1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
Dismiss Notice
Wynncraft, the Minecraft MMORPG. Play it now on your Minecraft client at (IP): play.wynncraft.com. No mods required! Click here for more info...

SPOILER A Review Of 1.19

Discussion in 'Wynncraft' started by Mists of Memory, Dec 19, 2019.

?

What is your opinion of 1.19

  1. The Best Update in Wynn's History

    6 vote(s)
    4.2%
  2. Great

    82 vote(s)
    57.7%
  3. Good

    41 vote(s)
    28.9%
  4. Meh

    11 vote(s)
    7.7%
  5. Bad

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Awful

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. The Worst Update in Wynn's History

    2 vote(s)
    1.4%
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Mists of Memory

    Mists of Memory A man and a mouse and a mint VIP+

    Messages:
    6,526
    Likes Received:
    12,381
    Trophy Points:
    217
    Minecraft:
    These are the first points I’ve seen against my argument that actually make sense, although I disagree on the part where grouping up makes it harder since it’s still a lot faster to run it in a group than it is to run it alone. If you’re grinding, especially for those at higher power levels, speed is probably better than safety since being stronger already gives you a pretty wide safety net. In any case, fair play to you for coming up wih a good argument.

    That said, if the rate of mythics entering the economy increases while the rate at which emeralds enter stays the same, wouldn’t the end results be more likely to be A. A wider gap in prices between well and poorly rolled mythics, and B. Depressed prices overall?

    Also a potential alternative solution would be to add untradable weapons that are near or at the power level of mythics, but can only drop exclusively from the dungeon. So basically dungeon weapons, but actually good and with random rolls. Or maybe temporary power boosts that don’t affect mythics but that lower the gap between legendarys and mythics (as there are no fabled weapons yet).
     
    Druser and hppeng like this.
  2. enecks

    enecks Meemee profet, daily shitposter HERO

    Messages:
    555
    Likes Received:
    930
    Trophy Points:
    91
    Minecraft:
    aledar dies. bad update
     
  3. Druser

    Druser Heavy Melee time HERO

    Messages:
    4,814
    Likes Received:
    6,895
    Trophy Points:
    154
    Guild:
    Minecraft:
    dungeon drop items moment
     
  4. OolongTeaa

    OolongTeaa Retired Master of Resale HERO

    Messages:
    1,651
    Likes Received:
    246
    Trophy Points:
    67
    Guild:
    Minecraft:
    So the issues that you have with the high rarity of mythics is
    1. Limits endgame play
    2. Too luck based

    I already disproved 1 in my earlier post (TLDR: You can do all content without mythics)

    If you make mythics as common as you say (10% chance from dungeons) that would make them on par with fableds. This would just make most mythics literally worthless and the best rolled mythics worth a shit ton (what you said was option A). This doesn't change anything with the value of items, as now, you just shifted the role of high value item from mythics to high roll mythics. Incidentally, this would ALSO be based on RNG, and would just make people angry while fixing nothing

    I'm not saying the economy is perfect, just saying that your ideas are not solutions
     
    Druser likes this.
  5. Spinel

    Spinel Previously Bayo

    Messages:
    1,451
    Likes Received:
    2,415
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Guild:
    Minecraft:
    This line alone earned you a like from me

    Anyway, I agree with most of this. This is probably my favorite update in a while, although my biggest disappointment was with the SE itself. There’s only 4 quests in the area, 5 if you count Hunter’s Calling, but I don’t. One of which is extremely short and should’ve been a secret discovery. Then there’s the 10 discoveries, which are cool. After you’ve done all that, there’s exactly 3 things you can do here that you can’t do anywhere else: Visit the Tol rune, grind Dernic materials, and do EO. Yeah, the replayability in this area is next to none. At least Corkus had a gauntlet challenge and some boss altars...I know that quality > quantity and one tends to suffer because of the other, but still, you miss 100% of the shots you don’t take. The Silent Expanse, as of right now, feels...unfinished, for a lack of a better word, and I hope that if we don’t get the real Dern update anytime soon, it’s revisited in the near future. The area has so much potential that could be expanded upon.
     
    Druser likes this.
  6. Mists of Memory

    Mists of Memory A man and a mouse and a mint VIP+

    Messages:
    6,526
    Likes Received:
    12,381
    Trophy Points:
    217
    Minecraft:
    Right, which is why everyone who affords mythics also never uses them. I'm not saying that content is impossible without mythics (Disregarding Major IDs, which count as content and are at least partially locked behind Mythics). I'm saying that it's a lot more difficult and time consuming.

    Here's a nice graph comparing 12 mythics to their closest legendary counterparts.
    upload_2019-12-20_23-12-41.png
    The blue bars represent the mythics, and the red represent their closest legendary counterpart. All of them are powdered with their respective Element, besides Cascade, which has 3 T3 thunders to maximize the damage boost, and Singularity, which has three of each element.
    This data was collected using numbers for spin attack, bomb arrow, meteor and uppercut, respectively.
    Right off the bat, it's obvious that every single mythic outdamages their legendary counterpart. By a lot. The gap between Nepta and Lament is the smallest, with Lament having 5.6% more damage. The largest difference is between Wick and Thrundacrack, with a damage difference of over 114%. On average, each mythic does more than 48% more damage than it's legendary counterpart, and even excluding Thrundacrack as an outlier, there's still a 42% difference.

