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Champion Rank Has Ruined Proffing (and Bomb Parties In General)

Discussion in 'Wynncraft' started by TaintedL1on, Feb 18, 2021.

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  1. Stormarend

    Stormarend The classes DO NOT correspond with the elements.

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    That just raises the question: Why are you entitled to the bombs? You say they're not important, but I guess that they're important enough that they play a part in your buying a $180 rank and rigorously defend your exclusive access to them, which comes at the cost of other people. That screams entitlement to me You weren't the one who paid for those bombs. The person who did buy them didn't buy them for you specifically just because you donated to Wynncraft. I can play the "entitled" game too, you see. Apparently, up until Champion was added, everyone was entitled to bomb servers, so I can imagine why people feel cheated. Besides, what does my being entitled have to do with anything? What does any feeling of "entitlement" that you arbitrarily ascribe to people prove? Once again, the features the Champion offers are objectively and demonstrably unfair. Whether or not you think non-Champions are "entitled" to any advantage offered through bombs does not justify why Champions should have it. If you only choose not to hear me out because of my "entitlement" then that shows me that you're not willing to engage in critical though if the tone of your opponent is not one you approve of. I can't think of anything more petty.
     
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  2. ditsario

    ditsario it's always christmas somewhere in the world VIP+

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    It's not that hard to understand. Champion gives a clear and undeniable advantage with using bombs. The usage of that advantage directly harms other players and makes the game harder for them. People are upset about the game having become harder for them because of a pay to win feature. None of your nonsense about how we feel entitled to bombs or whatever can change what I just said. (For the record, I very rarely use bombs at all. This barely affects me personally at all, but I fully understand why others are upset about it, and I agree with them.)

    But also, if you actually look at profs and how long they take, you'll understand why people care so much about bombs. I once got all of them to 80 on one class, with bombs for a lot of the way, and even that took a really long time. Considering they take increasingly longer amounts of time at higher levels, I can't imagine trying to get to 100 (so they're actually useful for anything) with multiple craftings without bombs.
    ________________________________
    I feel this is where a lot of the disconnect comes in. It absolutely does, very greatly, change the professions gameplay loop. The four times speed increase I mentioned earlier wasn't an exaggeration - in fact, it somewhat downplays the actual effect of prof bombs. They make gathering actions twice as fast, give you twice as much xp, so 4 times speed for gathering. For crafting, they allow you to gather twice as fast, craft twice as fast, use half the materials, and give you twice as much xp, AND round down for material usage, so it can actually be more than the 16 times speed increase you get by multiplying the above buffs. Denying people a 4-16 times speed increase hugely changes the gameplay loop, and denying that makes your arguments seem very out of touch.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2021
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  3. Greedus

    Greedus Knight of Wynn VIP+

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    Fair point but this whole discussion could be applied to XP bombs, dungeon , loot and hell maybe even soulpoint bombs if they still exsist. It's not fair if you can't get into a dxp world cause its completely filled with champions because they paid for it. That directly gives them an advantage becuase they spent money.

    So do bombs not give you an advantage cause I always thought that having dxp means you level up twice as fast or dungeon bombs allow you to enter a dungeon for free? Is that not an advantage cause if it's not then I'm sorry I must be blind? I've also got a quick question for you too, now I've been trying to do profs and I'm not too high compared to some people,; my highest is lvl 85 woodcutting, my lowest lvl 40ish scribing, I was wondering if you yourself have done any profs?
     
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  4. Skylaar

    Skylaar Archer Archetype Analyzer VIP+

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    There are many other players in each world that would be able to benefit from the bomb, champion just allows being able to switch to that server if theyre on another server, and even then there are still limited slots so not all champion-ranked players can get to the server at all
     
  5. Mrussell75

    Mrussell75 Full-time Wynner CHAMPION

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    It doesn't harm people, because the identity of Wynn craft isn't have double xp alway
    so what you are saying is its unfair you can't leech off of other people's money as much anymore, and that's harming YOU???
     
