Does Anyone Else Find Lari Extremely Annoying

lari doesnt like me so i dont like her

 

I think that you're trying way too hard to forgive Lari, most of the stuff you said is just headcanon and hasn't been said in the actual quest, or is even contradicted.
The problem here is that, after a millennium of trying to be pacifist, and refusing to kill anything, even after suffering the consequences of not killing the monster, seeing her friends die, watching as the world decays... she decides to finally snap in the span of 10 minutes... (and let me reinforce once more on how this happens right after she tried to murder you for helping her out).
You can't make a character change morals in 10 minutes, especially when the only proof that she has actually done so, is when she tries to kill us, kills a sheep and tries to kill the man who commands the corruption (which, if I read the lore correctly, she also created by letting the parasite live)
I'm just gonna address the change of morals, I think I've already shown what I think of Lari.
I'm also probably going to keep on addressing a few small topics that pop up in this thread, but the big TL:DR of what I'm trying to convey about her is:
There are plots that sacrifice good writting that makes sense for viewer satisfaction.
There are plots that sacrifice viewer satisfaction for good writting that makes sense.
There are plots that are balanced
There is Lari's plot, who fails at both.
The whole questline ends with Lari trying to kill us and taking our chance to fight Bak'al (unsatisfactory).
Lari has had a thousand years to learn and experience that being a pacifist is going to doom everyone, yet changes to genocide mode in 10 minutes (bad writting).
(No hate on who wrote the questline tho, I've expressed how this is the right direction to go, it's just that they are taking the wrong path)

 

she acts like a karen between rol 2-4 but after that she isn't

so sort of

 

First, if you are unsatisfied that you didn't get to fight Bak'al, it is very, very clear that is not the last we see of Bak'al. He will have a fight, don't worry.

Much of what I said about Lari is not headcanon, I am not trying to forgive Lari. I am merely examining the psychology of why Lari acts the way she does and the intentional writing decisions made by the devs. Lari spent so long to throw aside her morals because it defined her, throwing aside her morals would be "throwing away everything she's ever stood for." Imagine forsaking what defines you and everything you've stood for? You'd hesitate when confronted with the parasite as well. The RoL storyline and Lari's character is not so simple. She snaps out of her pacifism because she is confronted with the guardian for the first time in a millenia and realizes exactly what the light is and why Orphion chose her. She realizes how she can finally fix her mistakes. This is stated in RoL4 in an incredibly long speech. It is canon that Lari feels like Orphion chose wrong and she is haunted by her failures. She made mistakes, and these mistakes are what makes here a good character. It is canon that she tried to kill the player because they are a reminder of her own failures. Her fight with Bak'al, again, was her trying to right her mistakes. There are many ways we know this. From how she said "Stand back, this is my fight" or something. To how she clearly realizes the player is the one that must save Orphion, not her. And again, the fact that Lari unintentionally created Bak'al, as you said, is another example of how she is now trying to face her mistakes and move past them: Good Writing. I think trying to forgive her is an insult to her character, as she made mistakes, which were intentional by the creators. She is trying to move past her past failures. RoL has nuance that other Wynn quests do not have. Lari is not going to spew exactly what she's feeling at every instant of the quest. I will try to site more when doing future character analysis so people know my explanation.

Looking for possible canonical explanations for a character's actions is rule 1 in character analysis. It is not forming headcanon.

 

TL:DR: Ok, I understand you better now, but I still think that she should've changed morals way earlier.

