Champion Is Pretty Fair And Should Be In The Game - Change My Mind

Have you met anyone who says they have? I've met people who said they wouldn't even consider using it.

 

It's not a topic that I suddenly start talking about when I meet people randomly in Wynn, so I can't tell if the people whom I have met were using them or no.

 

So what, you're just accepting that because people paid a lot of money, it's perfectly acceptable to make their features pay to win? They could have got something out of it without making the game worse for everyone else. If my rank got pay to win features that disadvantage other players directly, I'd say that was unfair, even if I paid for it.

What? Why? Who's actually saying we should remove it? All I've seen are arguments between people who think it should stay and everyone's just whining or something, and people who think it should be changed to be less unfair to nons. If you support changing champion, why'd you make this thread? Did you actually expect people to be able (or even want) to convince you that champion should be removed?

 

I haven't seen a single person say they use it, so you can't automatically assume they do

The features don't affect unranked players, excepting the bomb bell. I support changing the bomb bell delay to be longer, but even as of now it's pretty fair because you would normally get pinged within seconds of a party happening.

Ok yeah I worded it badly. I've been convinced it probably should be altered a bit, but I still think even in it's current state people shouldn't constantly whine about it being p2w

 

Everyone understands the wynncraft team need money but it seems weird to earn money a new m0st expensive rank that few people will actually buy sure maybe say there are a hundred champions, probably more, but wouldn't it be wise to introduce something cheaper that more people will buy more of, like new bombs or something. Champion is a 1 time purchase if they really need the money why didn't they make it a subscription service like their original plan???

So why lock it behind a pay wall, people wouldn't consider them as storage but they use them subconsciously as storage since they might buy a few to display some armor but that's still storage unless you mean they don't use them at all in which case, back to my first point, why lock it behind a paywall and such a high one as well?

 

They were about to make it a subscription service but there was so much collective outrage and anger and people saying that they would never buy it if it was a subscription that they decided to make it a 1 time purchase

As a QOL change for people who often swap between lootrunning builds and combat builds and the like as incentive to buy Champion

 

It goes the opposite way too: Since I haven't seen people talk about it, I cannot automatically assume they don't use it. And in the end it does not disprove the great benefits armour stands can give. I can't see "feature that gives definite advantage is good to stay since noone has used it yet" as a valid argument either. We may have to agree to disagree on this topic.

 

Hmm. I still think it's incredibly inefficient as storage, since the build has to actually function and you'll withdraw all the equipment at once and wear it when you take it out. I asked around in Atlas Inc and some of them disagreed with me, but all of them said build stands are incredibly inefficient as storage.

 

The only two features I think that are unfair are pet-to-bank (which I think shouldn't be added at all) and /switch to get into bomb parties (which I've already made a thread on). Other than that, most of the features seem about what you'd expect; perks that make the game nicer but don't unfairly give them an advantage or negatively impact other players' experience (actually, a case could be made for the limited housing space for rankless players). I think a lot of people overreacted to the ranks perks when they were announced, and that the majority of them (including the bomb bell, since they made it less abusable) are relatively fine. That said, I think that they really should change/remove those perks' abusable features because at least the /switch thing is blatantly pay-to-win.

However, I can also see why some people were concerned about it. In addition to some of the features sounding or being rather questionable, this is the first time since 2014 that a rank has sounded less like "donate to get some cool perks" and more along the lines of "pay to unlock the full experience", which is a road I don't want to go down. I think that as it is, it stayed on the side of "okay", but I can definitely see someone having some concern.

 

I'm wondering why this is unfair, if you don't have the Champion rank, like me, you could just go on the discord or just hop through servers for a little bit.

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Ty :D

I don't why many people are complaining about this, I don't even have a rank. To people like me, all changes in the Champion rank are less important than 6 mob totems a day in the Hero rank.

I don't think that convenience is not p2w.

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I don't really care about the bomb parties, because so many people have already been talking about it, and I think it's just convenience and people are overreacting, but is there a problem with the pet-to-bank feature? I haven't heard anyone talking about that yet, and I can't find any info on it.

