Discussion in 'Wynncraft' started by shagz, Dec 11, 2018.
Truly an Economy Update >.>
Also, a little off topic, but everyone, please do not listen to Dr Zed until he decide to actually try the update. He's objectively worse at facts than regular players, and isn't worth your time.
Apparently not only mods
oof that was a big burner
Wait slated responded on a thread about discussion. Well, it was to correct a misconecption, but still, intresting to see that slated still keeps looking around the forum for information.
If we learned anything from this, it was:
1) Slated can burn bad
2) Zed needs to play the game more
3) Slated is a lurker
Nope, I just saw @Salted completely disregard @Nepeta Leijon and @Dr Zed 's arguements and attack a player for giving feedback. @Dr Zed has played the update, which is how he's able to give credible feedback. Lack of available ingredients is at least still a valid arguement.
The way ingredients are set up, it's possible to make some really insane combinations really early. I think at one point Major was showing off something like a 24% walk speed crafted ring at Lv 16? Of course, he knows where to look and find these, and not everyone else does, so try exploring around and searching for lots of rare mobs. You'll find more than you might expect.
Also, didn't mean any offense with the joke there. Wasn't meant to be a "who is right and who is wrong" but rather just a "oh, this is an applicable joke to the situation" thing. I'll try to be more careful in the future about it.
Attack? I just copied his previous sentence and changed words around for the meme. I've read all other feedbacks (multiple times too), we've had discussions in the CT on how to improve things and at this point it's mostly repeating the same arguments. Some of them I agree, some I don't, but me answering them with "true dat" won't do much, and wasting half an hour to write a complete answer (to every single ones too) just takes time away from the update itself, which nobody wants. Just know that every bit of feedback is read, even if we don't answer to all of them.
Wow, this thread has gotten really off-topic :P
I played the Beta for a total of about 10 hours on three separate classes. I'm level 11 on my archer, 13 on my warrior, and 38 on my assassin. I'm level 9 on both cooking and armoring, and level 3 in tailoring on my archer, and level 20 in weapon making on my warrior. I grinded for 2 hours just to reach mining level 25 and woodworking level 20 on my warrior, even though the Decrepit Sewers was broken and I couldn't get the higher level tools. That is a fact. I’ve been trying my hardest to give thoughtful and detailed feedback and talk with other players about their thoughts about the crafting system. I didn't go into this hating system. Otherwise I wouldn't have put the amount of time I did, spent $40 just to try it, and type more words than I wrote in school this whole semester during finals week.
And instead of just politely pointing out a simple fact I got wrong, you have to take it a step farther and insult me by saying I haven’t even tried the Beta, while still ignoring most of what I and Nepeta said. You had all this time to respond to mine and everyone else's criticism's about the crafting system in the Beta Feedback, but you haven't addressed a single iota about the criticisms I and others posted in the Beta Feedback.
You know I didn’t really expect this from an owner of all people. It was one thing that @Alexdacube was calling us lazy for voicing criticism of the crafting system. It's a whole other thing when it comes from the owner. The only person on the CT that took the time to fully address the criticism in a polite and constructive way is @ConquistadorBob, which I thank him for that.
So you know what? The only thing that was a waste of time was playing the Beta and giving feedback just to get insulted. I'm done giving feedback if this is what you're just going to do. I'm done trying to understand others if they're just going to insult me and ignore most of what I have to say.
Lazy criticism by suggesting that we buff crafted items even further (hmmm lets see even more op potions than the ones shown), remove crafting levels and generally bashing on the update. I'm sorry you got called out hard on this thread, don't dig yourself a deeper hole by trying to call me out. You and your "band" are constantly replying and making threads with the exact same shit without providing realistic fixes to your "supposed issues" just stop...
I spent so much time talking to other players and writing in addition to playing the game. I made an entire thread with my criticisms, https://forums.wynncraft.com/threads/the-crafting-gathering-system.238702/. How is that lazy criticism then?
Yikes. I can see this thread slowly devolving toward a lock.
That is the worst defense you could have come up with. It is still an attack. What @Dr Zed was
He isn't attacking someone, he's criticizing the system for being unbalanced and worse than the potions that are already in the game.
So yes, your statement is an attack. Just because you think memes make everything funny, doesn't mean it's true, or that you can't use them offensively.
That's understandable, but attacking players that try to provide in-depth analysis and potential solutions is still wrong. If you're willing to waste time insulting people who want to help, then why bother hosting a Beta in the first place. That's directly attacking the people trying to make a difference. It's one thing to not respond because you're busy. It's another to take time away from making the update just to insult a player. It's shameful. The other mods and CT are actually discussing with the players, but you seem to have not been informed: players have opinions.
What if his solutions are terrible ideas ???
That doesn't negate the fact that he can have his own opinions on what will improve the update. As I said
Okay guys, let's all calm down. This thread has gone very off-topic, it was meant to be a discussion about whether the secret feature is an auction house or not, not to discuss the 1.18 update. You can discuss the update in the hero beta feedback section, but please keep it friendly. There's no need for name-calling, no need to make fun of people, and no need to get angry at each other. This is a game after all, it's meant to be fun! If you need something to help you relax, you should watch this cat transcend to godhood.
Thanks for understanding.
