


Overdrive: well this item...seems very unique and fun and frankly is more difficult to abuse than I expected. This item can be abused with melee but also with spell. Overall it’s not quite as powerful as I expected and is extremely dependant on the spell ids leading me to suggest the item is in a perfectly balanced and oddly unique spot as is.


Loaded Question: This item in both spell and melee is honestly quite strong. The spell damage it is capable of seems to eclipse even Cryoseism to my surprise and for being level 90 it’s melee dps is quite impressive as well. The -sp on the item as well as -defenses all seem perfectly fair and also help “discourage” abusing the anima -spell playstyle with it...that doesn’t mean I haven’t xD. All around good item me likey.


Salpinx: So Evereston and I attempted to break this item while on a discord call and found that the 10k+ (no 35% totem boost) auras it was capable of quite surprising. With the drawback of a massive -mana id and a having lifesteal slowly kill you as you acquire mana all makes this item very interesting. Stacked with the -spell costs on the 2nd and 3rd spell, the +21 agility, and 21% air damage I actually really like this item! I think it’s very overlooked and is the air relik people are looking for.

On a side note maybe give this a +2 jump height id…;)


Crimson: Look if this thing was ten levels lower I wouldn’t be here complaining but honestly this thing sucks. A defensive water/fire item seems really cool and as someone who has a very strong charging flame build on my warrior I love the elemental combo. But this...just why? The life steal is nice but if I want life steal and melee im gonna use The End and if I want life steal and spell I’m going to use Conference Call. For health regen I’d probably use an item with damage that isn’t trash and an hp regen armor to get the same effect. For all around defenses I’d just use the watched as to me 25% in all is better than 11%-46% in earth, thunder, and air. If I want water damage I’d use Cryo and if I wanted fire damage I’d use Hive or inferna (even tho inferna is weak it is better than crimson) and if I wanted both damages I’d take one of the above mentioned items and stick powders on it. All around this item to me seems like it could be really really cool in concept but just...fails. To buff this item what I personally would do is increase the fire/neutral base damages, add a water damage %id for totem healing and extra damage, and increase the lifesteal (depending on how much the others would change.) This item is just all around underwhelming and needs alot of tweaking to give it some identity and viability.


Arbalest: Being earth I first tried melee to little success (even tho it has a -%melee id) so then I attempted the earth slap spell build and found, to my suprise, that it actually does quite good damage! 8.5 auras all around feels very nice and as an endgame earth relik this thing seems perfect. For being level 87 I wouldn’t say however it’s overpowered given what items the player would have access to at that level.


Procrastination: I got no idea what this item is but if you stack raw and % spell damages its really powerful. Not a good choice for heavy melee in my opinion cause no quake but a very nice spell weapon and at level 85 seems like it would be a great option to run the hive with.


Island Chain: auras on this are only about 500 less than arbalest and it is 4 levels lower, has three mana regne, and +3250 hp...oh yeah and -1 totem cost. At it’s level it’s very good and endgame it’s actually good but outclassed by Cryo for water and Arbalest in non tanky spell builds for earth. Good weapon? Yes! Good design? Yes! Well balanced? Probably?


Thanos stonesinger: This item actually can work endgame. 7.5k auras (probably could be pushed further) is nothing to laugh at. At level 82 I think it is fairly balanced simply due to the high price and the fact alot of quest/dungeon bosses in this level range can be very powerful. Of course this is not an optimal endgame choice and I would not recommend it but it is strong enough to be used as such if one wanted to..and does more damage than Crimson ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Lumina: DPS CRAZY. If earth/air melee isn’r your thing lumina could be a great option to hit nearly 30k with a tierstack papernuke build! All around at it’s level quite balanced and very good endgame as the player gains more access to tier stack items. Also works nicely for spell at level 80 :p


Every other relik I tested below Lumina in terms of level I found to not be viable for endgame...which is a good thing :) I would like to add that most of the legendary reliks midgame also feel really unique and special making playing this class a real treat.