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Don't the Champions have their slots, though?

If they are taking up real slots I think that's a glitch...

 

they can get notification of these bombs sooner than others, making it unfair.

champions will take up normal slots before champion slots, which was an intended feature. champion slots are only there for when a lobby is full, meaning champions can still join it.

 

Okay, but I see a lot of half-filled lobbies with Champion slots still filled.

Maybe that's a glitch?

 

Gonna have to side with ramenstew here, whilst you cannot assume they don't use it if they don't talk about it, if you had to make an assumption, it's much more logical to assume that the thing they don't talk about is something that isn't used.

Also, what you said before on it:

It's really not, Atlas INC consists of (almost) only rich people with alot of different items, if anyone were to use build stands as storage, it's them.

A better analogy would be if you looked at the 100 poorest people (Those most likely to NOT have 100 dollars on them) in the world and asked 10 of those wether or not they currently had 100 dollards but they all said yes. It'd be reasonable to assume that, in that case, everyone in the city has at least 100 dollars.

 

Pet-to-bank basically means that they get extra inventory spaces, which is kind of really broken (I get that there's a timer to make it less broken, but that doesn't change the fact that they just flat out get more inventory space). /Switch is the bigger offender though; it makes it much harder for someone who isn't hero+ to get into a dungeon party or profession party or if someone's throwing a lot of item bombs. That basically just means that hero+ players get access to easier xp, profession leveling and emeralds in a way that actually decreases the availability of those for people with no/lower rank, which is not only pay-to-win, it's pay-to-win in a way that actually takes things away from people who didn't pay.

 

People keep on talking about how Champion is unfair - which I agree with (kinda), but if you don't like it please suggest other things Champion could have instead of the current p2w features.

 

Do we?

 

fixed it
let me into atlas inc i got kicked out of tnl i think

 

I can't entirely disagree.

It's a logical fallacy to draw the conclusion that because a certain group of people doesn't do something, then nobody does.

The proposed analogy isn't much different: you still draw the false conclusion in the end. In my analogy you ask anyone whether they have money and assume in the end after a few positive responses that everyone (including the poorest) have the same ammount of money too, which is exactly intended to point out how messed up this way of thinking and arguing is.

I took another look at Salted's screenshot I mentioned in an earlier argument and in one regard (I could have probably noticed it sooner) I have to agree they may be a little inefficient: it costs 2 soul points to take off the entire set. It may be another 2 to put the unneeded items back. Then it may cost you another 4 points if you need a different item from another armour stand. And if you really are unlucky then you'll have to spend another 4. In a worst case scenario you end up with 1 soul point for assembling a build.

So yeah, this one thing would make me question whether I would store certain items via stands or not.

 

Well, firstly, I think the current p2w features would be a lot better if they were available to other ranks/nons, but much less so. For example, maybe vip gets one build stand, hero gets 2, champion gets unlimited. Or, say, pets are 1-20 for nons, 1-40 for vip, 1-60 for vip+, 1-80 for hero, and 1-100 for champ, with more features/upgrades moved to 80-100 so champion still gets much more access to the perks. (Also, champ slots NEED to be changed so they don't fill normal slots when someone not in a champ slot leaves. Champions can have their slots, sure, but as it is that also means they have all the normal slots no matter what.)

In exchange, I think champion should have more crates than hero - either a t3 or multiple t2s per day. It seems strange to add p2w features to make it worthwhile instead of this. Also, it could have access to a few NEW champion-exclusive cosmetics from crates, so it could have a monopoly on some non-gameplay things for once. Lastly, this one has been a bit of a controversial suggestion before, but I think the idea of champion bomb throwers getting an extended duration on their bombs should be looked at. If it, or something similar, could be implemented without discouraging non-champions to throw bombs, it would be a really nice champion perk that doesn't harm non-champions in any way.

 

Well now everyone that thinks champion is at least slightly p2w (so pretty much everyone) actually has a valid argument to saying the current p2w features should be changed.

Anyway these are pretty good solutions, maybe one or two extra features would be nice