    Hell, the ONLY two weapons that actually reaches the damage levels of the mythics of the same weapon type are Alka Cometflinger and Wick. And they're both seriously outclassed by their mythic counterparts.
    None of this is even touching on the fact that Lament, a support wand based around heal, outdamages Nepta, an offensive glass cannon wand. Or the fact that Guardian outdamages Ignition despite it being a tank weapon. Or the fact that I intentionally included both of those, and excluded cataclysm, to lower the overall damage gap.

    This also doesn't talk about the fact that 6, and potentially 7, Major IDs are exclusively found on Mythics, which means if you want to create a build around those major IDs, you need those Mythics. Which means that, depending on your definition of content, there is actually content literally locked behind Mythics. If your definition of content includes making and testing builds, then there is definitely content locked behind Mythics. If you're definition of new content includes major IDs, then that's also contentlocked behind Mythics.

    And sure, there are full builds that can gap the bridge between Mythics and Legendaries. Raw heavy melee, especially, seems to be the new fashion. But those builds are outlier cases of legendary weapons reaching mythic level power, while for mythics users, that power is both the norm and accessible on a much wider variety of builds. And again, if you consider builds content, you once again reach another point where non-mythic users are locked out of content.
    How, exactly? First, the power disparity of mythics is by and large focused on their base damage. For something like Weathered, for example, there are literally no randomly rolled damage boosts; that power comes from the base damage, meaning even a terribly rolled one can outdamage a god-rolled Slider. And even for weapons that do, such as Thrundacrack, the difference between an uppercut with a max-rolled Thunder damage boost and a min rolled thunder damage boost is 1,016 damage. Is that a decent amount? Yes. Is it worse than halving your damage by switching to Wick? No.

    Second off, if getting a poorly rolled mythic from the outlook would make you angry, then what about receiving a poorly rolled mythic from your 3000th chest? I feel like that would make me angrier, if anything, since there's no way to tell when you can get your next one. You could open 6000 more, only to find a crappy Boreal. At least with my system, there would be a defined path to get a mythic.

    Third, It's a Mythic. I don't think most people are going to care if it's badly rolled; It's still a Mythic. It's hard to have a bad day if it includes a mythic.
    If Fabled weapons existed and dropped from the dungeon with a similar power level to mythics, I would be a lot more okay with the current offering from the EO. But they don't.


    That's probably because I'm not trying to solve the economy. I'm trying to solve power progression. Having the worst, average, and best items ALL drop at their highest rates from a single activity that involves little to no combat or difficulty, while making it drop at much lower rates from the focus of the entire update and the hardest activity in the game? That's not a good design.

    Right, it's obvious we're not going to change each other's minds, so let me ask you a question: How many hours, on average, does it take to find a Mythic from loot running? Not just for you, for everyone on the server who actively loot runs. I'm going somewhere with this
     
    StoopidDog, ReReverse and IceBear like this.
  7. OolongTeaa

    OolongTeaa Retired Master of Resale HERO

    Messages:
    1,651
    Likes Received:
    246
    Trophy Points:
    67
    Guild:
    Minecraft:
    Sure mythics do more damage, but does it really matter when you can do everything with other weapons?

    Building also requires skill. you are perfectly fine doing all content with say, a black build if you do it right. Hive weapons are also completely fine for doing every piece of content in the game. Ignition doesn't do more damage than Guardian. You do not NEED mythics to do anything, and your argument is that you would LIKE to have them. Having items that most players cannot have is not a bad thing for a game, as they offer "hardcore" players something to strive for. Crafted items also offer good damage with respect to mythics, and they are a route you can take if you don't like rng.

    Sure, you could clear a dungeon in 10mins rather than 15mins if you had cata over black, but in reality this doesn't make a difference to most players.

    For major ids, this was always meant to be a gimmick feature more than something actually useful. You can still build a good tank without guardian, and ignis doesn't really provide anything that potions or a good healer in your group cannot. Most build defining majors are on fableds, which I believe was intentional.

    Maybe badly worded on my part, but you are only thinking about "casual" players like yourself here. I'm saying players that already have a mythic would be irked by this, as now the mythics they have (unless they have a godly roll) are now worthless. You would have a mythic, sure, but so would literally every endgame player on the server. If you wanted to get rich you would still have to rely on rng to get good rolls.

    Except the only reason people are happy to get a mythic is because its so rare. Would you be happy to get a legendary? No, because its so common that it has no value. I'll say it again, if you make mythics have a high drop chance, they will be worth nothing, both economically and in terms of perceived value.

    I've never lootrunned so I have a lack of expertise in that area. However, just going through a run from 1-105 on a class would give you a good starting base of le if you wanted to get a mythic. As someone who resells, I'd say that i'd take you around a month to build from 1stx to 4stx if you're smart enough. The more le you have, the faster it would grow.

    Unfortunately, you're still thinking about "casual players" (people with maybe a couple of 100 classes). However, you fail to see the impact that this change would have on "hardcore" players that have been around for a long time or play the game the most. From a game developer standpoint, you DO NOT alienate your most dedicated playerbase in a small game. Sure, giving mythics to everyone would make some players happy for a bit, but the backlash is definitely not worth it.

    This change would kill the market that maybe you don't care about, but many of us do. Please don't go around suggesting things like this without some knowledge about how the economy works and how much time is put into obtaining these items.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2019
  8. inigbamL

    inigbamL Well-Known Adventurer

    Messages:
    78
    Likes Received:
    44
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Minecraft:
    Him and Lucio deserved a much more painful death for the 45 lines of text they force you to read through.
     
    enecks likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.