Alright, I think that you've explained yourself better. Before I say anything, correct me if I'm wrong, but headcanon basically means "possible canon", for example, when someone makes a theory that's a headcanon, since it has canon connections but hasn't been proven.
Anyways, I reread all of the important dialogues again, and I can now say that after the battle with the player she was emotionally unstable , questioning her behavior and refusing to believe what the spirit of the forest was saying (that trying to kill the player was needed). From a story telling point this was a good way to make her change morals (in such a short span of time), she even said that she needed some time to get used to this.
But (I used many effects so you know that it's important), I still think that she should've definitively changed earlier. I'm just now realizing the magnitude of her actions; she's the cause of everything bad in Wynncraft, like seriously, the snowball effect on this is crazy.
She let the parasite live, she made her best friend suffer the bite of 87 (funny reference now laugh), she made her best friend become an evil being who kills people to become more powerful, she created the portal, she created Bak'al (made him who he is) ; she basically destroyed wynn and gavel. Now, of course, I won't say that she's guilty of doing most of that stuff, the reason why I'm bringing this up is because she did NOTHING.
She saw everything unfold, she knew she was the one responsible for all of those things, yet, are you going to tell me that she needed a tree (spirit of the forest) to tell her that what she was doing was wrong?
Couldn't she just tell Orphion that she didn't want to be the chosen one? Because it's very clear that Orphion didn't especifically choose her, their morals are literally the opposite.
Alright, I'm not gonna say that she should be forced to defend the whole province, but she should retire from said charge. Or does she think that she has to be the one defending the province since she's a pacifist?
Also, what she said when she was figthing Bak'al, word for word is: " "Player"!! Stay back! I'm keeping up but he'll destroy you if you get close!!". She never mentioned that being her fight (although I can totally see the hidden meaning behind the fight being that she was fighting her mistakes). She instead basically told us that we weren't strong enough, but she apparently was (did I mention that she then proceeded to jump into the portal containing the commander of the corruption?)
I see that the writters did put a lot of thought into Lari (and I never said the contrary), but they did something I talked about earlier. They sacrificed good writting for viewer satisfaction. There is a huge logical plot hole on her behavior that has to be explained, it makes no sense for her to only snap after talking to the guardian of the forest. Did she not realize her mistakes? Why did Orphion choose her, if he did? Did Orphion never tell her that what she was doing was wrong? Why didn't the player tell her that Orphion didn't want her to be pacifist? (this one is a little nitpicky)
And may Orphion bless whoever had to read through this
Edit: I just saw your edit about how some of her behavior is explained in secret descoveries, maybe there's something I'm missing that's explained there (most likely tbf)

 

I'm not entirely sure how much of her lore is in discoveries/other quests but you can def see more of her personality in Memory Paranoia. I think the reason she did nothing during the whole thing is she didn't know what to do. She was put in a position in which her morals disadvantaged her. I think a lot of the territory we are getting into is speculative at this moment in time. I think the fight with Bak'al is open to interpretation and we don't have a clear view of why Orphion chose her, so I'm being careful to stick to a canonical explanation. I'm pretty positive Orphion did not tell Lari to be pacifist, as Orphion is the manifestation of light and is not bound by morals. Orphion may not have chosen her, or maybe he did. Maybe there was an endgame Orphion was playing that will put Lari's morals to good use. Anyway, this is definitely not the last we ever see of Lari. And yeah, she has a lot of flaws which I am not debating, I just think they are intentional.

(My personal hope is that Lari bursts out of the dern portal at the end of the Orphion fight to deliver the killing blow to the parasite, or just help you in the battle somehow).
Also, sorry if I came off as too harsh in my last post. I'm just very passionate about lore and story. :P

 

Nah, sorry if it also looked like I was being aggressive on any of my posts. I'm just here to talk about Lari's character and what I don't like about it.

 

Throughout my first statement nowhere did I mention that I hated Lari and despised her. I'm simply pointing out that I dislike her personality, not the devs that created her personality---which actually praised the devs for creating a character so detailed. In your long rant, not only did you attack people for disliking an online fictional Minecraft character, you assumed that everyone in the world is against you. Victim mentality. We're having a discussion and stating your own opinions, and you're out here taking the bullets that weren't shot in the first place. Again, take a look at the comments of people before your rant. We disagreed with each other, yeah! But that's the fun in discussions, listening to both (or more) sides of the argument. You're using WAYYYY over-exaggerated phrases to support your argument: "And for them to get massively shit on for it"....when did the wynncraft community do that? Do you see 10 lari hate posts on a daily basis? "I mean seriously, it's a video game quest not a full lenght feature film." Again, when did I say that the devs were expected to design characters with movie-quality personalities? Never. "Incase you still don't understand, Lari's character flaw serves to set up a charcter arc where she learns to abandon her morals for the good of the province. This character development enhances the story by adding more depth and meaning to her character, having this rather than just having one defining trait from other characters so that we can somewhat tell them apart makes her stand out among the other characters of Wynncraft." As stated previously, I never stated that Lari was a badly designed character. I never pointed out the she was a "bad character", and yet you assume such things, under the conditions that I *dislike* her as she's supposed to be portrayed. I don't dislike how Lari was created, but the end result---at that, not expecting the devs to do more, I just dislike her as the character that she was meant to be.

