Are Element Tanks Balanced?

Well technically its sp isn't really dominant over other ids as a foothold because it easily overwhelms Blue Mask.

 

The skill points on Morph Stardust don't help make my build work or anything.

Maybe I should've kept my old pre-Gavel Blue Mask instead of giving it to the Item Buyer....

 

I feel like the items are overused because of the fact that every build needs (or benefits from) elemental defenses and skill points, and Morph-Stardust, Prism, and other similar items get this done while not having incredibly terrible drawbacks (none for Morph-Stardust's case). This leads to them becoming viable choices for any class by default, and being the baseline item to compare benefits to.

For example, Aquarius can replace Boreal-Patterned Aegis (for mana / spell builds) only because it gets enough Mana regen to invest the freed item slots to make up the lost tankiness. Every skillpoint ring is compared to Prism, and the reason for using any of them is similar to examples like Aquarius vs Boreal-Patterned Aegis, where their "drawbacks" (such as lower defenses and skillpoints) are compared to their benefits (mana regen for Summa and health and other useful ids for Diamond Fusion, for example) and tested off of there.


More of these item battles happen as well.

Morph-Stardust vs any other helmet

Hephaestus-Forged Greaves vs any pants used in air, fire, thunder, or low health builds

Gaea-Hewn boots vs most boots that give melee, exploding or tanking ability

And many more, such as the LI fusion bracelet, LI fusion necklace, and Prism


I feel Gemini is a special case that is only used for rainbow tank builds, and so isn't as overprevalent (it also has to compete with Hephy for that massive health boost). I also believe Hive items are supposed to be incredible as they are so hard to get, but maybe not this powerful (definitely stronger than pre-buff, but becoming so powerful that people will level entire classes to 100 just to get the benefits is maybe a little OP). Anima-Infused Helmet is not as present because it gives the lowest raw defenses, and has to compete with Morph-Stardust for skillpoint roles.

tl;dr IMO, rainbow items are everywhere because more specific replacements are not worth the defense and skill point drop

 

I think they are a little OP and definitely overused.
I mean, who wouldn't want to be defended against all elements?
It's OP because an element tank build can make Cata, a dagger built for glass cannon, tanky. Or, at least, not glass cannon-y (except it still does a lot of damage).
But there are flaws in this style of build. If you know the phrase "Jack of all trades, master of none," you can see what I mean. The thing with element tanks is that you don't have an exceptionally good defense... in anything. It's all spread out. And going against a mob that specializes in a specific type of damage (or PvP, which is far more likely, because elemental tanks can solo LI), the fact that you've spread your defense around isn't a good thing. But you can tank anything in the game, so it doesn't matter. Right? (no this is not the part where I reveal some startling revelation about elemental tanks. I don't have any of that kinda thing.) I personally have no issue with them being overused (because that's just what happens. The player base finds something better than average, and everyone jumps on the bandwagon. And there's nothing wrong with that). But I think it could be nerfed. How? Uh... (great now I have to take in +atk speed and a whole bunch of other stuff in my super nerdy calculations that I am totally doing, yeah.)

Anyway, it's my thought that the items themselves are not specifically OP, but combined with the system (things like +atk speed, ls, hp/mana regen/steal, etc.), they are fairly OP. But not in the same way that Pure was once OP (remember that haha).
I'm going to stop typing now.

 

Broken? No shit.
If u think element def tank is already broken like u won't do 'good' damage on your opponent is ur problem, meaning u just don't have 'good' enough damage, don't blame the element defs in pvp.
I barely play pve in wynn so I won't say about it much.
But really, if element def tank isn't a mage, poison can do the job to kill them, idc if it's just 'broken' as u see like that or it's one of the game design in pvp. Also, I won't say poison build is broken because it's so easy to counter them, don't u know that making a build with 13k poison needs wt kinds of sacrifices on its build?
Back to topic, element def tank is just overrated. But for me, tbh I don't see like 4-500 raw element rainbow def can really do 'good' defs as u guys said. It acts for blocking some low damage legendary weapons but they won't do shit to a mythic.

 

I feel proud to have only two builds that utilize hive items and no builds that use rainbow items

Rainbow builds are broken as hell and nerfing them would be great. The problem is that rainbow builds should give slight elemental boosts, so they take less damage from rainbow but more damage from single element and dual element weapons, just as dual element and tri element builds take less damage from some elements but more in others. However, the current rainbow builds give the same amount of defense IN EACH ELEMENT than most regular items give IN ONE, with no downsides

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That would just make people use Nii Shako or something

 

Fucking Dont.

