Item Researches And Possible Problem For Archer Mythics.

@motoki1

What a fantastic thread. I just found it and enjoyed reading it. Very well done on comparisons.

I talked with some great wynncraft players, and they all say the same thing: Archer Mythics are simply not worth it and that archer is bad for soloing stuff. They do a lot more damage with their legendary bow builds. They use mythics for other classes, but not archer.

"This should have been a major problem."

It is a mayor problem. Archer fails to compete as an end game character rendering him pointless to use at the end. Why would you spent hours upon hours leveling class and making your build when it's not going to be good? Heck, it's barely decent with mythics and mythics cost a god damn fortune.

"So, is Archer a bad class? It's still viable because of the attack range?"

For soloing stuff, it absolutely is. Attack range is irrelevant in this discussion and let me explain why.
Every character has it's own attacking and defending characteristics. Each attacking/defending characteristic is countered with a negative defending/attacking one. For example, warrior has smaller range but great defending. Mage doesn't do as much damage as an archer, but he has healing. Archer has ranged attacks but no defending capabilities. In order to have a balanced class, you need to have pros balanced with cons. In order to have balanced classes, you need to have a similar DPS. You can't just give archer lower DPS because he has ranged attacks. If so, then lower the DPS of a warrior for having a damage and defending buffs. Lower DPS of a mage for having a constant and free health regen. If you do so, then all the classes are going to have the similar DPS, which is the idea. Or, you know, don't penalize archer in DPS department for being a ranged class as much, you already did that with no defense. A friend showed me his warrior build. He has 30% higher damage than an archer while having a life steal AND a great defense. Mate, I mean, com' on.

Another person wrote me this (he's an amazing player):



In ideal world, archer wouldn't need defending as you wouldn't allow enemies to come close, but let's be honest, this isn't an ideal world.
There is lag, which often causes me problems, limited space, so enemies are relatively close to me and you easily ran out of mana, which is the primary source of damage. Melee attacks are useless.

"Mythics aren't necessarily designed only to deal massive amount of damage. I see them more like legendaries with a big personality."
"Sometimes we try to balance things out by removing damage/health/defense for better IDs, which is why mythic bows are strangely all lower in DPS."

It's not a personality that wins your matches, it's your abilities.
Go to any diablo player, path of exile, grim dawn, titan quest, you name it, and tell them to use a weapon with bad damage, but with great "IDs", and they will all laugh at you, and probably ban you cause they'll think you are trolling. Your weapon is ALWAYS a MAIN *source* of damage. You make your build around it. IDs are irrelevant if your character has no offensive abilities to kill opponents. If that wouldn't be the case, then the people would actually be using mythics on their archers, and how many actually do that? Once again, people use mythics on every single class except archer. Isn't that proof enough that something is fundamentally wrong with the balance of mythics? Damage is complimented by supportive buffs, not the other way around. It would all be fine and dandy if end game bosses had lower health regen, but they don't. I need to think about my damage 1st, then how to make me less damage prone.

I mean, just look at this thread:
https://forums.wynncraft.com/thread...can-beat-legendary-island-with-archer.185732/

You can solo LI with every class except archer. Even hardcores agree archer is bad for soloing LI. In diablo, every class can solo a similar greater rift level. If most classes could do e.g. level 80, but one only level 70, then the people would be pissed, and for the right reason. If this was LoL, no one would be using archer, cause it's just not balanced compared to others.
And that's the main problem here. You can solo LI with every class with less expensive build, except for an archer.

I love this game, I really do, but it crushes me inside knowing I spent so much time on my archer (started playing this class in 2014) for almost nothing. This is a problem, whether you agree or not, and should be addressed ASAP. Think I'm talking bs as much as you want, if everything would be fine then the archer and archer mythics wouldn't be on a bad rep. The game speaks for itself.

 

Actually, in my opinion, Archer is already balanced out as other classes do, by their unique 4 different offensive/stunning spells. See what I have done today, once you have learned how to control a class effectively, every classes are strong enough to solo LI without Mythics. (I hope.)