Okay, let's cool everything down a bit:
You probably don't hear this much, but I really appreciate what you've contributed to the discussion. I've been really interested in the update, and you've been nothing but helpful and kind to me when answering my dumb questions. I also think that the conclusions you came to about the new stuff is fair, especially since you haven't had the chance to max out any stats yet.
That being said, I do think salted has a point. As an outsider, that last comment from him looked like a joke, but idk, could just be me. It was cool for him to show off what potion crafting can lead too though (Even if I disagree with the circumstances of how he did it).
Anyways, please don't take it too personally. I'm sure the devs are under a lot of stress right now, and even constructive criticism could be seen by them as attacks on their work. It isn't anybody fault, just the nature of the situation.
Once again, thanks for all the work you've put in to documenting the beta!
I get what you're saying, but at some point it's just adding grease to a bonfire. I'm not familiar with what you do (apart from being a builder) but I'm sure you've worked really hard on the update and it sucks to see people criticize a project you've worked on. I don't disagree with you, but I don't think you communicated your criticisms in a fair way. I don't want to make this an attack on you though, cause I'm sure you've had plenty of shit thrown your way, I just wanted to point out that what you said could be seen as an attack even if you didn't really mean to make it out to be that way. Thanks for understanding, and more importantly all the hard work you've put in!
Damm, I started typing 20 min ago. Sorry for being redundant :(
Great link btw :D
Well geez, alright, didn't expect that reaction. I legitimately wrote that as a copypasta meme, not an attack. It's not because I paste a navy seal pasta that I actually mean the insults and am pissed off. Sorry if it came out that way, not my intention.
It took me more time to go "wait, did we not add that feature?" and having to test it than posting a screenshot of the results. I clearly didn't do it the right way, but all this came out of me looking for feedback and testing it. It's way easier to post a screenshot and copy paste text than having to write a proper response to a huge block of text. I'll answer something though, since you seem to really want an answer to crafting levels:
Crafting levels exists for a few reasons, not just to be a dick and make you waste time and resources. First, it increases the value of high level items. If we let anyone craft anything, then crafted items would lost a lot of value and become even more useless. Secondly, it encourages end-game players to craft good items and sell some of those to low level players instead of throwing them out. If levels were removed, nobody would craft good stuff for low levels and they would be left out of the market. Third, using high tier resources and ingredients allows you to really, really fly out of the early levels. Current end-game peeps will generally know about it, causing them to buy good resources from others to power-level and, like the crafted items, will create a market for low level ingredients and resources. Fourth, we want situations to happen where somebody gets known as a great X, and can use that fame to craft amazing and unique items using their secret recipe and sell them for a premium. Without levels, those would become too common and so, not as special to be worth spending time on great recipes. In the end, we don't think crafting levels will be as big of an issue as some people make it seem. Sure, it's not optimal if you're currently level 100 and want to craft good stuff right away, but it will eventually fix itself with time. One of the goals with this update was to create a way to gain wealth without RNG, and that requires us to increase value one way or another that isn't too random. Levels helps us distribute that wealth from the top players to the bottom ones and allow us to avoid using crazy RNG and instead use time and efforts. And if it turns out you don't want to go through the trouble of leveling up your crafting levels, then great, it just increases the value for crafted items from people that actually did.
In the end I ain't saying we did everything perfectly, but we do have goals with these systems. The focus of the update is the economy, and I feel some players forget that part with their feedback and focus mostly on doing everything alone. Can't blame them though, the beta has only been there for a week and is very limited in players. We'll clearly keep looking at feedback after release too, and improve where we can.
We also agree that low level crafting is hard, maybe a bit too much. If you're a legit new player, you won't know where to find the good ingredients. At the same time though, we can't just buff ingredients randomly because they use IDs, and IDs progression is very slow compared to base damage/health on items. It might cause them to be too good and mess up the end-game meta even more. Boosting the base values can work, but to a limit. If every item you craft is always better than the ones you find playing normally, it's boring and ain't a great fun either. We need to find a balance and that takes time, and we don't have every solutions planned out yet. One that we are trying right now though is to give very good untradable ingredients in the low level quests.
It's always a bit scary to write detailled answer to feedback because we are guaranteed to get a lot of "no that's false, here's how it should work/what will happen" and end up at the same spot we were before but with even more pissed off players who thinks we're dumbasses and don't know what we're doing. But roughly, we think:
- Low level crafting is too hard for newbies to make interesting/strong stuff (currently got a potential solution to help with that)
- Crafting levels have a use and we don't plan to remove them (progression might be too slow in the mid-game, but it's hard to tell atm)
- Having to level up your low level crafting professions isn't too bad if you trade and are high level, giving value to low level resources
We might be wrong on some of those, but we think it's worth trying it out and wait to see before making big changes to the whole system. We'll always stay up to date on feedback and make sure we do it right, that's for sure.
Stag is right though, let's go back to the actual thread topic.
Thank you so much :D
I was waiting this forevery Yessss.
I'm for jokes and all, but this isn't really the way to do it. Sure, if you quoted the same post it was said in, it would be understandable, but there's no indication it wasn't honest. Many people use jokes to convey something dead serious and this definitely seemed like it. Also trying to create copypastas is just a bad idea and I doubt anyone would wanna copy-paste this since there's nothing really meme-worthy about it.