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I Never Understood Why Fire=defense And Earth=attack. Shouldn't It Be The Other Way Round?

Discussion in 'Wynncraft' started by Runaiic, Feb 10, 2019.

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  1. Runaiic

    Runaiic Page of Mind, Taurza, INTP 5w4

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    Fire burns things. It makes things hurt or feel pain. People don't use fire to protect themselves, they use fire to destroy things.

    Earth crushes things, sure, but solid ground is a very hard thing to tackle.

    If we did a switch of Fire and Earth today (just switching the names of the elements around, maybe some changed models, lore, and names), what impact would it have?
     
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  2. Ichikaaa

    Ichikaaa The Giver HERO

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    I don't entirely agree with this. Yes, I believe Earth to be more defensive than Fire, for sure. However, Fire doesn't represent Melee Damage at all, in my opinion. When I think of a big hitter, raw damage, I certainly think of Earth more. I think it's hard to make everything completely logical.
    But yes, when I think of Fire, I think of an Elemental Attack, coming from like a Sorcerer or Wizard's Magic, or something, and usually they don't have great defense, so I don't think it's perfect by any means, but I think that's okay for now. Maybe in the future something will change, but who knows :)
     
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  3. WithTheFish

    WithTheFish Feesh Staff Member Moderator HERO

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    I remember some admin or GM explaining it a while back, but they explained it like this:

    - Getting hit by a rock will hurt a lot, hence why it's damage-based. Earth items are the "Brute" items generally.
    - Fire is meant to represent courage, and therefore "Defense".

    Anyway, this item system has been around for 3 years and it's probably too late to change it without everyone becoming very confused.
     
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  4. Stormarend

    Stormarend Toa of Ice

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    Eh In my opinion it would've made the most sense if it was attack (or something else) and defence instead of strength and defence with the fire and earth elements respectively. The main problem is that the skill point system existed before elements which made it so the elements wouldn't necessarily perfectly fit in with the different skills.

    On the topic of the GM/Admin explanation. Getting hit by a rock hurts, but getting hit by fire also hurts. Could pretty much be said for everything. Furthermore I think its destructive power is the one characteristic of fire, whereas earth can pretty much do anything. While earth probably represents "strength" better than fire, it also represents defence better and I'd argue that if the damage stat weren't called strength but something else fire would fit better. The whole courage thing is just... whatever. Courage doesn't necessarily even represent defence and fire doesn't necessarily represent courage, especially since all the other elements (except water, since magic doesn't exist) are taken quite literally.

    Also thunder is an element so everything should be taken with a grain of salt.
     
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  5. Bluescreen

    Bluescreen Running Wynndows 7.2.8712.

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    Well, there's a reason that one says something has a "burning flame of passion" or something like that.

    Though some elements seem... odd. Thunder looks like a "light" element, but lots of items based around thunder are themed around dark magic. It's best not to think of it too much.
     
  6. Wynnooblet

    Wynnooblet Slayer of Useless Threads VIP+

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    Getting hit by air
     
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  7. Stormarend

    Stormarend Toa of Ice

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    You see there is this thing called wind which results in pretty wacky things...
     
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  8. NajimiChan

    NajimiChan Ya-Hooo ^o^ HERO

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    Just because you walz into a fight against a god with a lot of courage doesn't mean you wont get toasted.

    Bob: NO! I CANT GIVE UP. I WILL DEFEAT YOU AND I WILL ENSURE YOU WILL NEVER HARM ANYONE ELSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    The Eye: Roflmao
    Bitchslaps Bobby so hard into the wall the exit caves in.

    The Eye: Well sh*t...

    Everyone else: OH MY GAWD HE USED HIS LIFE FORCE TO SEAL AWAY THE EYE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  9. blankman

    blankman Captain of Beyond the Scene

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    They also cited "fire burning down forests helps make new growth". Personally, what I'd say is that Earth fits melee damage better, and then by process of elimination they got stuck with fire = defense.
     
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  10. Gigavern

    Gigavern Famous Adventurer VIP+

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    I can only really conceive of one valid explanation for fire, that being that fire also represents energy, but in a less offensive sense than thunder, so investing into it would bolster your life energy.

    But I do think that Earth would better fit a defensive role than Fire, which would be better off offensively. Plus Strength basically adds both melee % and spell % currently, so yeah.

    That said, it's kinda too late really.
     
  11. Salted

    Salted Game Design & Wynncraft Founder Staff Member Admin HERO GM

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    It's because when I designed them, I looked at them a bit more on the "metaphorical" side. Fire is warm and often used to describe courage so it felt good as the defensive element. Earth is brutal, colder, heavier and tougher, which felt more appropriate for the strength/attack element. Bit too late to change them up though, but I think it makes more sense when you look at them this way.
     
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  12. H0Y0Y0Y0Y0Y0B0Y

    H0Y0Y0Y0Y0Y0B0Y A H0Y0Y0Y0Y0B0Y IMPROVED HERO

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    A cow eat earth and lives off of it. You are also what you eat. Does that mean Salted's brutal, colder, heavier and tougher?

    Wait does that mean........




























    upload_2019-2-10_14-12-38.png
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
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  13. SmileyAlec

    SmileyAlec Olympic Gaming HERO

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    Oh god, what have you done
     
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  14. Salted

    Salted Game Design & Wynncraft Founder Staff Member Admin HERO GM

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    Where did you get this legit pic of me? Turn on your location
     
  15. H0Y0Y0Y0Y0Y0B0Y

    H0Y0Y0Y0Y0Y0B0Y A H0Y0Y0Y0Y0B0Y IMPROVED HERO

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  16. Runaiic

    Runaiic Page of Mind, Taurza, INTP 5w4

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    Holy crap this thread blew up.

    Also thanks everyone for explaining it
     
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  17. Aya

    Aya Very Serious Gensokyo Journalist VIP+

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    I mean, if anything, Fire would be a high DPS tool rather than a heavy hitter, so if fire becomes damage stuff, it wouldn't be a heavy hitter, instead a tool that attacks incredibly fast
    Fire doesn't burn you instantly, it is a slow proccess that hurts a lot, so the most appropriate representation of fire from a tool perspective would be to make it low powered but incredibly fast, also very mana-heavy considering that fire needs tons of fuel to sustain itself and expand (which is done well by making fire builds tend to have little to no mana regeneration)
     
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  18. orange0402

    orange0402 I got exposed by pyro VIP

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    shouldn't that mean that it should be a slow hitting heavy hitter...?
     
  19. Aya

    Aya Very Serious Gensokyo Journalist VIP+

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    It is slow because it takes its time to eat you alive
    However, the pain is constant and consistent and so is the fuel demand, so it would deal low amounts of damage really quickly, essentially what fire does
    It would feel like the arrow storm spell, tons of weak attacks executed at blinding speed, causing a massive attack
     
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