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Guide Ingredient Changes (2019-03-10)

Discussion in 'Wynncraft' started by dukioooo, Mar 10, 2019.

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  1. dukioooo

    dukioooo Creator of WynnData HERO

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    All changes are live on wynndata! ;)
    hi

    Removed ingredients:
    0 removed ingredients



    New ingredients:
    0 new ingredients



    Renamed ingredients:
    0 renamed ingredients



    Changed ingredients:
    Code:
    Gunpowder:
    * scribing is now 1 (before: 0)
    * Exploding Min is now 15 (before: 20.00)
    * Exploding is now 20 (before: 30.00)
    
    Stolen Pearls:
    * Durability is now 34 (before: 30)
    
    Pykrete:
    - ✹ Fire Damage Min has been removed (before: -10.00)
    - ✹ Fire Damage has been removed (before: -7.00)
    + ❉ Water Defense Min with the value of 3 has been added
    + ❉ Water Defense with the value of 5 has been added
    - ✹ Fire Defense Min has been removed (before: -10.00)
    - ✹ Fire Defense has been removed (before: -7.00)
    * Durability is now 27 (before: 30)
    * Duration is now 30 (before: 32)
    
    Ghostly Essence:
    * scribing is now 1 (before: 0)
    + Duration with the value of 0 has been added
    
    Lizard Tail:
    * scribing is now 1 (before: 0)
    
    Pristine Claw:
    * Spell Damage Raw Min is now -25 (before: -50)
    * Spell Damage Raw is now -20 (before: -40)
    * Melee Damage Raw Min is now 20 (before: 30)
    * Melee Damage Raw is now 25 (before: 40)
    
    Leopard Blood:
    * Duration is now -100 (before: -220)
    
    Essence of Dusk:
    * scribing is now 1 (before: 0)
    * Spell Damage % Min is now 6 (before: 8)
    * Spell Damage % is now 10 (before: 13)
    * Spell Damage Raw is now 65 (before: 90)
    
    Unholy Spirit:
    + Soul Point Regen Min with the value of -5 has been added
    + Soul Point Regen with the value of -3 has been added
    - ❉ Water Defense Min has been removed (before: -10.00)
    - ❉ Water Defense has been removed (before: -6.00)
    - ❋ Air Defense Min has been removed (before: -10.00)
    - ❋ Air Defense has been removed (before: -6.00)
    
    Luxroot Cuttings:
    * Req. Combat Level is now 64 (before: 68)
    + ✤ Earth Defense Min with the value of 6 has been added
    + ✤ Earth Defense with the value of 8 has been added
    + ✹ Fire Defense Min with the value of -8 has been added
    + ✹ Fire Defense with the value of -6 has been added
    * Durability is now 32 (before: 35)
    
    Defiled Luxroot:
    + ✦ Thunder Defense Min with the value of 6 has been added
    + ✦ Thunder Defense with the value of 8 has been added
    - ❉ Water Defense Min has been removed (before: -24)
    - ❉ Water Defense has been removed (before: -16)
    * ❋ Air Defense Min is now -8 (before: -24)
    * ❋ Air Defense is now -6 (before: -16)
    * Durability is now 32 (before: 46)
    
    Antique Metal:
    * Walk Speed Min is now -4 (before: -8)
    * Walk Speed is now -3 (before: -6)
    + Defense Min with the value of 2 has been added
    + Defense with the value of 3 has been added
    * Durability is now 36 (before: 50)
    
    Nose Ring:
    * Durability is now 37 (before: 25)
    
    Piercing Talons:
    * Melee Damage Raw Min is now 25 (before: 30)
    * Melee Damage Raw is now 35 (before: 45)
    
    Stolen Goods:
    * XP Bonus is now 5 (before: 6.00)
    - Durability has been removed (before: 18)
    - Duration has been removed (before: 20)
    
    Elephelk Trunk:
    * cooking is now 0 (before: 1)
    * Durability is now 40 (before: 20)
    * Duration is now 40 (before: 20)
    
    Borange Fluff:
    - Durability has been removed (before: 36)
    - Duration has been removed (before: 36)
    
    Voidstone Sample:
    * Life Steal is now 45 (before: 50)
    + Mana Steal Min with the value of -1 has been added
    + Mana Steal with the value of -1 has been added
    - Walk Speed Min has been removed (before: 2)
    - Walk Speed has been removed (before: 3)
    
     
  2. Asthae

    Asthae ... HERO

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    owo uwu niceu
     
  3. Psykko

    Psykko Biggest of Bois HERO

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    lmao rip
     
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  4. Shots

    Shots A Masochist of the Jungle HERO

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    hi ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
     
