Are Element Tanks Balanced?

I meant the weapons you get as drops from the orange Wybel boss altar. Sorry, I should have made that more clear.

 

I think he means Braker/Stinger etc...

 

I'm pretty sure he was referring to the items from the Orange Wybel...

EDIT: I was correction-sniped.

 

I think they are talking about Orange Wybel drops

 

Scroll up...

 

That moment when you were sniped like 4 times.

 

PvE-wise, elemental tanks aren't overpowered. Most mobs in the game do neutral damage, so as long as you have decent health, having strong elemental defenses is unnecessary (unless if you have extreme elemental weaknesses). PvP-wise, I'm not the best one to ask because I haven't done pvp since before the Gavel update. PvP in general is just so broken at this point that instead of nerfing specific items or builds, they should just do a complete overall. For elemental tanks, I guess you could just counter with poison/thorns, but that's a whole other issue.

 

I think this is another, much greater problem than the elemental tank problem. In terms of skill point volume, rainbow items outclass mono-element items by a factor of five.

For example, compare Prism to Reminder. Reminder gives +8 Intelligence with no other boosts or nerfs. Prism gives up to +4 in every stat and gives massive buffs to elemental defense on top of that. Sure the requirements are high, but the high skill point bonus and existence of flexible items such as Vaward and Prowess makes this a non-issue.

You can also compare Third Eye and Morph Stardust. Third Eye gives up to +10 Intelligence and 4/4s mana regen. Morph stardust also gives mana regen and gives five times as many skill points and has good defenses for only a slightly higher skill point cost. This makes it very easy to choose morph stardust over third eye when making a build.

My point is, when making a build, it's almost always better to use rainbow items than mono-element items because they almost always give more skill points and almost always give better elemental defenses. There's really no contest and I think that's a problem. Either mono-element items need to be stronger or rainbow items need to give weaker bonuses.

 

Then using archer would be more effective than using fly hacks.

 

Infused Hive Wand: 150-250 damage, fast attack speed. Avg 200 damage*2.5= 500 dps
Bonder: 200-450 damage, slow attack speed. Avg 375 damage*1.5=562.5*.8= 450 dps

Infused Hive Spear: 250-400 damage, normal attack speed. Avg 325 damage*2.05= 666.25 dps(+20% element damage)
Braker: 300-600 damage, slow attack speed. Avg 450 damage*1.5= 675 dps(12% element damage avg)

Infused Hive Dagger: 200-300 damage, very fast attack speed. Avg 250 damage*3.1= 775 dps
Slider: 175-350 damage, very fast attack speed -15 raw. Avg 247.5 damage*3.1= 767.25 dps

Infused Hive Bow: 400-600 damage, normal attack speed. Avg 500 damage*2.05= 1025 dps
Stinger: 1600-2000 damage, super slow attack speed. Avg 1800 damage*.51= 918 dps

 

This but for weapons its the opposite because its significantly easier to boost the damage of 1 element than multiple.

 

yes you can have cata builds that have 6-10k health but you need max sp items near max morph stardust with 2/4 mr 20 prisms and max paradox to run the proper tank build morph gravity gem para and cata

 

you fool! giving me the option to select 2 choices allows me to create a Paradox!! HAHAHAHAHA

EDIT: also as someone who uses a rainbow tank, I would like to clerify that they are SLIGHTLY overpowered, adding only the option of plain overpowered is too much, because if everyone selects it, it means you could nerf it more than it needs to be. and my reasoning of it being slightly overpowered is the fact that plenty of people can beat me at pvp when im using a rainbow tank, its not enough to where i get a 100% win rate. if someone actually makes a decent build, they arent that hard to take out, just time consuming

 

Infused Hive Wand: 150-250 damage, fast attack speed. Avg 200 damage*2.5= 500 dps
Bonder: 200-450 damage, slow attack speed. Avg 375 damage*1.5=562.5*.8= 450 dps
Wybel Ivory Wand: 125-170 damage, normal attack speed. Avg 147.5 damage*2.05=302.38 dps

Braker: 300-600 damage, slow attack speed. Avg 450 damage*1.5= 675 dps
Infused Hive Spear: 250-400 damage, normal attack speed. Avg 325 damage*2.05= 666.25 dps
Wybel Horn Spear: 240-310 damage, slow attack speed. Avg 275 damage*1.5= 412.5 dps

Infused Hive Dagger: 200-300 damage, very fast attack speed. Avg 250 damage*3.1= 775 dps
Slider: 175-350 damage, very fast attack speed -15 raw. Avg 247.5 damage*3.1= 767.25 dps
Wybel Tooth Dagger: 170-220 damage, fast attack speed. Avg 195 damage*2.5= 487.5 dps

Infused Hive Bow: 400-600 damage, normal attack speed. Avg 500 damage*2.05= 1025 dps
Stinger: 1600-2000 damage, super slow attack speed. Avg 1800 damage*.51= 918 dps
Wybel Fluff Bow: 410-490 damage, slow attack speed. Avg 450 damage*1.5= 675 dps

So Braker is slightly better than Hive spear, but hive is better than the other three

 

Minding that Braker gives less element damage than Hive Spear and has the penalties on it, as well as lower overall spell damage due to the attack speed(even with the 25% ID, the multiplier from Slow to Normal dwarfs it).

 

If Morph-Stardust is nerfed, it should be the elemental defense or even the mana regen, nerfing the skill points given by Stardust would cause an outrage like no other, more than the Gravity nerf.
Even though I use it, the opposition against it is reasonable, it's essentially the ultimate archetype of helmets, a jack-of-all-trades + some, if you will.

Time and time again, I've heard many say that the formula defense itself is at fault, and I think they have a point.
It's not that the items themselves are OP (for the most part), it's that these items unintentionally exploit the current system, in a way.

I don't how to explain it exactly, but you could say that elemental defense has become such a necessity, that even if your build just as so touches into negative elemental defense, you will be heavily criticized. (I'm probably being hyperbolic about it, but that's how I've seen it go at least)
Most glass cannon builds have gone into obscurity because of the rise of rainbow builds. (Except anything involving Cataclysm, because the meta will always be Cataclysm's bitch)

And about the items themselves, they're not exactly OP, but I think they've become such a necessity because they're so useful for so many situations, that anything else is seen as lackluster. (*Insert hormone-fueled rant about not buffing enough items without including evidence*)

Anyways, I think it has to do with how useful Not OP these items are compared to everything else, and that the current system may be pretty fucky with how it calculates stuff, I'm not a professional at this stuff, but that's my 2 cents.
God I can't wait for code refactor.

 

Oh one more thing:

Melee builds completely outperform Raw Damage Melee builds in fighting Qira/Element Tanks damage-wise despite that being what Raw Damage is intended to perform comparatively well against. Not to mention that they are significantly better at maintaining their defensive capabilities and mobility at the same time.

^ So Yeah it's really just the System.

 

Also, do not add or remove any IDs or people will be selling, or trying to sell, old versions for more LE

 

I think Selvut, or someone mentioned that this will be fixed(?)

 

I think the skill points is exactly what makes stardust so overpowered though. If it only gave up to +3 in everything it wouldn't be anywhere near as popular.