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World [110+ Supporters, 95.7% Approval, Salted Approved] Improved Pvp [ Includes Demonstration ]

Discussion in 'General Suggestions' started by Novalescent, Jun 8, 2020.

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Do you like these proposals?

  1. Yes!

    118 vote(s)
    95.2%
  2. Nope.

    6 vote(s)
    4.8%
  1. Novalescent

    Novalescent Wynncraft Systematic Recreation Developer VIP+

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    Alright, big suggestion #2 in this suggestion spree!

    Now we’re starting to get into the good and objectively debatable topics. I’m somewhat anxious and excited to see what people will think of these next ones. I expect refutes and such, but that comes with the territory.

    These next few suggestion posts are going to be focused on improvements to various, old aspects of Wynncraft. So, these are going to look more like essays and be much longer unfortunately. I’ve also been running low on steam lately, so these might be a bit lower quality than usual.

    Alright, enough prolonging this post, as this script is already WAY too long!

    Wynncraft is known for its PvE aspect of the game, as it is the most supported and well-developed side of this game. However, its other side, PvP, has been left in the dirt for quite some time now.
    Now I’m not blind to the fact that Hunted Mode exists, and it is an improvement to PvP objectively. However, it has its flaws that generally make it an undesirable mode by most players who aren’t grinding professions 24/7 or who aren’t profession(al) hunters. Add on to it the Nether being pretty much abandoned and one-shot PvP (Although Wynncraft never was designed with the idea to support PvP), and you have a pretty bad situation in your hands.

    The sad part about this situation is that after testing this myself and with other players, if done properly, Wynncraft PvP is probably some of the most fun and chaotic (in a good way) PvP I’ve done in a long while! Not to mention that there are quite a few players in the community who would love a taste of real, balanced, skilled PvP in Wynncraft. I’d argue that even those who have barely had any real PvP would say “Okay, this is pretty fun.”

    So, let’s get into some ideas on how to Improve PvP. The goal of this suggestion is to make PvP more fun and usable for everyone, even if it does mean sacrificing some of its original benefits. This is going to be a long one since this is essentially revamping PvP in Wynncraft.

    To start us off, let’s start with the usual short, repetitive, quick-edited video that demonstrates what PvP and its results could be if done to its full potential.


    (Slightly exaggerated…)​

    Alright so now that I have (hopefully) have your attention, let’s go over these ideas.

    PvP Balancing

    [​IMG]

    Alright, so before we can even dive into the content changes and additions, we have to establish a fundamental baseline for improving PvP, which is going to be balancing.

    It’s very obvious to many that in the game’s current state, PvP is extremely unbalanced due to the amount of items and builds that exist, as well as the power of each class. In most cases, it’s a one-shot fest, and essentially whoever gets the first hit off wins. It’s not very fun, too fast, and obviously too broken. That said, we have to go and balance the important aspects of Wynncraft’s combat to support PvP.

    So, may I present you with a PvP Changelog.

    The list of changes is INCREDIBLY long, and some of it is definitely controversial. However, these changes, for the most part, make PvP more tolerable and enjoyable. Most of these are the same changes that were present during the Wynncon 2020 event, so there are quite a few people who will be familiar with these.
    This entire changelog is only meant to apply in PvP, and they are NOT meant to affect PvE!

    I’ll split these into categories and place them into their own separate spoilers, as these changes combined are several pages long in Google Docs.

    First, we establish a list of baseline, core changes that every other change after this will derive off of. Most of these changes, mainly the first one, was made first in order to determine the rest.

    Core
    • All Damage taken is reduced by 76% (Final damage is reduced, not base. Includes Poison, Thorns, and Reflection)
    • Passive Mana Regeneration is increased by 1
    • Walk Speed is capped at 100%
    • Jump Height has been capped at 4
    • Poison is capped at 9,000/3s
    • Thorns and Reflection are capped at 40%, but its damage is increased by 25% (AFTER damage reduction). It is also no longer reduced by 50% initially.
      Example: Take a 2,000 damage hit (After DR). Multiply it by 25%. That’s the Thorns/Reflection damage.
    • Health regenerates every 10 seconds instead of every 4 seconds
    • TOTAL Health Regen has been soft capped at 2,500 health/10s. Everything beyond that is reduced by 85%.
    • Health Potion Healing is reduced by 25% (There's only 1 healing potion, and that's +4500 HP. It's amount is reduced to +3375 HP)
    • Mana Potion amounts are halved, and are ticked every 2 seconds.
    • Skill Point Potions are 75% less effective (Their SP amounts and their effects are reduced BY 75%)
    • Crafted Consumables are disabled.

