SPOILER I'm not really feeling the Fruma story line.

Biff, he's spent the entire thread either making up an alternate story to attack or posturing. Even you can see that.

Soosu is the direct cause of the progress in the district, and the prime architect of basically all large-scale machinery. Her apathy is recent, and it doesn't affect her primary functions: Invention and Dernic Strike Team Member. Soosu is canonically a total genius who was revolutionizing her district long before she had the power to alter matter with her mind.

Also, as Selvut insisted was a "monumentally stupid move", she's decided to spite a ruinously-powerful individual by denying her the one thing she wants because she failed to stop The Player: An impossible task Soosu couldn't possibly have completed ON TOP of spending all her time inventing AND making her Weaver.

A slightly more spiteful Soosu might have gone on a rampage of her own, deconstructed the district, and sent a golem army to trample the rest of the province. Her Sovereigns are a public sign of her power, and the literal bearers of it too. Losing one to treachery is something you want to avoid at all costs, and the fastest way to make it happen is to pile an impossible task on top of your original agreement, then refuse to hold up your end of the bargain when they inevitably fail.

 

I didn't even realize this was meant to be referring to me at first because you called me a "he" (did you not bother to even check my profile??). And what do you mean making up an alternate story????? I replied to the original post in earnest?????? Nor do I need to posture or convince others when pretty much everyone else has come to the conclusion this isn't a good idea independently????

unlike the player im not a fictional character and thus do care about you referring to me as 'he'.

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Its hard for me to imagine that this suggesting I'm making up your version of the story, when all I did was say why it wasn't good and how you misread the canon story, so is this referring to me 'making up an alternate story' about Wynncraft's canon?? I'm one of the worldbuilders who actively contributed to Fruma's story, and while that doesn't mean I know the intent behind absolutely everything as it was a group project, it does mean I know what we intended to convey through it.
I also don't think that the storyline is above criticism. There's parts that I personally would've changed if I had the choice to, namely around the in-universe treatment of the Roughworks, which I feel pushes it as being way too plainly evil and forgets about one of the big ideas with the region and the entire point of it being walled in to begin with. It's just that this criticism you levied doesn't come from a place of understanding the Server's broader storylines or the narrative of Fruma, nor does it seem to come from someone who really understands how to write this sort of story.

 

And this is when you bother responding. Otherwise it's "Nuh uh" and you fundamentally misunderstanding the concept of Chaotic Good.

It's called a strawman. You can stab it all you want, but it's not going to bleed.

To boot, your response, earnest or otherwise, now meant everyone else got to come in and pretend that there was somehow a real response to the main thrust of the post, so I had to deal with pages upon pages of random tangents about romance, sexuality, and countless other positions I never took.

The internet is the internet, so you get what you get, but there's a clear starting point here, and it's you.

You barely listened, then complained that I didn't give up when you got tired of fighting the strawman.

 

I don't even know what to say.

 

Historia se repetit.

 

(I lied in the past ig I'm back)
Gaslight Gatekeep Tourguideboss
But also
Bro
Seriously
(I would like to make it exceedingly clear that this is a joke. Not an attack. Or support. Or in anyway pertaining to the argument at hand. That's a lie. It pertains. I digress. But do I?)

 

Glad to see some activity on the forums again

 

While the Fruma questline could use some different motivations from our point, and a few extra instances showcasing the very obviously implied training that’s done in the Roughworks + Auburn, holy cornball fan fiction

Just rewrite everyone to think of you as a god lmao. How much cornier can you rewrite a story

 

Right? Imagine writing a story where the only reason "The Resistance" even kills any of their targets is because the player showed up to carry them.

Wait...

 

Syndra kill steals Zhiraok
Sui kills Gikyo, the player actually doesn't.
Rex kill steals Her Majesty

Anyway the player fighting the villains of a story is a pretty big thing in video games so uhh
What?

 

What I said:

What you responded to: "Imagine writing a story where the only reason "The Resistance" even kills any of their targets is because the player personally fights and delivers the killing blow to each and every one without a moment's intervention from anyone."

Yeah. If anything, I made the player less prominent in that regard by making him powerless against two of them unaided. So I have no idea what Grugle's on about.

 

This thread is the equivalent of that one girl on tiktok that ended racism by uniting every race against her

 

If you offer something to her, your allegiance, your power, or your desire to restore balance, you offer it for a reason. You'd like her assistance, her information, or more. This is what I mean by ally. Would the player really do this with someone as nasty as The Queen?

Can you expand on this? The Queen would just chase you down. The only reason you escape in the current version is because she's unaware. Sui isn't going to be much help. Anyways, Zhiraok would help The Queen and get you, unless I'm mistaking your event order. Do we fight Zhiraok before or after? Also what happens while Syndra fights?