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  5. by2011

    by2011 category creator VIP+

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    oh man voidstone sample op hype hype hype i've always loved losing the ability to sprint/cast spells while healing 2% of my hp

    at least i can flip it
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2019
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  6. rainbow_elite_7

    rainbow_elite_7 Skilled Adventurer

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    Wait a minute, voidstone sample now has negative mana steal?... And obelisk core can still be used on jewellery...
    Edit:3/4 Mana steal ring here I come!
    thx by2011

    And oh wow that borange fluff nerf is gonna screw over everyone, welp at least there's no need to go on borange fluff runs now XD
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2019
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  7. by2011

    by2011 category creator VIP+

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    3/4 ms*
     
  8. WithTheFish

    WithTheFish Feesh Staff Member Moderator HERO

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    Forget the Borange Fluff, my Voidstone Samples keep getting nerfed. :(

    At least Gunpowder can now be used for scribing, my friends and I can all blow stuff up together!
     
  9. Spinel

    Spinel Pronounced Spin-nell, not Spine-el

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    Borange Fluff was fine the way it was. It was an extremely rare, hard-to-get level 100 3-star ingredient, and the only way to get it was doing the hardest boss altar in the game (which has 5 phases, two of which can’t be killed naturally by the way) and had a 5% drop rate on top of that.


    I really hate how crafting is becoming less and less worth it because of nerfs like these. I understand nerfing low-tier ingredients and powder stacking if they require less effort to get good items, but nerfing a level 100 three star ingredient is just stupid. If it absolutely needed a nerf, the durability/duration should’ve been reduced, not completely removed.
     
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  10. by2011

    by2011 category creator VIP+

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    tbh i'd be ok with borange fluff nerf if they make it more common

    it's just not worth the trouble now
     
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  11. Druser

    Druser ele defs don't matter HERO

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    Agreed, even with a very optimized build it's going to take an average of 2-3 hours to get a single Borange Fluff - for most people, even a skilled level 100 player with a good endgame build will require 5+ hours to get one on average (not counting multiple deaths). I could understand nerfing it to e.g. +18 or +12 since it was dominating the meta a little too much, but 0 is pretty low for such an incredibly rare ingredient.

    Actually this is kind of my problem with most of the 5% boss altar ingredients, they're just too rare for the benefit to be worth it. For most boss altars, getting enough of the drop to activate the altar 20 times takes a ridiculously long amount of time - less so for Orange Wybel, but that's made up for by the fact that Orange Wybel is level 100 and therefore isn't trivial to beat at endgame. Consider the list of such ingredients:
    - Borange Fluff (covered above, but honestly it's probably the best of these since at least it still has applications with Pride of the Heights + double Borange Fluff to boost attack speed tier, mana regen, mana steal, etc.)
    - Adamastor's Faceplate (Is anyone ever going to use this? Elemental defense percent is such a trivial stat in almost all situations)
    - Urdar's Stone (Ok this is pretty good)
    - Large Titanium Chunk (Crafted armor already has ridiculous base health anyway)
    - More-Pearlescent Jewel (Only useful if you're willing to stack a bunch of them - since it's jeweling, you can't duplicate it with Pride of the Heights either)
    - Subsuming Darkness (If you're using fire melee stuff like Ignition, Hellstrand, and Enhanced Post-Processing Microchip cover that pretty easily. Could have applications in Dex-based lifesteal, since you can craft slower weapons vs. Fast/Super Fast tendencies of Thunder)
    - Haros' Broken Badge (I guess it has applications with Brainwash, but Native Jadeite is nearly as good while being much easier to acquire - speaking of which Native Jadeite needs something more like double its current req)
    - Eye of the Beast (One of this and 3x Native Jadeite to create an item that's basically equivalent to Concentration. This got nerfed way too hard)
     
  12. Spinel

    Spinel Pronounced Spin-nell, not Spine-el

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    For the lower level altars, using a loot set helps massively for getting these ingredients, for the higher ones, you could always use consumables that have loot bonus. Although at that point, it’s probably easier to just buy the ingredients from the altars than to make/buy the consumables.

    I do agree with you though, most of the 5% ingredient drops from the altars are mediocre or just plain bad. Urdar’s Stone and More-Pearlescent Jewel are pretty good, borange is situational now but decent (although not worth the effort to get) and Haros’ Badge is alright. The others though, not so much. Subsuming Darkness’ negative melee is ew, Eye of the Beast shouldn’t be so restrictive, most builds won’t need the health from large titanium chunk, and adamastor’s faceplate is useless since air is already ridiculously easy to defend against.
     
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  13. by2011

    by2011 category creator VIP+

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    eye of the beast + 2x bob's tear + 3x native?