    These are the core and most important changes that we've made. Most of the changes after this would not matter or work well without them.

    Damage Taken is reduced to prevent one-shot PvP. I.e. 1-hit Uppercuts, Bomb Arrows, Meteors, Spin Attacks, Auras. We could technically stop there and call it a day, or even up the Damage Reduction to 90%, but that solves about 45% of PvP’s issues.

    The Passive Mana Regeneration increase is probably the most controversial on this list. However, during most fights, quite a few people were drained on mana, and with long-term combat it was hard to keep up with the pace. This increase is general buff to everyone to help make PvP more fun and chaotic.

    Jump Height builds allowed for players to jump over entire spells and hippity hop around to kill everyone from above. This was mostly effectively on caster classes like Shaman and Mage. To prevent this, it has been capped.

    Poison was capped to prevent poison builds from being so rampant, such as Toxoplasmosis builds.

    Thorns and Reflection were capped in terms of chance and damage to prevent cactus builds from being too damaging.

    Walk Speed was capped to prevent super-fast builds dodging everything and weaving in and out of combat like a roadrunner. Especially paired with an Agi build, they were always extremely deadly, annoying, and one-sided.

    Extreme Health Regen builds are nearly invincible combined with loads of Agi and Defense. However, we do know that it's very much possible that they cannot damage as well. So, instead of a hardcap, a softcap has been introduced. This is so that way high HPR builds are at least somewhat killable with enough dedication.

    Health Potions were nerfed because pot spamming in PvP was busted with the reduction to damage taken. This makes it much more of a "breather" potion and not a mid-combat "pop-it-in" potion.


    Next, we address Skill Points, as those are the second baseline before we move onto classes. These are focused on the functionalities of the Skill Point, and not its bonus damage.

    Skill Points

    - All skill point "functionality" caps have been lowered to 120 points. You can still get the additional elemental damage from going to 147 points, but the functionality/bonus of that Skill Point is limited to 120 points, resulting in slower growth!
    - Strength's damage bonus is capped at 60%
    - Dexterity's Crit/Double Damage Chance is capped at 35%
    - Intelligence's Spell Cost Reduction is capped at 55%
    - Defense's Damage Reduction is capped at 40%
    - Agility's Dodge Rate is capped at 37.5%

    These are probably going to be the most controversial.

    In testing, fights were extremely one sided and supported high Intelligence, Agility, Defense, or Dexterity, and this is after the Damage Reduction change is applied. If you don't know, Skill Point percentages in Wynncraft are capped at 80%, which is quite a lot. The reason the skill point growth is capped at 120 instead of just having a solid hard cap at that specific percentage is because rainbow builds would be empowered, and the playing field would not be as leveled. So, growth will be reduced, but you will still get the additional damage from that element as a Skill Point above the "functionality cap".

    Dexterity was capped because double damage was quite absurd, and serves as an indirect nerf to thunder Mythics. Even with a 76% reduction in damage, they hit like a truck.

    Intelligence was capped to help lower the amount of spell spam (Although we still need some), however, spell spam was also indirectly nerfed with the changes to the other Skill Points.

    Defense to prevent invincibility. It seems hard, but keep in mind there is no health cap, so it's quite possible to get a 20k+ tank build.

    The Agility hit may seem hard, but in testing it is still quite useful to still have 50%. And if you want to dodge stuff, just speed around to avoid it.

    Now we move onto the Class Changes. With the two baselines established that solve about 60% of PvP, we can make changes to the classes accordingly to do some fine tuning, or coarse tuning in some cases.

    I know these are the ones that people are going to be studying the most. How we determined balance is we played against each class with one class (We didn’t do same class matchups), and studied the class interactions between the two classes in a stylized duel. We took that data and looked at if some of it was common amongst other interactions, (For example, Shamans consistently destroying all Melees regardless of build and buffs) and studied which observations were unique to certain ones. Based on that data, we balanced each class accordingly to the best of our abilities.

    To help comfort some of your minds about class changes, I’ll put my own thoughts and experiences on these changes.