Edit: The last sentence might be confusing. I'm simply stating that I don't like Lari as a character. Would you accuse an 6-year-old child of "shitting on developers" and "brainwashed" if they said that they disliked Thomas the Train? No. It's the same logic here. Process your words before posting a comment.

 

I agree with this. I think Lari was intentionally created to make the player to feel annoyed, this serves to further her development as desperate and frantic as she tries to deal with the decay. A lot of this thread got super out of hand.

 

tig wrote a whole on hate speech essay on why disliking a fictional minecraft character makes the person ret*rded, which was what caused the argument to begin with.

 

This was actually the 2nd issue I had with her character that I mentioned in my rant, that her character arc feels more like a "character turn", I didn't bring that up in my original rant because obvuously would have been counter intuitive lol.

This is my #2 issue with the complaints about Lari, a bad personality =/= a bad character. People find her personality so annoying that they hate her character, but we aren't really supposed to like Lari untill part 5, hell, she tries to fucking kill us in part 4. Imagine if up untill then the player and Lari where super great buddies how awkward that fight would have been, it would have been out of nowhere.

?????

Explaining why the arguments against Lari don't make sense isn't "attacking" the people who made them, it's just my side of a debate. I wrote a grumpy essay about why Lari is a good character and why the arguments against her, as I just said, don't make sense. People think that because I was passionate in my post (which I'll explain in a minute) means I hate people that dissagree with me, it isn't like that at all, I'm totally okay with people disliking Lari. My problem is people give little to no reason to call her a bad character. There's a difference between something you personally dislike and something thats actually bad. What I mean by that is it's okay to dislike something that's good, and like something that's bad.

And the reason I'm so passionate about this is I don't want the devs to get discouraged from making characters like this. Seeing people taking a hefty shit on this character is demoralizing for them and I'm worried the devs are going to back off from stuff like this in the future because of it. I wouldn't blame them for this as they need to keep the majority of their playerbase happy if they want to stay up and running. So for me, the only way to deal with this problem is to attack the roots and try to explain to, or convince, the community that Lari is a good character. As such I wrote a passionate pursuasive essay and some have gotten the idea that I was trying to hurt people, which I wasn't, that was never my goal.

That's just how I talk mate.

Uhhh, what? Why do you think that comparison wasn't directed at you? It was just something I threw in there to help explain in general why this character may fall short in some areas.

Before I start this next little segment I'll preface that it's 100% ok to dislike her as the character she was meant to be, as you said.

Now for the segment. When people flood the replies of post, or even make new ones, of how much they hate Lari they imply that she's a bad character, wether explicitly stating it or not. If a random hadn't played this quest yet and saw all of the posts people have made about Lari then the common concensus would be that Lari is a shitty character. How about instead of people yelling about how Lari is annoying and has "annoying mental breakdowns" or some shit, why can't we acknowledge what was done well with this character (a lot)?

Basically when people read your post, and many other's posts, the most logical conclusion is that you think she's a bad character, wether you actually do or not.

The logic may be the same, but the context is not. The makers of Thomas the Train are rich as fuck and don't give a shit about what a few random 6 year olds think of their show, but Wynncraft is a much smaller more closely knit community so stuff like this is going to be much more impactful.

And the I used the "brainwashing" annalogy because the playerbase has been effectively brainwashed with characters like this. Wynncraft never gave them any reason to expect charcters with depth and personality because they never really had them before, so when Lari comes around nobody notices a lot of the depth to this charcter because Wynncraft never gave them a reason to look for it.