Also for the CUR and EO dungeon items ig


Gaping Cavity: Seams neat, weird but neat, honestly I have no idea when I would use it but I know when I do it would be really really good...maybe a black build...


Writhing Growth: Gotta love the random numbers here but the item looks amazing and almost feels like it’s a hive item. Being the highest neutral damage item in the game is really cool but having that huge -agility and all those spell cost debuffs seems to balance the item out nicely.


The Exploited: Everyone is saying nerf greed and I must say that probably is a good idea...maybe 10% hp instead? However I love that stealing is now actually an id people can utilize and iI hope to see this major id one a few more items.


The Evolved: This item seems cool and all but I cant help but wonder why you would use this item over stinger. Stinger has about 2/3rds the poison but can hit insanely high quake damages and has better spell damage. This bow just has hp and -1st spell with then a strength buff and it just feels odd. I suppose however it could be a good sidearm on an alka cometflinger build or something.


The Nothing: This item confuses me but I love it. Great for more tanky mage builds.


The Forsaken: Mana steal on warrior is something I personally despise but I cannot deny that this spear is really freaking powerful...and that i'll probably make a build for it in the near future. The damage is kinda crazy and honestly the -defenses are the only thing that really keeps it balanced and makes tidebinder arguably better :3


Kindled Orchid: Weird creative item seems neat for an extra tier at low reqs without horrible drawbacks.


Black Amaranth: uhhhh hey guys this thing actually out-damages bedruthan by a tiny margen...maybe buff bedruthan :D <3

All around a soild earth endgame spear and maybe earth spell warrior can finally take off now that there are two viable choices...


Forest Aconite: huh...very interesting design. How exactly does rainbow spell damage work though?


Orange Lily: Already planning on using this for my next hunter when i get to 100. Very neat item and all around the newest top tier bow choice in my opinion.


Yellow Rose: Not really sure why you would use this weapon beyond tier stacking. However tier stacking might not be great because all those -defense and agility points would just make alot of the sp you invest for the tiers kinda useless. Having strength and intelligence is amazing but with that playstyle judas is simply better. Maybe I am missing something here but honestly this item seems lackluster...


Flashfire set: having +1 tier with two defense accessories is crazy and a game changer as now breezehands+flashfire+flashfire+static=three tiers from accessories.

TLDR: mostly good but alot of slight tweaks to damages and ids and whatnot

 

Missed Dying Lobelia for CUR items... but it's just the highest poison poison-bracelet with rainbow defense.

 

thought that was a boss item? my b :p

 

https://www.wynndata.tk/i/ivory
this is Ivory. This dagger has basically always sucked, and it still does. In 1.18 it was outdamaged by shard of the sky and dancing blade, yes a level 98 unique...The only thing that really kept this weapon somewhat viable was it's mana regen playstyle, something us mana steal haters love on assassin being a class overwhelmed with mana steal weapons.
In 1.19 Ivory receved a few changes. Its damage got buffed by a noticeable amount and its skillpoint requirement got reduced by alot. To top it off it received a larger agility bonus. BUT THEN it got its mana regen id removed and replaced with mana steal. Why? I have no idea. This item now is just as useless as before because slider exists and outclasses it in basically every conceivable way.
https://wynndata.tk/s/jd7z2g
https://wynndata.tk/s/odca4g
Slider vs ivory spell build.
I dunno if this is ment to be a melee item cause if so...pls no its not good there either.
This is my plea

one more xD

 

But with ivory you can have...

uh...

Health regen!
and -poison to annoy your opponents!

Yeah that's totally what people are looking for in an endgame spell damage weapon

(rework pls)

 

Relative to other EFA items it's a decent choice. For spell, it's just not good. Spell conversion screws it over.

 

I actually use Ivory as a defensive secondary, but yeah it’s in desperate need of a buff considering slider exists

 

"Decent" as a legendary kinda means bad. EFA sounds interesting with it tho...

 

I agree that it's not great as a spell option even with the mana, but the mana regen definitely made it interesting as a melee EFA option.