    Class Changes

    Warrior

    - Bash now has a radius of 3 blocks (from 4)
    - Uppercut now deals 300% + 125% + 125% (from 300% + 50% + 50%) damage, now moves slightly faster, has a slightly bigger hitbox, and takes less time to knock down the target by a substantial amount. However, its range was slightly decreased.
    - Charge now launches you somewhat faster.
    - War Scream now gives 10% Resistance (From 20%)
    - Base Defense reduced to 110% (from 120%)

    Warriors were initially very weak in testing in terms of damage, but also seemingly invincible regardless of build. We gave Uppercut a very nice buff so that way it deals damage and is actually usable, but we also nerfed its overall defense a bit. Even then, Warriors are still very enduring and can take a lot of hits before having to bail out.

    Bash’s radius was reduced somewhat to prevent mass spam of Bash, as it is the most spammable ability out of all of the class abilities.

    Now in STARK contrast to how it feels and plays in PvE, Warrior is bar none the BEST balanced class amongst all 5 classes in terms of power and fun. It just does everything right, and honestly feels like it was made for PvP.
    A skilled warrior can definitely dispatch other classes fairly quickly, and other classes can do just the same if they play correctly. Uppercutting people is no longer a waiting game, and flying around with Charge and Bashing into people is insanely fun. Warrior is honestly some of the most fun PvP I’ve done in a long while, and makes me very confident about these changes.

    Archer

    - Arrow Barrage now deals 22% damage per arrow (from 10%)
    - The Hawkeye Major ID deals 85% damage per arrow (from 100%)
    - Escape now gives Speed II (From Speed III)
    - Bomb Arrow has a radius of 3 blocks (from 5), however now deals 275% damage (from 250%)
    - Arrow Shield's Arrow Rain now deals 100% per arrow (from 250%)

    Archer mains, please don't kill me...

    Bomb arrow is an extremely powerful ability due to its low risk, high reward archetype. However, nerfing the damage wouldn't solve this problem and would probably cause more backlash than expected. So instead, the radius of the blast is now smaller to reward accuracy, so you can still get those high-damage bombs off as long as you can hit them. The damage on Bomb arrow was increased to compensate for the radius decrease and also to counteract some of the PvP Damage Reduction.

    Escape was nerfed in terms of Speed to prevent speed Archers from being rampant.

    Arrow Shield's Arrow Rain was nerfed to prevent mass AoE. Keep in mind that 100 arrows rain down from Arrow Shield and multiple can hit a target, which happens quite often.

    Arrow Barrage was actually really weak in PvP due to the PvP Damage Reduction. We decided to buff it so that way up close it's very dangerous and actually serves out damage really hard.

    Hawkeye was nerfed because… Well it’s a busted ID. But not too hard, as the Damage Reduction already nerfs it hard. It can still be used as a handy 5-arrow sniper barrage from across the map however. :)


    In terms of gameplay and balance, Archer feels solid. In most interactions, it definitely felt like it required skill to beat an archer, or for an archer to beat someone. Surprisingly, Escape isn’t that powerful of a mobility due to its falling time, so you can quickly dispatch an Archer if you catch up to them, or predict where they’re going to escape to next. Most classes have a powerful movement skill, so they should be able to catch up.

    Mage

    - Heal now heals for 5% + 2.5% + 2.5% Health, and its water conversion has been reduced to .33% per point.

    - Teleport now has a base range of 10 blocks. Consecutive teleporting will start to reduce TP distances (10 -> 9 -> 7 -> 5 -> 4 blocks). To reset the reduction, you cannot teleport for 3 seconds.

    - Meteor falls much faster and has an AoE radius of 5 blocks, but its afterburn damage has been reduced to 100% (from 125%) and its radius reduced to 6 blocks (from 10)

    - Ice Snake has a slightly shorter distance

    Heal combined with Teleport is insanely strong. With Teleport being one of the strongest, if not THE strongest movement skill for PvP in the game right now, Mages could very easily TP out of mid combat and re-heal themselves back to full health with a few clicks, or cause plenty of disorientation with consecutive Teleports. This is obviously insanely unfair and annoying, as no other class can re-heal themselves this quickly, nor disorient this much.

    So, both Heal and Teleport were nerfed to prevent this sort of cheesing and to reduce its ability to strafe. However, we did make it so Meteor fell faster to help Mages get some hits in, but had to reduce its afterburn damage in compensation.

    Even with these nerfs, Mage is still very powerful and really does come down to the wire when playing against it. The more one-sided interactions are specifically the melee classes, Assassin and Warrior, as they lack the range that Mage has, and continuous strafing hurts them. If you are able to however, you can catch them if a Mage is unwise.