Well, price is not a problem here. I see Mythic gears as something like... a bonus feature, to someone who really wants to get stronger. To find/obtain Mythic gears, you need to grind/lootrun all day, or pay a fuck ton to someone who found and selling it.
I see the problem is that some of the mythics being outstandingly strong with (specific) builds. For example, Alka + Attack Tiers build, or Grimtrap. (Maybe Attack Tiers need to be balanced a bit somehow...?)
So my main points are:
1. Add or fix Damage-centered Archer mythic, like Gaia/Fatal.
2. Balance some outstandingly good specific mythic/builds somehow.
- Reduce Grim's damage a bit since it already has a fuck ton of ls.
- Rebalance the whole Attack Tier feature, making it less abusive with Super Slow tier weapons which have high base damage, just like Alkatraz. It is so easy to encounter the Cancer's -Spell/Melee % by Strength skill alone.

 

My point was that classes aren't balanced when comparing mythics. Archer is being outshined by everyone. Also, you had like 4 bows on you. Do other classes need 4 different weapons on them? Genuinely interested. My guess is that 1 mythic/legendary is enough, or at least that's what I have been told.

I should have elaborated the picture. I asked which would be the good mythic bow for an end game archer and that's the respond I got. Basically, the best would be either strati, who is ridic expansive, or none. That alone is indicator enough that something is wrong. I mean, one bow goes for stacks upon stacks, while other is hard to sell cause it's not really useful. Picture's primary idea wasn't the price of a particular mythic, but rather an indication that almost no archer mythics are really good.

I agree with you, just like many others, archer mythics need a change.

 

The point in my build was actually to use multi-elemental weapons. If you had a rainbow build, you would end up at around 50-100 sp for each elements, and cannot specialize in one element to use a elemental mythic weapon. I believe the point of rainbow build is that it can damage every mob there is but with lower damage, compared to other builds which are specialized in one specific element. I was somehow able to solo LI by having a rainbow build with a shit ton of mana regen. (No nerf cannon please)
I believe that the bosses like LI are supposed to be challenged by a group, which can cover all elements, and each person in the group specializes in a specific element. So you're not supposed to defeat "all" bosses by only one element weapon, even though it was a mythic one. Just look at current Alka/Grim (or some others), they absolutely need some balancing. In this point, Archer is still better.

I love how I'm arguing to myself an hour ago.

 

So, are alka and grim overpowered and need a nerf or archer mythics are bad?
Fair enough if others are op and need nerfing, tho how is that gonna happen when people spent fortune on them? I'd be mad in all honesty.

 

Alright guys here we go again with another class rant.


Ok so archer is to be a ranged class ok but buff mythics for archer is dumb. Let's take a look at the legendaries we have at level 99 (because strati and shit). At level 99 we have 4 viable legendary bows, Cluster, Gales Force, Hellstrand and Torental Tide. We also have Hive Bow but that's for level 100s. Let's say we have a air thunder water build (like me).

1) You do about 6k bombs for 4 mana with gales. Seems ok to me. And about 4-10k on cluster with thunder powders.

2) Stratiformis can do a lot of damage if you just build pure air damage. So can any other bow. So can any other mythic bow.

@motoki1 mythic bows do not need a buff. I can even go deeper but I'm not spending my day proving you wrong.

 

I'm not the one who decides the concept of weapons, so it's actually completely up to the GMs to make Mythics overpowered/useful in most of the situation (just like the current useful mythics such as Grim), or to make Mythics have unique characteristics just like current Archer mythics.
The current problem is, the concepts of Archer mythics and the concept of the others are way too different from each other. Mage/Assassin/Warrior ones can be overpowered enough to fight every one of bosses there is, but Archer ones are not.
We at least need to know which concept way we should go for.

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Did you try comparing to other classes? Firstly, on Legendary tier, all 4 classes' damages are pretty much balanced. (As you see it on the main post of this thread) But when that gets to Mythic tier, Archer ones' damage get suddenly so bad, with the excuse of "ID weight". As I said above, this is the problem:
The current problem is, the concepts of Archer mythics and the concept of the others are way too different from each other. Mage/Assassin/Warrior ones can be overpowered enough to fight every one of bosses there is, but Archer ones are not.

