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Champion Rank Has Ruined Proffing (and Bomb Parties In General)

Discussion in 'Wynncraft' started by TaintedL1on, Feb 18, 2021.

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  1. Azu

    Azu A-mage-ing

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    True, true. I guess the point I was trying to make is that it would remove Wynncraft from any potential legal hot water, but they would still face the wrath of the Playerbase. I do think that as long as the Bomb Bell is reasonably easy to unlock for us measly peasants that it would be "fair," though.

    Such blatantly PTW schemes should never exist in the first place of course, but now that we're here there isn't an option to backpedal. Let us all hope that the Wynn team learns from this deadly blunder and performs better in the future, seeing how once it is infinitely harder to remove PTW aspects of a game than to add them!
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2021
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  2. Greedus

    Greedus Knight of Wynn VIP+

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    Well then, I believe with your far superior intellect you can surely come up with a solution that appeases all parties? 'wrong ideas, bad arguments, entitled and stubborn people' may I ask that you expand upon this since I believe that most people here have made justified arguments: some champion features are clearly pay-to-win - which of course, like every one, you can clearly see.
     
  3. JaydonTheWarrior

    JaydonTheWarrior Nerf tanks, buff warrior. HERO

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    Are you going to answer my question yet by the way? I know you've been avoiding it, but I would really like a response.

    Oh, and in case you need me to remind you of the question:
    Ok, if you don't need bombs to play, then why not remove the bomb bell, and change reserved slots to be less stupid?
    Or do you only not need bombs to play when it benefits you?
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2021
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  4. Goden

    Goden Everlasting Excellency HERO

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    just here to still point out there is zero staff acknowledgement of this thread or this issue in general still

    yep
     
  5. Stormarend

    Stormarend The classes DO NOT correspond with the elements.

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    Before it goes any further, let me - though it may be naive of me to say so - do away with the "entitlement" argument once and for all. Let's say that we, indeed, as a community, are not in any way entitled to the bombs thrown on servers we are not currently in. This premise is highly debatable of course, but let's say it's true. The only conclusion that logically follows from people not being entitled to bombs, is that it is not objectionable to limit the access people have to bombs. For instance, lowering the player cap per server would be allowed. Sure, less people would have access to any one bomb thrown, but this is not a problem, as we've established that these people are not entitled to any bombs. This argument, however, only addresses half of the problem. To say: "people are not entitled to bombs, therefore Champion slots are okay" is a complete non sequitur. You may have explained why limiting access to bombs is fine, but you have yet to explain how that justifies Champions getting easier access to bombs. This is why I labeled a Champion claiming entitlement to Champion slots as circular reasoning. An inadequate explanation, whether intentionally used as an argument in favour of Champion slots or not, is relevant information and can be used in my argument. In order to prove that Champion slots should remain in the game, it is not only necessary to explain why non-Champions are not entitled to those slots, but also why Champions are.
     
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  6. Mistrise Mystic

    Mistrise Mystic Surfing winds and chasing windfalls HERO

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    Man, this thread is really getting nowhere fast
    Also, I feel like the bigger picture here is that the game feels like it’s being designed around bombs, which I think is a bigger issue than the champion rank itself. The champion rank is just putting a spotlight on what’s already pretty poor game design.
     
  7. ron111701

    ron111701 proffa CHAMPION

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    its not really a matter of laziness anymore if its a commitment of possibly thousands of hours to a game. most people have much better things to do that play wynncraft for that long
     
  8. HardcoreChan

    HardcoreChan Wynnian Photographer, Eye Pet Enthusiast CHAMPION

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    This thread was just destined to go nowhere since salted wont listen to critisism, since what he sees is what it needs to be, even if is a good or bad idea, as i said earlier on, people already complained about every single point made in this thread far off in the days of the beta, yet no one listened, so this thread as TaintedL1on said, is just a discussion, a discussion going nowhere but a discussion either way
     
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  9. TrapinchO

    TrapinchO retired observer of the wiki VIP+ Featured Wynncraftian

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    commitment to no real content, only grind

    or what he thinks it needs to be. It doesn't have to be necessarily correct.
     
  10. Prie

    Prie gaming HERO

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    sad part is that this will probably get locked lol
     
  11. HardcoreChan

    HardcoreChan Wynnian Photographer, Eye Pet Enthusiast CHAMPION

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    Yeah this, Salted prolly doesnt care about the state of the champion rank anymore, our complains just look like they're being thrown into the void without a mere thought, its rather demotivating tbh, and even more so for nons
     
  12. Viridian

    Viridian The Moviegoer Staff Member Mod Manager Moderator CHAMPION

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    I've cleaned up a few posts here - while we do encourage discussion, please keep in mind that we'd like you all to do so in a productive manner. This means a) stop harassing members for the opinions they might have, and b) stop posting content that does not add anything to the ongoing discussion.
     