    However, I wouldn’t say that Mage is that fun to play against as an Assassin...

    Assassin

    - Spin Attack now deals 130% damage (from 150%), blinds for 1 second, applies Slowness IV for 2 seconds, and has a radius of 4 blocks (from 5)
    - Vanish now gives 65% damage bonus (from 80%), however it no longer saps mana (It still halts Passive Mana Regeneration however), and the Mana Regen ID is able to tick through Vanish. However the amount of Mana Regen is halved while vanished.
    - Multihit’s range has been reduced to 4 blocks (from 5)
    - Weathered’s Major ID, Roving Assassin, now grants you 8 seconds of Vanish, and reduces your next spell casted while vanished by 1 mana (Not applicable for Vanish costs).

    Please don't hurt me. Understand that Assassin is my main class too!

    Spin spam is obviously busted, which is why nerfs were in order. These changes were to promote more risky closeup gameplay, as it was fairly easy to just spin from a fairly safe distance and freeze everyone in place. However, Spin Attack is still powerful combined with Vanish, even though it was nerfed, and the Slowness is now 2 seconds instead of 1.

    Speaking of Vanish, it was actually nerfed in terms of damage, then buffed substantially in terms of Mana. In PvP, most Assassins will find themselves constantly vanishing and having their mana be sapped, unable to regain any as well as they most likely skip the Mana Regen tick, and even if they don’t, the mana sap will typically drain you of most of your mana, leaving you with nothing to perform combos with. I tested this with 8/4s Mana Regen, and it really was... f**king rough out there.

    In response to these Vanish changes, Weathered’s Major ID was changed so that it isn’t irrelevant, and is still usable and possibly now even better for PvP than it once was.


    Now for where it lacks in mana and possibly sick air combos, Assassin is definitely one of the more balanced and fun classes to play in PvP. It’s probably second to Warrior in terms of these aspects. I’m an Assassin main myself, and I absolutely love pulling off so many cool combos with Vanish, Multihit, and Spin Attack. The extra mana regen combined with the easier mana management for Vanish makes the gameplay really fast paced and really fun. I’m no longer struggling to keep my mana up to perform combos, and I’m able to consistently pull off combos such as the midair double Multihit-Spin Attack air combo. And yes, that is a combo.

    Shaman
    - Totem healing is capped at +850/s and no longer deals damage over time, however the Totem’s launch speed has been increased so it arrives at its destination faster.
    - Haul pulls slightly less
    - Aura's can no longer pull nor imprison players, its radius decreased to 12 (from 15), and its damage reduced to 175%. However, the growth speed of Aura is faster.
    - Uproot now has a reduced mana cost of 5 (from 6)
    - Reduced Shaman’s base defense to 45%

    Yes, Aura pull and prison being yeeted is a huge hit, but in testing, Aura’s stunlock capabilities were through the roof, making melees completely obsolete to fight against them, and allowing them to camp inside their totem for hours on end.

    However, we compensate this with a faster growth radius to make hitting Aura much quicker. While they may not hold up strong in single-target combat, they are excellent in multi-target combat, and they are extremely anti-assassin (Meaning they can wipe them off the globe).

    The idea behind this is to encourage Shamans to use Uproot to pull enemies into their totems in order to Aura them down. Uproot is another strong CC spell, and combined with Aura it can be very powerful to take on distanced enemies, such as Mages and Archers.

    I haven’t played Shaman much as it isn’t really a class that I like to play often. However, I have played up against a few Shamans as an Assassin, and I can easily say that if you’re unwise, you can easily get demolished by Aura and the likes. However, Shaman is definitely weaker to ranged classes and ranged combat as a whole.

    Some of you may like these changes, while some of you may think otherwise and perhaps have better ideas. I won’t say these are perfect, but they definitely make PvP much more pleasant. Either way, I’d love to hear your feedback about these!

    Hunted Mode Changes

    [​IMG]

    I think most of you saw this coming from a mile away.

    Hunted Mode right now is in a state of disarray. There are quite a few flaws with it that make it a toxic mode, and it’s not very fun for most players who use it. However, it is a mode that has a “risk-reward” archetype, and that is a part of it that I’d like to keep to the best of my abilities while still making it more viable for use for other players.