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  6. Greedus

    Greedus Knight of Wynn VIP+

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    Yeah, I understand on a few occasions I've been lucky enough myself to be in the right world at the right time but the problem lies with /switch coupled with bomb bell. Heros can /switch as well but champions get the notification since you have to think that not everyone is gonna to shout that they're throwing a bomb. Therefore, Champions have a huge advantage over those without it as they can reap the benefits of the bomb simply because they piad more money. It's as if you've been waiting in a queue for ages and then suddenly someone pays to be infront of you, I think we can all agree we may be slightly annoyed about that no?
    ________________________________
    No, I think they mean it's unfair that champions pay money to leech off other peoples money more
     
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  7. Stormarend

    Stormarend The classes DO NOT correspond with the elements.

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    Circular reasoning2.jpg
     
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  8. Mrussell75

    Mrussell75 Full-time Wynner CHAMPION

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    very strong attempt of doing something however, you must be daft if you think my reasoning is because I am a champion I deserve my champion slots and thats why they should stay in the game
    , my reasoning like I've stated over and over is that the only reason people care about champion slots is because they feel entitled to bombs, then you said how am I entitled to my champion slots and which I replied I paid for them simple, never did I use that as my reasoning for why they are in the game, A+ for effort thought. Players being entitled to bombs they didn't pay for, and me being entitled to slots I paid for are completely different topics. You are wrong because you misstated my argument
     
  9. TrapinchO

    TrapinchO retired observer of the wiki VIP+ Featured Wynncraftian

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    No, but if you can access them you have an advantage. And if you having an advantage lowers the chances for others then you disadvantage them.
     
  10. bloww

    bloww Shoutbox Fancam Account HERO

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    bro why are you even trying anymore you keep nitpicking single sentences in entire walls of text from everyone and repeating the same things over and over again
    either start making coherent responses or just stop replying if you think youve made your point idk
     
  11. HardcoreChan

    HardcoreChan Wynnian Photographer, Eye Pet Enthusiast CHAMPION

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    Wdym ''MY champion slots''? suddenly you're the only one entitled to them?, and also, you're not entitled to bombs either just because you paid a 180$ paywall, bombs are made to give everyone a chance, champion slots just break that desing, so yes, e v e r y o n e should get a chance to use bombs, your argument that they dont disadvantage if you dont have them is a flat out lie, the champ slots should just be reworked so that they're not unfair to nons
     
  12. HV_Metal

    HV_Metal Convergence VIP

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    Is it really hard to fix Champion slots so people occupying them aren't moved instantly to a regular slot once one frees and thus makes it harder or even impossible in a reasonable ammount of time for non-yellow people to join a party server?

    With this solution one could still enjoy the perks of Champion slots they so so much feel entitled for (or they don't feel), without shitting over everyone else because they didn't feel like spending 160-180$ on this dumpster.

    Again, Champions could keep their slots and choose to compete for regular empty slots with everyone else the traditional way, or pray for one of the very limited slots to open, and everyone else could keep going with their lives and compete amongst themselves.

    Obviously this is not the absolute ultimate grand infinity+1 solution to the problem, but a possibility for a relatively good start that does not involve depriving people of something they paid for.
     
  13. ditsario

    ditsario it's always christmas somewhere in the world VIP+

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    Firstly:
    Sure, yeah, we must be daft for assuming your previous statement in this argument is part of your reasoning for your position. That makes lots of sense.