  13. ChrisTheBear

    ChrisTheBear Certificate 3 in Nature Wandering CHAMPION

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    As a champion, I really hate that we take up normal slots instead of the champion slots, my idea (IDEA) would be to up champion slots to 10 and that's all the champions can get, if those 10 slots are full then they cant get into a world just like non-ranked players. Sometimes I leave worlds to let people in because I feel bad about taking up their slots

    Tell me if the idea is good or bad and why. Also bomb bell could even have a 2-3 minute wait until the notification pops up and I wouldn't be bothered by that, not a big change but still
     
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  14. Shortsightedness

    Shortsightedness Somehow the IGN doesn't change on forums VIP

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    Actually that would be completely terrible because it means that it will limit the number of champion ranks in a world, but it would be better for champions to filter into champion slots instead of filter into normal slots. Like when there's 39/40 players and another person joins, then 1 champion will get filtered into champion slots making the slots 39/40 and champion slots 1/5.
     
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  15. Greedus

    Greedus Knight of Wynn VIP+

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    This could actually work the only problem I see is that that would severely limit champions if only ten of them could join a world. All it would do is flip the problem on its head meaning non-champion players are fine but champions are not. I like the idea of increasing the notification though. My own idea would be to have it so that a random 1/10 of all champion players online get the notification at all.

    I also think they should make it so that when the bell is enabled, champions can't use /switch and likewise when /switch is enabled they can't use the bell and there would be a transition period of 5 minutes between toggling it on or off so champions can't just see the bell then toggle it off to switch.
     
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  16. Pixelæs

    Pixelæs just a mathematician

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    Here's my take on it:
    Champion, if you look at each feature separately, is relatively balanced. Bomb Bell by itself is slightly unbalanced, as is Champion slots, but by themselves, they are still somewhat okay. However, when you look at Champion as a whole, the combination of Champion Slots+Bomb Bell+/switch+Champion Slots bug, at least somewhat breaks the game. I agree that simply removing features could be considered unethical, but fixing bugs is a part of games: it's what Hero Beta and the time between updates and Bug Reports are all about, fixing bugs. Simply patching the Champion slot bug isn't something to be debated, after all, it is a bug, that is not part of the designer's intent.

    It mostly locks a good source of LE and content behind a paywall, unless you're willing to grind hundreds to thousands to tens of thousands of hours for it. Creating the best recipes for an item is the goal of a part of the community right now; so is leveling up professions to the maximum level and beyond, as well as creating and using the best builds, which sometimes use specialized crafted items. Plus, professions are a great source of LE currently, as T3 mats go for quite a lot, as well as perfect LQ gear, GXP and gather speed gear, and any piece of common crafted gear. Locking profs behind a $100-180 paywall screws over non-Champion proffers and grinders that compete for the highest spot on the leaderboard, as well as any player who is trying to get into profs. In theory, if there were enough Champions on, dungeon and grinding parties could effectively become locked behind a paywall as well.

    Overall, Champion has broken Wynncraft, and needs to be fixed. The Champion slots bug obviously needs to be fixed, as it is a bug. Bomb bell is debatable, as is /switch, but Champion slots are mostly alright as long as they do not take up normal slots. Raising the normal player cap to 45 or 50 would smooth things over, as the old player cap was 50, and with 5 Champion slots, raising it to 45 would make sense, as the servers are capable of handling 50 players. Bomb Bell is slightly unbalanced, so maybe a delay of somewhere between 2-7 minutes could balance it. /switch isn't too unbalanced without the others, and honestly, /switch isn't really much compared to mob totems and bombs.
     
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  17. 4Shady2Me

    4Shady2Me Well-Known Adventurer

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    In before they add another rank that becomes the only one able to find mythics in normal chests and upsets the loot runners.
    My contribution to this discussion is to support the idea of making champion slots take up those slots before taking normal slots.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2021
  18. Hams

    Hams Content Team Manager CT Manager Support Team Community Manager Builder

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    We have been reading everything and also discussing, some things i can personally say i understand for example the champion slots situation that i feel could be looked at, but we definitely need data on it, and unless there is a concrete thing in the works, it's difficult to formulate a proper reply. Some bugs should have been fixed now afaik, like how the servers were disregarding slot limits and players were joigning full servers, exceeding the server cap and champ slot limit.

    Yea i feel that would help too, higher player capacity is definitely always better if the network can handle it properly (also just to make that clear, it was reduced to mitigate the impact of the new players on the network). From what i've seen after checking at different times, the champion slots are not used excessively at this time, gotta see how it turns out over time and when the player cap gets moved up again.

    Not gonna happen ^^
     
  19. TaintedL1on

    TaintedL1on Remove Champion bomb bell CHAMPION

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    Thank you for taking time to look at the concerns shown here. Hopefully you can come to a solution that makes everyone happy.
     
  20. Fingolfin

    Fingolfin High king of the Noldor

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    champion is p2w , so you delete champion
    300px-Modern_Problems_Require_Modern_Solutions.jpg
    anyways , yes i think its p2w , although im not really affected by it i agree with the p2w side
     
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