    First thing we have to do is integrate the PvP changes into Hunted Mode without interrupting the PvE side of things. This is pretty simple to do actually:
    When a player is attacked by another player in Hunted Mode, both players are tagged for PvP. This will instantly apply the PvP balancing changes to both players, and they will last for as long as the player is tagged for PvP. The tag expires after 15 seconds of non-PVP combat, or if they enter a safe zone.
    Keep in mind that this tag applies BEFORE the damage is taken, so that way the PvP damage reduction can apply.

    [​IMG]

    Alright we got tagging covered, so let’s dive into the big change for Hunted Mode: Drops.
    In Hunted Mode as of right now, you have a chance to drop your IDed and unIDed items for players to pick up. Now the majority of normal players don’t really like this much, seeing as they could lose some of their valuable gear. And on the flip side, Hunters enjoy this as they have been able to pick up some quality items from player kills.
    Now remember what I said at the beginning: This suggestion is aimed at making PvP more fun, even if it means dropping some of its original benefits. Unfortunately, this is going to have to apply to Hunted Mode somewhat.

    [​IMG]
    (These are sample numbers)

    The big proposed change here is players will no longer drop their IDed items, but still drop a portion of their unIDed items, Emeralds, and Materials/Ingredients. This makes it so you can still get items out of your kills, but players still get to keep their actual gear. This also allows you to interrupt any possible lootrunners, and still disrupt a Profer’s gathering time.

    Alright so that’s fine I guess, but is that it? lol no.

    A bit more minor, but another important change is that Hunters can steal up to 5% of a player’s total Experience Bar for that level. The max amount that they can steal is equivalent to 5% of their own Experience Bar. You also aren’t able to de-level from losing experience, you can’t steal from players 5 levels from your level, and you only lose experience from the level you are currently on. And at level 106, you aren’t de-leveled, nor do you actually lose any experience.
    What does this bring in? Well this allows for Hunted Mode to be an alternative, possibly a faster way of gaining experience. Hunting for Experience at lower levels isn’t particularly effective, but hunting at higher levels, 80s, 90s, and even the 100s, is a viable idea. It would allow you to level off of other people, and bring in another way for risky leveling.

    The final, minor change I propose is is being that players will no longer lose Soul Points when they die to a Hunted Mode player. This is to allow for players to continuously fight without having to worry about their soul points being lost.

    These changes combined make PvP more loss-friendly. Experience is definitely a loss, but not a huge one like losing your items and that can be quickly made up for. Hunters can still also disrupt profession gatherers, and even gain some other loot from unsuspecting players in Hunted Mode.
    With Hunted Mode being more loss-friendly, this means that more players would be alright with going into Hunted Mode. They can take more precautions to not lose many of their valuables now. This would in turn encourage more cool community PvP events and scenarios. Imagine a 50-man battle in the fields of Detlas, or 2 large teams of players going against each other head-to-head to settle a score! Oh wait, that’s guilds. (Hmm…) Either way, it would be both an awesome event to be a part of, and a very cool source of entertainment for spectators.

    The next part we have to address about Hunted Mode are the Bonuses, and like the Drops, they’re gonna have to take a hit.

    [​IMG]
    (WAIT WHERE IS GATHERING XP!?!??!!?)

    Hunted Mode will no longer give Gathering XP bonus. This, of course, hurts the Profession Community and pretty much makes it useless amongst the majority of them. But don’t worry, I have another way to make up for it that I will discuss later.
    On the flip side however, Hunted Mode will give you an increase in Mob XP to 70%! This is to make up for the losses you might have in your Hunted Mode battles, and make it a reasonable bonus to keep around.

    So why change these? The reason why Hunted Mode is used the most right now is due to the Gathering XP bonus you get from it. This is mainly used amongst the Profession community, which in turn bred Profession Hunters, people who hunted down Profession Gathers in Hunted Mode and kill them. This created an environment of toxicity amongst both gathers and hunters. I’m not going to go into an entire rant over Professions, but due to its state right now, Hunted Mode’s Gathering XP bonus is too good to pass up, even for the risks it carries. So, people will use it all the time due to it. To resolve this issue, we have to remove it and replace it with something different.

    Which leads us to the final section of this suggestion.

    Battlegrounds

    [​IMG]
    I think most people will like this. Maybe.

    Improving PvP would also come with a feature similar to the Nether, but team-based and more game oriented: Battlegrounds.