Really man? Fucking hate speech?

________________________________

WOAH WOAH. She's in Memory Paranoia?

 

Yes. She's in an added end cutscene in which Mr. Caritat is constructing the Caritat manor on top of the origin of the decay in an attempt to prove to the people of Gelibord that there was nothing to fear but Lari intervenes and says "Don't! It's the site in which an eldritch parasite came out of the ground!" and Mr. Caritat builds it anyway. It doesn't add a whole lot but it's nice to see how they are making Lari a consistent character around the western Gavel region. She's also in a few older quests that got improved such as Death Whistle and Rise of the Quartron. Again, it doesn't add too much but it does help blend the regions together better. Llevigar plains and the various forests/swamps felt very disconnected before 1.20 but since they added secrets/ultimates the whole province does feel a million times more polished

 

The bad character that I'm talking about isn't how she's designed. I simply dislike her as a character, as to how she is meant to be portrayed. Apparently, disliking a character the way a child would dislike a random tv show character is being braindead? Address my arguments. You point out that you aren't supposed to like Lari until rol part 5. I didn't! I made the thread before I completed the full quest! I stated that, at the time, I disliked lari, and that's it. I expressed my opinions, and you're saying that disliking a character is bad. I'm getting attacked for not loving a fictional online minecraft character. Sure, people may like Lari, I don't have a problem with that, but why are you having problems with people disliking her? Nowhere did I state that the developers did something wrong. The quote that your "???" was mentioning was basically saying that; as the developers are trying to portray Lari as a character with flaws, she is easily dislikable. As such, me disliking Lari was, to a degree, intended by the developers.

Again, throughout your entire retaliation, you were attacking the player base, being extremely rude. I disliked Lari---does that mean the wynncraft community dislikes Lari? No. It's the same logic for everything else. If you see 3 threads of people expressing their own opinions, does it mean that the entire wynncraft community agrees with them? No.

 

Btw--the main reason that I dislike Lari is because of how she's strapped to her morals, unable to act, despite being proven not taking action will cause death. It's her character design, yes, I get that! I get that Lari is designed as a character with flaws, which is why I dislike her. What's so hard to understand? Disliking a character doesn't mean I dislike the development team. The addition of a character with flaws adds depth to the game, and I enjoyed the rol quest experience more because of it. In fact, if I were given the ability to change things around, I wouldn't. I like how she is designed, but I dislike the IN-GAME product, not the development team. I've stated my personal opinions for over 3 times now. I don't dislike the CT, but Lari herself, which, again, is how she is supposed to be portrayed: a character with flaws, hence why I dislike her---AS THE CHARACTER, not her design.

Summed up: I like her design, how she adds depth to the game, but not the end result. I enjoyed the rol questline, but not Lari as her in-game character until rol 5.

 

Please actually read my post.

I thought I hit everything, if I missed anything please let me know .

My rant wasn't completely adressed to you specifically, it was adressed to kinda everyone that saw it as a whole.

Please actually read my post

I'm not attacking you, Jesus. Stop taking this shit so personally.

Please actually read my post

That's my point too, but your post didn't seem like you were praising the devs at all, which is where the "?????" came from.

Please actually read my post

The community is rather split on Lari, and theres a lot critisism about her. As such, I made my little rant and here we are, nothing your post changed any of my views regarding this, the only reason I posted on this thread was because it was effectively a Lari discussion thread so I threw my rant here. I've seen a whole lot more shit an Lari than a couple forum posts. She's extremely controversial and I just explained why she shouldn't be.

 

I'll stop the argument then. We can't seem to convince each other, but at least we know each other's standpoints.

 

Lol when I got to fight her I just used quake and one shot her. Most satisfying moment of this update so far.

 

Wait, you can kill her?
Also how did you even one shot her, is there any mechanic I'm missing in her fight?

 

Quake can do like 200k+ damage with Vanish.

 

Quake with the right build can hit over 200k damage.