 

The way i see it, the buffs on damage from skill points are too good, neutral weapons only buff from skill points is Strenght, but then it gets outclassed by earth melee builds. If you buffed neutral weapons or nerfed element damage I think elemental tanks would be less used, also its kind of weird that most of the high level skill point items also have rainbow defence (morph star and prisms)

 

Its simple. Right now super slow weapons are broken as shit for the same reason very/super fast doesn't do as much. Base damage. The spell multiplier isn't in the right place, so you'll need very slow weapons with high base dmg to beat elemental tanks. That is broken, imo. Fatal's damage, for example, can be completely negated without much trouble. Rip any thunder/air weapon.

If that gets fixed imo tanks are balanced again.

 

Elemental defences have always been really good. There being builds out there that can simply ignore damage from any weapon exept cataclysm is just absurd and should not exist. Hive items play a big role since they have the most elemental defences out of anything, yet nerfing them would be a bad idea since they are supose to be the best items in the game that you can only get once every class.

Does that mean gemini needs a nerf? In my opinion no. Using gemini already requires 70 agility and 70 dexterity, giving you little room for defense and since i feel like the problem here is defense+elem tank gemini is fine.

Morph stardust? Perhaps... its a helmet very easy to get and is just so good overall. Good elem defenses combined with good sp and even mana regen. A small nerf would not hurt here, but then again we will only have that nerfed at the end of the day, so elem tanks will still be really good.

My suggestion? First of all change the whole system nerfing elem defenses a tiny bit as a whole, making it easier for weapons to pierce trough it. Now you still think hive would outshine everything, then you are correct. But instead of nerfing good items, why dont we think about buffing not used items? That way there will be WAY more veriaty in builds. Warchief would be a viable build and would compete with hive boots if it wasent for the -80 in every element on warchief. Hetusol sees little use over hive chestplate because hetusol has -elemental defences. Vaward is a good endgame pair of pants, yet if someone had the choise between hive and vaward they would pick hive almost instantly just because vaward has no defensed compared to hives insane defenses.

I am not suggesting every item to be on par with hive item power level. But buffing some of the not/almost not used endgame alternatives so they dont all get outshined by the top meta picks wouldn't be a bad idea in my opinion.

 

No plz

 

Either that should be upped to prevent use with rainbow items, or the amount of skill points amd defense rainbow items give should be nerfed

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>Suggesting Vaward needs a buff

But seriously it's one of the most used pants in the game. If anything, Sagittarius is the pants that needs a buff

 

And I do think that a rainbow tank build is fine and balanced in a PvE and (to some extent) a PvP situation, though I concur with previous posts on the opinion that some rainbow items are simply overused.

 

I am just stating, if everyone in the server had a pair of hive pants and a pair of vawards, over 80% would pick hive. This isnt about how vaward needs a buff, its about how elemental defenses are influencing the choise of endgame armor way more than it should.

 

Now I think about it, the biggest problem isn't that there is not an alternative, its that people don't see alternatives, because tanks don't require skill.

Even though I still think someone needs to take a look at the formula and +tier bs, I think it's mainly the people just not thinking about a different way to play.

 

high agl on a build can easily replace a tank build and its just as easy

 

Really not that good on its own, you'd need to build ws or mana instead of pure damage, otherwise you're still glass af.

 

you need mana on any build but how can you be glass af with 70-80% dodge rate?

 

One hit and you're dead.

 

For people who never played an elemental tank.
There's a glitch in the damage display system.
No, Elemental tanks DO TAKE DAMAGE, NONE OF THEM TAKE 0 DAMAGE.
The amount of damage reduced is just by a lot, But not to 0.
I personally really do think elemental tanks are a bit broken but let's not forget about stuff like Cataclysm that can basically one shot most tanks out there and the fact that it can be also used in the tank build?
Or poison that has this annoying knockback + literally 0 way to dodge or reduce it's damage?
If you "Nerf" elemental defense before all of those things, Depends on the way you do it, Elemental Tanks will go from being semi-overpowered to extremely underpowered.

Here's a video of me using my old meta-tank Mage, If you skip to 2:35 you can still clearly see that I do take damage from Hazard's Cataclysm, I just have a lot of health which allows me to heal up.

I've also seen a lot of people ignore the massive amount of counters elemental defense has.
-Poison.
-Raw spell.
-Basically any powder special on armor.
-Neutral damage (Stinger).
-Melee (Which basically ignores it completely).

Just cut out the ability of people to use non-tank mythics in tank builds, And we'll be fine.

And about Morph-Stardust, Sure it's easy to get, BUT IS IT EASY TO GET WITH GOOD IDs?
A good Morph-Stardust is about legendary item tier, But do people even consider how bad a normal Morph-Stardust is?
The ID possibilities and ranges are so huge which basically makes it really hard to get a good one, Even harder than it would be to get a high-level legendary, Sure it's set item tier, The helmet itself is common, But with good IDs? Not very much.

That's all from me.

~Mutton