    For those who don’t know what these are, Battlegrounds are a common feature in MMOs, where Players are split into teams, usually 2, and duke it out on a large map. This can be either Team Deathmatch, Capture the Flag, Domination, and so on. Team-based gamemodes essentially.
    Adding Battlegrounds to Wynncraft will allow for another form of safe, fun PvP, as well as the ability for more team-based PvP. Alone, I think it’s a nice idea that should be implemented alongside proper balancing.

    But what else would it provide for us? Fun only stretches so far.
    Well, first we have the “Ranking” System. Well, not really. Let me explain.
    Players who do Battlegrounds will earn Ranking points. You can call this whatever: ELO, SR, LP, etc. All players will start at 0 Ranking points at the start of each week, and there are no “brackets” or “tiers.”
    To gain Ranking points, you simply have to play. You gain points by winning, losing, being the MVP of a match, and killing players. These methods are ordered in amounts gained from largest to smallest, and you cannot lose Ranking points either.
    The system is set up to where players who don’t have Mythics and/or cannot get many wins can still earn a fair amount of Ranking Points simply by putting in more work. There is a fair power difference between someone who has a mythic and who doesn’t, and those who do have mythics will be able to gain points faster than someone who doesn’t.

    [​IMG]

    So what will these Ranking Points do? Well, your points will serve as both your monthly rank and your battleground currency.
    At the end of each week, your current Ranking Points are reset to 0, and you are given Battleground currency based on how much you have. The total amount of Ranking points you gained are also added onto your Monthly rank, which is a simple leaderboard system determining who has played the most, and the leaderboard is reset each month.
    What can you buy with your Battleground currency? Well, rewards of course. The list can obviously be expanded upon, but for example, you can trade them in for the following rewards:
    • Emeralds
    • Cosmetic Crates
    • Gathering Potions
    Alright it’s obvious I want to talk about that last one.
    Using Battleground currency, you can purchase Gathering Potions, which are obviously potions that will increase your Gathering XP/Speed amounts by a certain percentage, with the highest potion giving you +40%. This is to help make up for the Gathering XP loss from Hunted Mode.
    That’s fine and dandy and all, but what about the 80% other people who don’t want to PvP for this useless potion that gives us less Gathering XP than the original Hunted Mode did?

    Well on the other side of the playing field, with the Hunted Mode bonus gone, we can now bring in Gathering Ingredients, which of course are ingredients that grant you bonus Gathering XP/Speed, and are found in the open world like usual. These would only be used on Armor and Accessories, and NOT consumables. Putting these ingredients on all of your armor with the max possible rolls would grant you a total of +60% Gathering Bonus. Combine that with Potions and you get +100% Gathering XP, which is 50% more than what Hunted Mode originally gave you.

    These changes make up for the Gather XP bonus that Hunted Mode lost, but replacing with a different way to gain that same bonus, yet better, but through a different method. The combined Gathering bonus from ingredients is split up between the two sources so that way dedicated profers would utilize both methods to gain the most Gathering Bonus.
    The ingredients will be something that most people will find out in the world, but the Potions can only be acquired by Battlegrounds. And if the previous PvP balance changes are implemented, I’m confident that people won’t mind acquiring these items, or even playing an extra match or two in the process. ;)

    Conclusion

    Some of you may not know this, but before I joined Wynncraft, I was a hardcore Minecraft PvPer and I worked hard to become a decent fighter. I revive those inner senses once more to advocate for Wynncraft PvP, as it’s definitely a shot that should be taken, and could aid quite a few sides of players in this community.
    This thread's length was probably overkill and I recognize that as I finish writing this. But to be honest, I think improving PvP does need this long of a post to truly flesh it out into what it can become.

    There are quite a few people who helped me create this suggestion, and I’d like to give a shoutout and a hundred thanks to them:

    • AlteredStars (@StarDraco123) - Helping with balance changes
    • Crokee (@Crokee) - Representative for the PvP and the Profession community. Input on this suggestion and its ideas.
    • ha15224 (@K6) - Representative for the PvP and the Profession community. Input on this suggestion and its ideas.
    • Vendenar (@Vendenar) - Profession Hunter (Please don’t be mean to him). Input on ideas and balancing.
    • Pontosaurus (@Pontosaurus) - Profession Hunter (Please don’t be mean to him). Input on ideas and balancing.
    • RaidersBaseLower (@Milan0614) - Battleground terraining & building
    • BonCisco (@BonCisco) - Battleground building
    And following this, a list of all the testers who fought bravely on the battlefields for me to see if this can actually work out, and whom I thank deeply:
    (If I forgot your name, please message me and I'll add...)

