Guild Moderators

please do nto guidl pltoics in mdotaertain.

 

Any method other than just manually spamming the command /gu attack or doing the numpad spamming is not allowed, since that's automatically using macros/autoclickers.

There quite simply is a way to distinguish autoclickers from dragclickers (or any other clicking method). With any normal clicking method you'll NEVER get even above 30+ cps (20 even prob), so why use any of those methods when you can use the superior method of numpad spamming for around 100-200 requests per second (and autoclicking will give you a few hundred cps) . And it's true, numpad spamming is allowed and if they used that they would not have been banned.

But, in this case we suspected that instead of numpad spamming they used other tools since we consistently got ''outclicked'' in 4v1s and such. That's the reason we have contacted mods and the reason admins took a closer look into it. We ourselves - quite obviously I think - don't also check our own players on whether or not they look suspicious (there were enough territories to be taken and stuff), but if you guys had any suspicion you would have also been able to go to the moderators and report them. But doing 4v1s and losing consistently is in my opinion already a good sign that we probably are not using external tools.

This simply isn't true. Moderators know of the numpad spamming and that is also perfectly fine allowed. Using autoclickers/macros simply isn't.

I agree that they should stay an impartial third party when it comes to situations like these, and I also think that's excactly what they did. If you guys had any suspicion of macros/autoclickers on our side I'd assure you that the mods would also look into those players.

 

I do think that's what my entire thread was about, that this whole macro thing was an example of this of a lack of set in rules, miscommunication and such. Certain players made it very stupid by spamming the thread. This wasn't a ban appeal for AVO it was an example of why many of us want a rule update or some more clarity behind moderation in guilds.

Once again this fact seems to be on a he said/she said basis, as people have been banned for numpad spamming in the past. Additionally distinguishing between a high quality drag clicking mouse and an autoclicker is almost impossible. Do I now need to report when I lose more than a few snipes in a row?

 

sa thsi samrt amn has sadi, guidl polstics in modertaion bad.

 

I say mishandled due to the onesided investigation here, there were plenty of guilds we consistently lost to sniping, and now I ask for clarity since now I wonder if the solution is to report every lost snipe rather than attribute it to ping or bad luck.

 

I think if there truly was a case of bias or "one-sided investigation", that'd have happened much sooner.
The whole reason people got moderators involved was cause AVO went from winning a solid amount of "snipe wars" to essentially winning every single one.
Note how even when someone has an obvious ping advantage, it'd trigger the message a few times due to sheer amount of people trying to spam the command; when AVO players were using macros they merely had to /class there for a few seconds and took it without a fail, triggering no duplicates.

 

Would love to know which mouse you can click more than 300+ times per second with by dragclicking because that simply isn't possible. I know it might seem like we purposefully called people out for cheating to get our advantage back but that truly isn't the case. After the bans we got confirmation that the logs indeed confirmed they were cheating, which means our suspicion was right. And yes, if you have suspicions that someone is cheating go ahead and report them because afterall we all want to have a fair fight.

 

As a professional Minez degenerate I can confirm that mice usually do, in fact, not click 300 CPS

 

GG mod(s) deleting my creative message for "useless" content even though it was a funny joke that stood out from the rest. Can't take the heat LLLLLLLL.

Also, on another, more serious note, there was definitive evidence there were cheaters abusing an exploit to gain leverage in a broken system (thank fucking god it's being changed). Evidence is evidence. The proof has spoken for itself and I really don't think there is an issue at hand here tbh.

 

As far as I know, only one player has presented any proof whatsoever of a player potentially cheating during snipes. That player was not me. In fact, it wasn't even presented until after the initial ban wave.
My screenshot is not proof, and shouldn't be taken as such. Players were banned after an admin checked the actual logs and confirmed inhuman speed, not after a mod saw a single screenshot with no further proof, including accompanying logs, or even the date the screenshot is from.

Could crunkle have made a mistake? Of course. Is it likely he made a mistake? No, definitely not. If you see someone sending hundreds of chat messages (or clicks) per second at regular intervals with extreme consistency, what conclusion would you draw? That they're simply dragclicking, or that they're autoclicking?

I don't personally know what crunkle saw when he checked the logs. Maybe some people were smart and had their macro introduce a random delay for each click. Maybe they only did it when near a banner and only used it within the banner, never using /gu attack. Maybe they took even more measures. Regardless, it's pretty darn difficult to contest logs.

 

petition to classify guilds as a bug and remove them from the game

 

Even if the bans were justified, I think it's just really shitty timing when you consider that the screenshot aforementioned has been out for about two weeks now. It just seems extremely suspicious that the ban was put into place by an ANO mod during an ANO raid

 

The screenshot was not the only piece of evidence. Crunkle literally looked at the logs and found concrete evidence of cheating during the war. The logs do not lie. Also, multiple mods were involved in the ban, so it's a false and inherently misleading statement to completely scapegoat the situation on a single mod and a single theater of a map-wide war.

 

I mean, were they supposed to wait till the people actively breaking rules got off for the day?

 

Honestly, why would you do something like numpad spamming in the first place

 

welcome to guild warring

 

The main thing I take from this thread is that Guild Warring is generally a pretty toxic environment and a rule overhaul is needed to prevent things from getting this bad in the first place.

 

map squaaare

 

if i was a moderator and someone was breaking the rules i would not waste my time after collecting evidence to contact someone else in order to ban them. I think if you got the evidence did the investigating, you should be responsible for it, not someone else. So don't expect someone to want to or have to do that as a staff member.

 

The fact that sniping is even a thing means that wynn's guild system is really screwed up. I doubt wynn's real intention for wars is for people to spam keypad/macro in order to win a territory.