--- Double posted oops:

There's a more fundamental issue with your festival scene:

So after Syndra sacrifices herself for the resistance, you decide to ignore the plan and throw yourself at The Queen? This just makes the player character look foolish and like they have a massive ego. I can accept the fact that the player character has a massive ego. But disrespecting Syndra's wishes like this, with such an obviously selfish motive? What would the Leaves think of you? They'll never trust you again.

Maybe this is a point of growth for the player. Would need more development of this later in your story in that case.

 

Now those are tough questions. I hadn't thought about it.

My thinking is you're already there at the behest of the King of Ragni. You've been going along with this return, the tournament, and their rudeness for no other reason than he asked. Being His representative, veteran of the conflict in question, and having presumably seen the Portal to Dern right behind The Eye's lair, you'd at least not let the topic go. The Silent Expanse threatens Wynn and Gavel as it is, and she says the recruit program is meant to fight this exact threat. By your reckoning, it's been a staggering success, and Orphion's already told you that you need to let go of your preconceived notions of good and evil in this fight when he locked you in that flashback about the kidnapped villagers and forced you to loop until you decided to let them be turned into golems.

Certainly we can say the player isn't pleased, but are we just going to let go the fact that he's already allowed worse to happen?

TL;DR: She blasts you, sits around giving a speech to drive home she can kick your ass any time despite how much damage you've caused, and Zhiraok chases you meanwhile. Soosu stops him from finishing you off, and the Queen has to deal with her before all her talk about "being in charge" starts looking like a lie. Gikyo can handle you from here.

The Queen is there to make a point, and being seen quelling the rebellion is as important as actually quelling it. Her power doesn't just come from being invincible in combat, but being known as such. You know how she stops to make a speech, let Syndra give her last words, then executes her publicly? That's some of the best writing in the whole Roughworks because it, wittingly or not, acknowledges that there's more to being a ruler than just crushing anyone who opposes you: There's ceremony, there's public opinion, there's an image to uphold in the face of anyone who would defy you. The Queen personally defeating not one, but two assassins, making a point of how powerful she is relative to the player? That's a message. What matters isn't stopping you right then and there, it's making it clear that she's still in charge before anyone starts smelling blood in the water.

Surely Zhiraok can handle something as simple as chasing down a half-dead nuisance and his dependent in the meantime, yes? Absolutely. But then Soosu betrays her and stops Zhiraok herself.

Now. You're the Absolute Monarch of the realm. One of your Sovereigns has betrayed you and restrained (possibly killed) a second. The rebellion has almost entirely been imprisoned, killed, and/or mortally wounded. Do you:

A) Keep chasing the half-dead stragglers into the woods full of your elite guards, under watch by Gikyo and his network of changeling spies.

B) Deal with the open traitor, already proven herself to be a threat to even the Wynn soldier, holding your recently-dead Sovereign prisoner for all to see.

Maybe you'd pick A, but my money's on B.

As for what happens when Syndra fights, I'm not entirely sure. The Leaves cause a distraction already. But I'm not sure what they're expecting to stop. I would imagine they're standing by to help Syndra escape with their spells, but she bit off WAY more than she could chew, and they got caught out halfway through, as they did in the original.

My idea is that you've never been on board with her revolution to begin with. She tells you she wants to assassinate the Queen, and being her friend, you help her try. But you're "just there to talk". She fails, and you get "to talk" with the Queen now that you've got her right where you want her.

The player knows death is reversible if you're strong enough to beat your opponent. If Syndra dies, it's her own fault, and there was nothing you could do to stop her in the first place. Death's a cool guy, anyway; she's in good hands.

Yes. These are character flaws.

The player is ducking responsibility for the revolution he started.

Syndra took the player being the player as a sign that she had momentum on her side.

 

The donkey and the tiger looking at this thread rn and seeing themselves and the grass

 

Are you accounting for the Beyond the Grave rewrite

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Are you accounting for the Beyond the Grave rewrite

 

I don't know that there's any rewrite out. Though if they changed the "kill what killed you to revive", it would deal a pretty sad blow to the whole "mad with power; thinks he's literally invincible" thing.

 

They got rid of "kill what killed you to revive". It was goofy to the canon anyways and doesen't work with the new soul reincarnation cycle and recent player lore from Fruma and Point of No return.

On the bright side, Beyond the Grave went from a goofy(but good!) quest whose story could not be taken seriously in the greater context of the game to one that is 100% canonical and includes good foreshadowing and good lore moments with the same great gameplay and fun personality of Death.