    Now, I’m sure some of you are curious on how this whole PvP thing works.
    COINCIDENTALLY, Titans Valor [ANO] is hosting a PvP Tournament, and it’s being hosted on Wynncon, the server where I do most of my work! This would be the perfect opportunity to get acquainted with the new changes and try them out yourself in some nice 1v1s.
    You can check out their event here: https://forums.wynncraft.com/threads/summer-tournaments-team-battles-other-pvp-activities.269462/


    The statement above is no longer valid, as the tournament has passed.

    A HUGE thank you to Titan's Valor for helping me test this suggestion and make the video! :D

    Thanks for reading! And as always, feedback is appreciated.

    Alright, onto the next suggestion...
    I need more builders. Help. Please.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2020
    FinnDestren, Maximdem, Aya and 38 others like this.
  2. NagisaStreams

    NagisaStreams certified idiot Staff Member Moderator QA HERO

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    Minecraft:
    bro you forgot to remove mage

    jokes aside I have found while playing and testing this that it is really fun, its no longer just poison meta and requires actual thinking (much to the dismay of some people) which I know, is very tragic. A lot of work goes into getting builds on here, and as OP as guaranteed max stat mythics (which we have by the way) the game is still fun.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2020
  3. WilliamLin5

    WilliamLin5 Skilled Adventurer HERO

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    Amazing as always!
     
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  4. oinuk

    oinuk volcano spell :relaxed:

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    i'm a little unsure how the hunted pvp tagging would work, considering that the damage reduction, based on this wording, would only apply after a player had been hit. that means that a single divzer or gma bomb arrow in a glassy build could still one shot someone if it was the first time they were hit in the fight, unless i'm misunderstanding something

    also please uppercut base 8 cost
     
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  5. Novalescent

    Novalescent Wynncraft Systematic Recreation Developer VIP+

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    This is somewhat of a underlying codebase thing. Essentially what happens is that the code checks if the player can be hit. If so, tag them. This happens BEFORE the Damage Reduction, so they're already tagged and the Damage Reduction sets in.

    Edited to fix.
     
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  6. NagisaStreams

    NagisaStreams certified idiot Staff Member Moderator QA HERO

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    it doesnt dw, it applies the changes at the same time (if not before) as hit I asked nova and didnt know wtf he meant when he told me but it just do work like dat

    edit: he and I responded same time ignore my post
     
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  7. Pontosaurus

    Pontosaurus aledar cart manufacturer HERO

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    bro i am COOL :sunglasses:
    epic suggestion uwuwuwuuwuwuwuwuwuwuw
     
  8. _Eth3real

    _Eth3real Titans Valor [ANO] Staff Member Moderator HERO

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    Just want to point out that I don't PVP, well I try to then I die and rage quit for 30 minutes before coming back to just die again, but this was really fun. I enjoyed the Battlegrounds part the most, as capture the flag is a lot of fun and Wynn stuff it was better. The reason these battlegrounds are better than say a mineplex capture the point is because your entire build is SO customizable and there are so many different ways to play. So props to you Nova because this was amazing!
     
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  9. _Dazzle

    _Dazzle Survived 50 man EO, 6 Mythics found VIP

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    This suggestion is a nuke. It destroys the existing balance completely and rebuilds it from the ashes of the old in a more sensible, non-one tappy way. Me likey.

    Profession hunters community may indeed not like the changes (I for one like it though since it eliminates the risk of getting shafted by Toxo wielding maniacs at later levels), but now it is possible to get profession XP bonuses on gathering professions much safely, while actually having fun in PvP while getting the ingredients to craft such gear.

    Well suggested as always, I'm honestly surprised why you didn't get offered CT yet.
     