    Secondly:
    did
    did you read what i said
    like it or not, bombs are the norm for high-level profession grinding
    this is, of course, a problem with profs, but seeing as it's not being fixed, champion makes it much worse. it also affects other bombs, although dxp isn't necessarily the norm for combat xp grinding, it just helps a lot

    also, as trapincho said:
    case and point, champion disadvantages others, quit trying to avoid this argument with your "entitled" bs



    this
    this is much worse than the nonsense you spewed above
    seriously, i explicitly stated that i personally am not affected by champion, and your response is still that i want to leech other people's money, and i only care about this because champion harms "YOU???"
    you either didn't read my post that you're replying to, or you did read it and you're deliberately lying to make me look bad.

    i'm not arguing with you anymore, if i can't get you to read a few short paragraphs of arguments and actually respond to what i said at all, what's the point?
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2021
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  14. Stormarend

    Stormarend The classes DO NOT correspond with the elements.

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    You do realise now that you're digging an even deeper hole for yourself, right? Now you're just complaining that the reason people are against Champion slots is entitlement, rather than actually challenging the legitimacy of their claim itself. If you say that it's impossible to jump off of a three-storey building and survive and I jump off of a three storey building and survive, you might (in this case rightfully) claim that I'm a fucking idiot and had no reason to do that, but I would still be right. If this isn't your argument in favour of Champion slots, then what is? You still have to prove that it is logical that Champion has an advantage over non-Champion players. I encourage you to actually make an argument (and if it includes "because I paid for them" or any reference to the entitlement of the community, then please refer to my previous posts).
     
  15. Greedus

    Greedus Knight of Wynn VIP+

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    @Mrussell75

    You do actually understand that some features are 100% pay-to-win, right? Hence, why most of us think they are bad since they clearly advantage champion players over non-champion players or do you genuinely not see that?
     
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  16. TrapinchO

    TrapinchO retired observer of the wiki VIP+ Featured Wynncraftian

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    I am on your side lol
    Read it again, I am literally saying the features are bad.

    EDIT: I was told the reply was not directed to me
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2021
  17. Azu

    Azu A-mage-ing

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    Wait a minute, wouldn't that violate the EULA and Minecraft's ToS?

    Pay-To-Win junk is explicitly banned in Minecraft's ToS, and the Bomb Bell is in clear violation of that. It gives those who have purchased the Champion Rank an unfair advantage against those who have not. What truly drives this home is the fact that it is exclusive to the Champion Rank though.
    Some may argue that because crafting is a "side activity" it is justified, but I would counter by saying that crafted items can have an obvious edge over other gear at all levels.

    The way I see it, the consequences of leaving the Bomb Bell as-is and taking it away would both spell disaster. On one hand, Wynncraft faces legal ramifications- on the other, they face potential financial losses from their top whales. Not all things are black and white however, so that's why I believe in making the Bomb Bell somehow unlockable by us peasant folk.


    Also, I get how you feel- arguing with whales can be like talking to a brickwall at times! It is important to realize that their defensiveness stems from a fear of perks being taken away though, so that's why I am trying to seek a middleground that satisfies everybody.
     
  18. Greedus

    Greedus Knight of Wynn VIP+

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    I agree with what you say but the although this may seem to make the issue better, it also doesn't - or in some regards worse since if the bell can be unlocked, it means champions have used money to bypass this which is still just as Pay-to-win. It's just like those mobile games, where the money can be earned over time but you can also buy it, therefore although technically everything is equal, those who bought the money have used significantly less time than those who earned it.
     
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  19. ramenstew

    ramenstew professional idiot HERO

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    oh my god I thought I had escaped this when I moved here
    alright I'm just gonna explain some stuff

    Violating Minecraft's EULA is hard to do and also doesn't mean shit: Technically Champion rank doesn't give an exclusive benefit since you can still use bombs as non champion, it's just that it's harder to get into bomb lobbies. And even if it does, HSB has done this but 10x over and they're going on perfectly fine.

    However, they should definitely fix the overflow issue. It's dumb and needs to be solved.
     
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  20. _Johku

    _Johku hi HERO

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    just make the champion slots not take up normal player space

    problem fixed

    champions can get in servers more easily and normal players still have a good chance at getting in
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2021
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