    100 dura only, but otherwise ok idk
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
  14. Altakar

    Altakar ingredient tinkerer and day counter QA Item Team

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    Since I'm doing Jeweling there are only 5 changes that matter to me

    Stolen Pearls/Nose Ring buff: Sure I'll take it, especially because using Borange for durability isn't gonna work anymore(will get to that later), and also nice to know that I'm not using a level 35 ingredient consistently in an endgame recipe.
    Pristine Claw nerf: I've flipped this thing before to get up to 200 raw spell for no requirement(though that stuff is relatively expensive). You could also use this to get over 100 melee damage. As much as I enjoyed playing with this, it deserved the nerf.
    Voidstone Sample nerf: This one annoys me. I believe you could have toned down the speed and the lifesteal and it'd be okay. But now that this thing has -mana steal, the new Voidstone Sample is worse, but much more fun.
    Borange Fluff nerf: This one I have a big problem with. A lot of the time, you would use this to boost ingredients with high durability penalties, such as Incremental Mapping Module, but now all of the flexibility of the item is gone. And for boosting less potent ingredients, Unicorn Horn exists. With the durability nerfs to stuff like Antique Metal, Defiled Luxroot, and Luxroot Cuttings, it's now much harder to use items with high durability penalties. And it's also a boss altar rare drop. Even the 3-star drops from other altars are competitive for their professions (except Adamastor's Faceplate but that's another rant). It's still possible Borange Fluff is still used as an alternative to Unicorn Horn but to me that would not be worth it at all. If there was a problem with durability it could have been nerfed to 24. 36 durability is actually a huge impact to all recipes using Borange Fluff and if you used two you just got screwed over incredibly hard.

    These problems could have been avoided with more playtesting on theorycrafting which is what angers me. The amount of broken stuff released on day 1 of the update was so high this fallout was gonna happen.

    One last gripe: Jeweling now has the least amount of ingredients by a long shot(72), the next least is Cooking with 80. The average amount of ingredients per profession is roughly 111.

    This is also super fun to contribute to flipping but with anything like the old drawbacks you could flip items and get 2/4 MR(I did this on paper), and seeing items like Voidstone Sample will not ever make this good for the game(also those recipes using Eye of the Beast to help flip were expensive as fuck but were probably better than some LI stuff)
     
  15. HorseDuck

    HorseDuck i found 2 warchiefs in 1 loot run please help HERO

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    i feel like going through the hassle to get a borange fluff is not worth it. with my luck, it took me and a friend nearly 47 tries for a single drop. now that the item is just plain ass, it would probably make sense for it to have a rarity 6 (0.02%) drop chance from normal wybels like most t3 ingredients.
     
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  16. SilverMirror

    SilverMirror Retired IM HERO

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    A general pattern can be seen in this patch, which is to lower the positive durability ingredient's potency. Positive durability ingredients, in general, are much more powerful in practice than on paper for the following reason.

    Assuming you have 300 durability, and you keep 100 for usage, with 6 slots each ingredient have around 200/6= 33 durability potential.
    If you use a +50 durability ingredient, like pre-nerf antique metal, what you get is 250 durability divided by 5 remaining slots = 50 durability potential per ingredient. Which is a 50% increase in durability potential per ingredient.

    What this means is by using 1 durability ingredient, you can use ingredients with 50% higher durability than what you originally could have.

    If you use two, for example again, pre-nerf antique metal, you would get 300 durability divided by the 4 remaining slots = 75 durability potential per ingredient. Which is 2.3x the original amount.

    Which is why positive durability ingredients are now more exclusive to, being itself, with usually little other stats for just flavouring. Elephulk is stronger being a tier 3 and all but it overall balances itself with the relatively high requirements and the elemental defences.

    This goes back to the borange nerf. +12% to everything and durability made it too easily slappable in basically any situation. Borange is basically the rainbow slap of crafted item, the antithesis of creativity, which half of it is the fault of its initial design. But you can see how taking away the durability can make people that wants durability, to use positive durability ingredients, instead of using borange as a durability patch and an all-rounded buff.

    However, We can see a general consent among the community is boss altar ingredients being too hard to get in general, we'll see if we have the chance to change that, and hopefully, we do, but no promises.

    Also, I've explained this on discord yesterday but I'll rehash it here. The last thing we want is for you guys to sit back and smirk at the computer and be like "haha they did this change that is so bad I know 100 more ways to do it better" or "if the IMs are so incompetent I won't join them to improve the game coz I'm so sure that my idea is better than anything they can come up with". That isn't productive and it doesn't help the game. The IMs aren't omnipotent, we often strike an accord with what the community wants as well. This is why we stress so much effort in promoting two-way communication. If you have feedback that you want to make, please go write it in the IM changelog thread. It helps us to notice your feedback and it helps facilitate discussions. And frankly, if you make a good suggestion we won't hesitate to bring it up within the team and do a discussion over it. I'll touch on this on IM thread a bit more but I just want to throw this out here for more people to see.
     
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  17. Druser

    Druser ele defs don't matter HERO

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    It was pretty nice how the new Major's Badge was put up in a thread before the item was actually released, so we could find out pretty quickly whether it was too overpowered. Some more stuff like that with the initial update would have been nice.
     
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