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  10. Lord Saraldar

    Lord Saraldar Fire Archer | grinding more gathering prof xp HERO

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    for profession xp bonus the only thing I am concerned about is the length of the potions,
    at endgame lvling takes fairly long.
    if those potion will last lets say 20 minutes at most, you would still need a lot to lvl up.

    at the pvp testing it felt a bit overpowered for a tank build to get back 50% of their health, given that assassin and archer are able to do good burst damage for killing as a defensive build
     
  11. Emogla3

    Emogla3 nerf shaman

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    It has a Shaman nerf so I like it

    Also yes give me the battlegrounds, the endgame would be so much more fun with actual balanced PvP gamemodes
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2020
  12. Baby Poseidon

    Baby Poseidon Self-Proclaimed Idiot

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    I thonk the mage changes are great, they really stop me from cheesing in pvp constantly. And this is coming from someone who only does mage.
    also: SHAMAN NERFED!!! COME ON LADS, LET'S GET 'EM
     
  13. ZockerCam

    ZockerCam Wynncraft Weeb

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    Nice suggestion. Good balancing
     
  14. Yraw

    Yraw Water Fountain

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    I really like this suggestion, it's super good, but I kind of have a gripe with the +70% xp bonus just for being in hunted. IMO this makes the same probem that happened with prof xp, where just being in hunted give's you some reward. This make's it so it's still more viable to just not kill players in hunted, because killing mobs at a grindspot is much, much easier than trying to get a good matchup with your class. I think it should be changed to where you maybe have to kill a player to get that xp, maybe 70% more mob xp for the next hour if you manage to kill a player in hunted. This way it makes the player want to actually go out and find people, I get that you can steal 5% of the players xp from hunted, but I don't think that's enough of a reward because you're probably already at endgame when you're hunting players, so there's not really a reason to need xp at that point of the game because you got all the content you wanted.
     
  15. Novalescent

    Novalescent Wynncraft Systematic Recreation Developer VIP+

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    Hmm, that might be something I overlooked ya.
    The experience stealing is mainly for the later levels, 80 and above, probably being able to find the most people in the late 90s to 100s range. They're also for the overachievers who want to go beyond 103.
    I do agree that the stealing isn't very appealing to most players, but that was sort of the objective here. This is more appealing to the tryhards of people wanting to level, while also being something a normal player can ignore because dying to a player isn't so scary anymore.

    Perhaps it'd be a good idea to tone down the Mob XP? Would have to do more research perhaps.
     
  16. Yraw

    Yraw Water Fountain

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    Toning down mob xp might be a good idea, maybe you can also get a lootchest when you kill a player so then there would be a reason to lootrun with hunted on
     
  17. Saya

    Saya yeah don't mislead newbies thanks VIP+

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    I've already talked to Nova about how I dislike the direction of the Wynncon PvP changes, but I guess I'll post here...

    The balance changes are similar to how Wynn PvE was created, with more free-form interactions that anyone can feel powerful with. Salted did mention that the combat system in wynn was influenced by super smash bros, after all, and your idea of PvP really follows that. It's like a hack & slash, like URF. As a result, it's not competitive. There's a very low skill ceiling (the most complicated tech is... aiming arrow storm... and utilizing TP well to heal...). Sure, it may fit wynn, but there's so much more that can be done with the wynncraft spell system, like making spin attack a skillshot instead of a 360 degree balance nightmare that will always be over or underpowered. There could be combos beyond uppercanceling, dynamic combat beyond spamming arrow storm/spin attack (extremely obvious in the video), the ability to actually punish mana usage and movement, and a healthy rework of poison to be a complement to builds. Every claim I've seen of this system of PvP having depth just doesn't work. It's not deep because it was designed to be in the spirit of Wynncraft PvE instead of going beyond it to truly be PvP balance. When everyone is the main character, no one is. Trying to make everyone the main character and have MC-like power leads to the balance changes you see here, for better or for worse.

    TL;DR: These changes are very well done, but the direction of them is so painful to watch. Compared to the current lack of any balance whatsoever, of course they look amazing. It's a bit sad how everyone is jumping on the hype train while missing the bigger picture.

    I haven't put in the work to recreate wynncraft combat, so my opinion doesn't have much value. But there's a severe lack of input from people who lack bias, and it really shows.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2020
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  18. Dr Zed

    Dr Zed Famous Adventurer HERO

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    So what exact changes would you do then to make Wynncraft’s PvP better?
     
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  19. Saya

    Saya yeah don't mislead newbies thanks VIP+

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    I'm not here to hijack the thread.
     
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  20. Novalescent

    Novalescent Wynncraft Systematic Recreation Developer VIP+

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    Me and Saya have already talked about the differences in our ideas on how to balance PvP. He had logical points and I did agree with some, although it wasn't the style of balancing I was going for Wynncraft and he seemed to understand.
    So it's all good! I wouldn't like to see someone attacked over disagreeing with something popular.