I'm not talking about Strati specifically. Strati is still fine compared to other fucked up ones, such as Ignis/Grandmother.

 

Not really valid argument mates.

1) 4-10k is 7k on average. You get a similar DPS with using an archer mythic. Mythics should be a class above legendaries, not similar to them.
FYI, friend's alka build does 13.5k on average. You do understand that's almost double the damage while having a naturally high defense?
How is that ok?

2) Why is this even mentioned? Of course everything can have high DPS if you build pure-wise, that wasn't the issue, the issue was how archer's mythics aren't even close to other classes mythics. If you believe otherwise, please, write down a proper set of arguments, not just saying "herp derp, another rant, everything is fine, k thx bai". You are doing no one a favor nor are you contributing to anything. You literally made no valid arguments as why buffing archer's mythics is not needed. Cause we have strati? Cause you can build pure 1 elemental build? Cause 6k for an end game is fine?

 

We need to build a wall and make all the other mythics pay for it.

 

Yes. I carry 7 weapons on me at all times on assassin.

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If that were true than Stratiformis probably wouldn't be worth 60 stacks

 

Strati has the highest DPS of all, that's hardly bad damage. Also, we already mentioned, strati isn't a problem.

 

catacylsm

 

Obviously, I meant the bows.

 

Fixed it for you

 

It seems like the archer is designed to be good at 2 things-- running away and spamming spells. Arrow storm and arrow shield both have high knockback and are used at close range, arrow storm is more focused and continuous for one enemy while arrow shield is AOE for when you're surrounded. Escape does exactly as the name implies, launches you in the air away from enemies, with stomp to stun enemies where you land and speed 3 to help run and dodge. Then there's bomb arrow which explodes on impact and can bounce off walls, making it perfect to rain on enemies from above, or while using escape. This playstyle seems to benefit from walkspeed and mana regen the most, which might be why stratiformus and spring are the two mythics considered viable by people. I like zany builds, but if you're going to play to your strengths, the other ones just don't cut it.

 

I absolutely agree. Archer is the ultimate procrastinator, avoiding absolutely anything in his path in order to survive. You have to walk all the time and spam spells. Problem is, what if I don't want to play like that? What happens when the game starts lagging/freezing for a few seconds? Why is archer's META so stupid? Run around like a spastic and spam spells isn't exactly what I had in mind when I started playing it.
Even diablo has 4 different playstyle METAs per character, and that game had a lot of problems. Here, the setup with mythic is either amazing, but it costs arm and a leg, or you are stuck with a bad mythic. Ignis, for example, forces you to spend points into defending. I currently am using 100 defending and I still get hit 1-1.5k damage per hit. I can't go further tanky because I need to compete with bosses regen, so it's strength or intelligence, intelligence most likely, but it's still not enough damage. Warrior with alka has crazy damage and great defense, with apoc the damage is still very good, but survivability is crazy.
Why can't we get mythics that are as good as ones from the other classes? I mean, have you seen granny? That is legendary tops, considering it a mythic is an insult.

 

And here I am building a fire/thunder build focusing around Chain Lightning and Explosion and trouncing the game as an Archer...

 

Do you mind sharing the build?
Is it good for soloing bosses?
Do you have a decent ignis build?

 

For the longest time, my build was:

Rust
Screech
Static-Charged Leggings
Bad Wolf

Okit/Fireball
Black Ring
Binding Brace
Criistal

Full Charge, two T4 fire powders, two T4 thunder powders(chain lightning)


Currently, it's still incomplete, but this is what I've got so far.

Darksteel Full Helm
Golden Scarab
Tophet
Bad Wolf(still)

Fireball
Black Ring
Vanguard/Binding Brace
Criistal/Sowilo

Magnus, two T6 thunder powders(chain lightning)

 

If I copied your build but used ignis, would that work?